To all of you (whiners ;))

[Bioskop.Inc]

Its not whining, just expressing disappointment!
Most people are working on a tight budget & want the best bang for their buck, which is understandable.

Having gone through the transition from Film, to SD digital & then HD, and having worked for small production companies to a massive giant like the BBC - there are a few things that became v.clear.

These companies don't go out & buy the next new thing - they take the side of caution. In fact in most cases they hire out the equipment or the cameraman with the equipment. When TV went from SD to HD, none of the cameramen who were hired for the BBC went out & bought a new HD camera. The reason was that they needed to test stuff out first before investing (of course, their investment was for £30k & upwards). Again they were looking for the best bank for their buck - they moaned & moaned & moaned. Some of them took a year to decide which camera to buy & took the hit in camera rentals first.

With DSLRs, a fluke revolution seemed in the offing for low budget filmmakers. It was a fluke & all these companies make high end cameras, so of course they want you to buy them.
People have been banging on about the Black Magic & it looks great, but you know v.3 or v.4 will be the killer & not v.1!
So why keep jumping ship for the next best thing? Its a false economy, unless you have cash burning a hole in your pocket & if you do, rent & test out your options (a few £100 vs. a few £1000).

When i went from Film to SD, i couldn't believe the moire & aliasing - it really bugged me. You learn how to avoid it & if you really can't, no audience really cares or notices.

The best advice (when i was starting out) i ever got from professionals was invest in good glass, as that will serve you for life!

I shoot with a 60D & love it! Best of both worlds for the price - photos & video. Its also got the best hack in Magic Lantern, which will only get better & better.
Soon i want to use a better camera, but i'm not buying one thats for sure, i'll rent one.

I love the whining or should that be practical criticism! Its natural, healthy & lots of fun!
It also shows there's a lot of passion out there from the low budget community & a need for more affordable/better cameras.

[Andrew Reid]

[quote name='Germy1979' timestamp='1351385252' post='20456']So honestly man.. Did you think you were going to condescendingly pop up a 3 page long slap in the face of every aspiring filmmaker on here and not get a response? For starters, "whining" is a form of ventilation for the majority of us here on the forums regarding the overpriced, underperforming products of companies like Canon. We loved the Mark 2. We were loyal for a Mark 3 that kicked its ass... What we got was a 5d mark 2 without moire & aliasing for $1500 more... Along with a cinema line starting at $15,000 picking up its slack. While i agree that no one has to buy their cameras, you don't have to read our ticked off rants about why we're upset that the very demographic that made Canon a filmmaking revolution, has now been priced right the hell out of the equation. And they wonder why their profits have been pounded suddenly... [/quote]

Well put.

It isn't whining, it is customer feedback. Canon blamed their 42% drop in profits on a lot of things - the yen, the Euro, product delays - but not actually the products themselves.

[FilmMan]

Well put Andrew. A company grows with customer buying their products. If there is room to improve, a company needs feedback, aka "whining." The company then needs to satisfy or a competitor will. Consumers have alot more information at their disposal now. People know when companies can do better. Hero 3 is offering 2.7K for $400. BMC is offering alot. Whining is starting to pay off.
[size=8][b]Squeaky wheel gets the grease[/b][/size]

[tomekk]

[quote name='EOSHD' timestamp='1351425075' post='20488']
Well put.

It isn't whining, it is customer feedback. Canon blamed their 42% drop in profits on a lot of things - the yen, the Euro, product delays - but not actually the products themselves.
[/quote]

Customer feedback, yes. Whining - not. There is too much whining in this forum.

[tomekk]

[quote name='FilmMan' timestamp='1351436402' post='20492']
Well put Andrew. A company grows with customer buying their products. If there is room to improve, a company needs feedback, aka "whining." The company then needs to satisfy or a competitor will. Consumers have alot more information at their disposal now. People know when companies can do better. Hero 3 is offering 2.7K for $400. BMC is offering alot. Whining is starting to pay off.
[size=8][b]Squeaky wheel gets the grease[/b][/size]
[/quote]

feedback is not pointless whining which doesn't change anything. The best feedback is direct feedback and this is simply what we are observing now with canon's 42% drop in profits. It's when ppl don't buy because there is something better for the same/lower price. Then you have constructive criticism which is indirect feedback but it only works when direct feedback works.
At the end you have whining, which is pointless and doesn't bring any value to anyone except for the person who's whining (in form of an emotional relief).
While I don't care about it, it wastes my and others time and I care about my time.

[Germy1979]

Head over to personal view then man.... If they don't like it, believe me, it will be removed and you will be personally notified.. Then go buy a product of equal value for less and let us bitch. Then no one will have inconvenienced king tomekk's precious time with our emotional reactions. Problem solved.

[Germy1979]

By the way. It's a forum.. Not everything posted here is supposed to be "constructive"... Sometimes people just like to talk shop, or talk shit about camera manufacturers. whether that progresses into a lucritive picture deal with Paramount is irrelevant.. So your point of view is just that... Your point of view. The buck doesn't stop there man.

[tomekk]

ok, ok I get it. Hopefully you get it too, that excessive whining is not necessary ;), peace.

[GravitateMediaGroup]

tomekk
you have made 12 post here and you are claiming "everybody on eos forums whine"
like I said, this is one of the more peaceful camera discussion forums on the internet

you have put your complaint in the suggestion box, and it has been answered.
the answer is that nobody here cares about you whining about whiners. move along now, thanks.

[tomekk]

gravitatemediagroup

you move along too now. One day maybe you'll understand that 1) "you try to get the most you can for your work" 2) I didn't put any complaint in the suggestion box 3) I don't whine about whiners 4) Canon doesn't care about you whining about canon 5) Nobody cares about you whining about anyone. thanks.

[GravitateMediaGroup]

A. I am an independent videographer/editor, so like I said, I work within a clients budget
B. Your first post was a complaint about whiners
C. You ARE in fact whining about whiners.
D. Canon was my reference, I like Canon products, their nicer line of gear is aimed towards people working with a larger budget.
E. Not one person here has agreed with one post you have made. I'm still trying to understand how your #5 makes sense.


If you don't mind sharing, (and I could really care less if you answer) how old are you?
I would like to have a better understanding of what level of maturity I am dealing with.

I'm guessing I pinched a nerve with the "move along now" comment. lol

Andrew, feel free to close this topic when you are ready, this got old two days ago. lol

[tomekk]

gravitatemediagroup,

You know, basic economy and logic is very different from videography/editing. You have no idea about it, sorry. FWIW If you didn't study it, then don't try to prove you have any idea. Economy is very different to what you think it is, most of you guys have no idea about it. Oh, please stop getting upset. Everyone is good at something, what's wrong with it? Economy is different? No, it's not.
Perfect example is with you trying to convince yourself you don't extract as much money as you can when you sell your products, yet, u didn't have answers to my questions in #6

I'm a noob in a video world but not trying to prove I know better, because I don't. I'm WORSE, much worse than most of you here. I, at least, realize it and listen to ppl who now better when it comes to video.
EOT. My last post. Now ban me if u want, close the topic and move on.

[GravitateMediaGroup]

Lol
You are taking life wayyyy to serious.
How do you know that I don't already have money and the fact that I am content doing something I love to do more so than try and pinch every penny I can get out of somebody. Did you skip over the part where I mentioned "independent"? If I was hired by a company to do their video/editing task, they would be in charge of the greedy side of things. I can make my own price and my own hours, and by choice, I try to undercut the competition. I may get paid less, but more gigs, so compound that mr. Economics. You are trying to put me in the same category as a major corporation that is selling products by the millions, and is by far the dumbest post you have made yet. Does it really bother you THAT much that you can't control people's freedom of speech over the Internet? Do you not have anything better to do than pretend to sound smart and troll forums all day?

[GravitateMediaGroup]

Read your original post, and think of Walmart, and see if what you are saying makes any sense. Good luck

[sanveer]

people, Please ignore tommy here. Its Vitaly masquerading as the tomcat. i would not hold any grudges against him. he is still, genuinely trying to create a get 4-4-4 out of the 8 bit 4-2-0, that is coming out of the GH2.
and, he's not whining. he's genuinely upset ... :P

[Bioskop.Inc]

LOL! That's all the GH2 people screwed!

I think people are genuinely upset too! We're all human & counter criticism just hits that funny bone in all of us.
It seemed that revolutionary equipment for low budget filmmakers was in the pipeline & it still is, kinda, but not as quickly as some would like or had hoped.
Its just not sound business practice for a company to make a sub-£3000 camera with the same specs/quality as their more expensive range.
Canon made a loss in their profits, but they still made a profit. So they're not concerned just yet.
The BlackMagic, when it ships, if it ships, might be a game changer, but its not a 2-in-1 camera & in practice it'll set you back a lot more than the price of the camera. I'm really hoping it does smash the market wide open!

A good comparison example is FCPX - bad when first released, but pretty good now considering the cost.
It will never be an AVID destroyer (hands down the best NLE out there), but it will eventually crap all over Premiere for the price.

We wouldn't be on these forums if we weren't passionate or didn't care.
We want the best equipment for our money & feel hard done by or exasperated that we can't afford what we really want.
RED might be listening?!

[hmcindie]

[quote name='Bioskop.Inc' timestamp='1351511513' post='20532']
but it will eventually crap all over Premiere for the price.
[/quote]

That sounds like Applefanboy talk. In the time it took for FCPX to get the latest patch out, I've already edited about 24 commercials on Premiere. That's a huge mistake Apple made and switching back to get the same features is a no-go.

[XXX]

[quote name='tomekk' timestamp='1351388350' post='20462']
Side note: I also hate that 5dMK3 is not true 1080p. I think canon should put BMCC quality into 5dmk3 body + great low light with FF sensor so I could get the perfect product (price wise: I'd eat current price of the 5dmk3. Although, if it was for 10$ then that would be awesome ;)).
Yeah, it's a shame canon hasn't improved resolution since 5dmk2 and I absolutely hate it. I need FF for wide angles (dark, club shots, ppl dancing, not much space - any ideas ?) (I'm a newbie and was waiting for 5dmk3 and then they didn't deliver :((.
I don't whine on a public forum, though, cause it's a waste of everyones time.
[/quote]
You started a "no whining thread" but whine yourself? So if I got my Freud right, your basically projecting your own shortcoming onto others. Dude, seriously get some help. And puberty is only the beginning, it gets worse, so fast my friend, dial that number...

[Bioskop.Inc]

[quote name='hmcindie' timestamp='1351534465' post='20544']
That sounds like Applefanboy talk. In the time it took for FCPX to get the latest patch out, I've already edited about 24 commercials on Premiere. That's a huge mistake Apple made and switching back to get the same features is a no-go.
[/quote]

Nah, no fan boy here.
I was forced to use FCP5-7 at work & then had to switch to AVID when i did some work for the NHU.
Never encountered Premiere being used in a production company - well a big one anyway.
Never been asked if i could use it either.
AVID is king, but unfortunately its price is also a royal pain in the ass!