Sony drop a bombshell with 4K raw, 180fps and global shutter - here are the Sony F5 and F55!

[markm]

Using 2K how does this beat the BMC except in sensor size. Surely 2K is the only doable option for most of us.

The only advantage I can see is 4K and for me would be way to much money for peripheral gear working in 2k raw is bad enough. I can't even see a reason for TV to use 4K for much of their stuff.

Skyfall was just completed using arri raw. 4k for me is still in the future even if they should bring out 4k TV.

I think if Sony wants to win in the market place then they really need to competitively price this and the media.

[Bioskop.Inc]

HD TV channels in Britain aren't even true 1080, so 2or4k for TV is a distant dream or is it really necessary/possible.
When HD was a possibility for the BBC, only the big programmes filmed in HD & this is still true today - too expensive & time consuming for high turn over TV programmes.

Why TV companies didn't band together to stream through cable is beyond belief - only Virgin saw the future in cable.

[MaxAperture Films]

Will the FS700 be able to send Raw to the new 4K recording module?

[ScreensPro]

Two amazing cameras there... Although i think the overall package prices may bring people back down to earth. Time will tell.

Please note that the F35/Genesis/Ikonoskop use a global sensor too, so this isn't the first digital cinema camera to do so, but i think it is the first 4K output with global sensor.

[Leang]

4K Home Entertainment in the USA is going to be nuts! You better believe there will be many fathers & sons wanting 4K for blah blah Superbowl X... There are conservative suburb laxed out retired men that IF SOLD right will want to watch golf like never before or any sport for that matter. Just wait until bars and pubs start buying those 84inch 4K sets and 4K live streaming starts rolling out steadily.... The point is 4K is coming no matter what and I strongly recommend everyone to jump on the wagon and not worry so much about filmmaking. Curious what Panasonic has up their sleeves... They've been really slow as of late. Probably focusing on proprietary shit as always

[FilmMan]

[quote name='markm' timestamp='1351596864' post='20603']
Using 2K how does this beat the BMC except in sensor size. Surely 2K is the only doable option for most of us.

The only advantage I can see is 4K and for me would be way to much money for peripheral gear working in 2k raw is bad enough. I can't even see a reason for TV to use 4K for much of their stuff.

Skyfall was just completed using arri raw. 4k for me is still in the future even if they should bring out 4k TV.

I think if Sony wants to win in the market place then they really need to competitively price this and the media.
[/quote]

I agree. Sony should price very aggressively. There will be other competition coming up. Take the market when the opportunity is there. Many people already are invested in expensive cameras that will last for years to come. Entice them to drop their equipment and upgrade without hesitation. I like a $15000 price (or cheaper), but if it is in the $25K range then is it worth it? Specs are awesome, but you want to attract the masses. You want people to switch over. Are the specs enough for me? Nope. [u][b]Price[/b][/u] with specs are. Technology changes quickly and more competition will creep up. Wants and needs are two different things. My 2 cents.

[FilmMan]

[url="http://pro.sony.com/bbsccms/assets/files/show/highend/pdf/F5_Camera.pdf"]http://pro.sony.com/bbsccms/assets/files/show/highend/pdf/F5_Camera.pdf[/url]

[TC]

Solid announcement from Sony. But I don't think either are revolutionary. I think they are where people would expect them to be, given the current state of the technology. I feel that Sony are a year or two behind Red on the signal processing side (don't forget the Epic has been around two years now with similar specs). Canon, despite having a good sensor in the C100/300/500, look to be 5 years behind in terms of the electronics and codecs behind the sensor.

[hmcindie]

Global shutter is revolutionary. Hope they can get them to cheaper CMOS cams in time.

[AaronChicago]

So if my calculations are correct, in 6 months a camera will come out with the headline "R.I.P. F5" or "The F5 Killer."

[ScreensPro]

[quote name='TC' timestamp='1351606594' post='20616']
I feel that Sony are a year or two behind Red on the signal processing side (don't forget the Epic has been around two years now with similar specs).
[/quote]

Based on what? On paper (and judging by the F65 footage), the Sony F55 will beat RED on DR, low light, colour rendition, will have a higher native ISO, high FPS, better codec choices and has a CCD sensor. The only tick RED has left is 5K output and the F65 just trumped that with 8K.

Sony are currently ahead of RED in every aspect, with the excepetion of personal choice aspects, eg, ergonomics, customer service etc and possibly price, when the dust settles.

[Omega Broadcast]

We are all going to be watching this event today. Very exciting!

#thenewf

[markm]

[quote name='FilmMan' timestamp='1351605932' post='20614']
I agree. Sony should price very aggressively. There will be other competition coming up. Take the market when the opportunity is there. Many people already are invested in expensive cameras that will last for years to come. Entice them to drop their equipment and upgrade without hesitation. I like a $15000 price (or cheaper), but if it is in the $25K range then is it worth it? Specs are awesome, but you want to attract the masses. You want people to switch over. Are the specs enough for me? Nope. [u][b]Price[/b][/u] with specs are. Technology changes quickly and more competition will creep up. Wants and needs are two different things. My 2 cents.
[/quote]

Yes but seriously I cant think why anyone would spend $15000 when the BMC is a fraction of the price. If you dont need 4K Then what are the advantages apart from ND filters.
Is anyone here going to use 4K or is it just another gadget? I mean if they can shoot skyfall in 2.8K Arri raw uprez it to 4K and show it on IMAX Seriously who here is going to need more than 2.4K from a BMC.
I mean even if you shoot it you will need to render it and colour it as well as a 4K monitor and all the Hard drives you need Will your computer actually be able to play any of it and will you be showing your 4K film at the local multiplex where they will buy a 4K projector for you and show most of the below par hollywood stuff on 4K
If 2K is good enough to be cinema quality on a 40' screen then thats surely all you need? Unless you want to future proof it or you really are going to make a bigger better film than James bond.

I mean if you need 4K Then surely you need to be one of the big boys and if your one of the big boys your going to need £20,000 master primes and a £100,000,000 budget.

Sorry it just seems an absurd camera for the target market but then I expect there are plenty out there with more money than sense and maybe a camera like this is a status symbol rather than a tool.

[Fergutor]

Finnaly!!! Global shutter!!!! Now, to wait for cheaper cameras with it.

[quote name='ScreensPro' timestamp='1351610310' post='20621']
Based on what? On paper (and judging by the F65 footage), the Sony F55 will beat RED on DR, low light, colour rendition, will have a higher native ISO, high FPS, better codec choices [b]and has a CCD sensor.[/b] The only tick RED has left is 5K output and the F65 just trumped that with 8K.

Sony are currently ahead of RED in every aspect, with the excepetion of personal choice aspects, eg, ergonomics, customer service etc and possibly price, when the dust settles.
[/quote]

From where you get that it's a CCD sensor? If it was, then there will be no big news: the thing is that finnaly someone comes with a CMOS with global shutter for this types of cameras (there are already but for other uses). Even Andrew put it in the article.

[OzNimbus]

Would love to see some concrete pricing on the F5. 15 grand seems to be a little pricey for what it is (it's awesome, no doubt.) but with how fast technology is moving...and the fact that BMC can do 2.5k raw for 3 grand.... again, I think 15 is a little too much to ask.

[FilmMan]

The other thing is the Hero 2.7K camera for $400. And of course the BMC. The BMC isn't perfect - sensor size, battery, etc. I don't mind paying a premium for extras that the BMC does not offer but within reason. There will be other competition entering the picture. If Hero can offer 2.7K for $400 and BMC for $3K, then surely, there will be other cameras coming up. Sony needs to price aggressively. I've talked to vendors who joke about Sony. Why? They talk about how many cameras Sony has put out and the "[i]holding value[/i]." Technology changes quickly. People know this. There are needs and then there are wants. Usually the wants are not needed. People get caught up in the hype. Next year the Bigger sensor BMC is coming out. JVC/Panasonic is coming up. Canon is coming up and now needs to rethink their strategy. Leica is in the mix. Red is still very much in the mix and pricing will be a huge factor. Sony has such an opportunity here. Will they play their poker hand correctly?

[FilmMan]

If Sony prices their F5 at $15K then what would be the street price? $12K??? What would a $8K to $9K pricing do? Would it result in the other cameras collecting dust? The ball is in Sony's court. I got to keep my mouth shut about what is coming. Be careful Sony, you are not alone.

[markm]

Looking at the F5 and F55 I think their primary task is to take out the scarlet and epic.

I think this is a bad move as many red owners will switch to a BMC. The real battle Sony should be waging is with the BMC as that will be the big seller. As Black Magic increase their market share and a new 35mm sensor they will be the boys who will clean up.

PS
I think the new Aaton has a global shutter.

[FilmMan]

Read prices from $22K to $50K for the F55?
Read prices from $16K up for the F5?
Read pricing may not be released till February 2013?
Let's see what the end of the day brings. Too funny.

All I can say is [b]Go BMC GO[/b]! [b]$2995 :) [/b]

[b]Spec this, spec that. [/b]

[ScreensPro]

[quote name='Fergutor' timestamp='1351612275' post='20625']
From where you get that it's a CCD sensor?
[/quote]

Sorry, my mistake.... lots of info to take in today.