markm Posted December 3, 2012 Author Share Posted December 3, 2012 Here is a rolling shutter test from a RED Scarlet, which should have a pretty fast readout, probably faster than the BMCC. [url="https://vimeo.com/37522370"]https://vimeo.com/37522370[/url] Do you seriously not see a problem with that? Now, you can say, well I don't pan like that..... Great, as I said right from the start, the BMCC is great for certain 24p narrative work. That's why i've ordered on.... Most of my shots are locked off or with very controlled movement. But if you are shooting an action sequence, a train passing by, busy traffic, POV shots from a car... etc, etc, etc .... You will notice the difference with the F55.You're right. I don't whip. If I did I'd pan slowly and speed it up in post. Bruno WHY use reds lighter versions when you can use proxies and edit You would want to colour correct all of the RAW image and take a master from that.The global shutter is NOT huge Yes its an advancement but certainly not $37000 worthand you know what some of us can live without it. Some of you are really trying to blind with science or what your favourite camera can do. This is what I hate about forums as they destroy the truth in favour of fanboyism and to keep a status quo for Gurus who and manufacturers that pay them off.I feel sorry for the poor indie film makers who listen to those wishing to pull the wool over everyones eyes.The BMC changes the landscape. Get used to it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScreensPro Posted December 3, 2012 Share Posted December 3, 2012 I am used to it.... I have one on order! But you seem to be mistaken about what fanboyism is.... Fanboyism is generally a failure to see the cons of your prefered product and the benefits of other products. I think only one person on this entire article is displaying such traits. I have no allegience to Sony and haven't owned a Sony product since the EX-1. I have a fair chunk of change saved up though and i will probably be looking to move to an Epic or F55 for the 4K and overcrank features that my work sometimes requires. That doesn't make the BMCC (that I will own) any less of a camera and i'm sure I will get lots of use out of it and make lots of cash out of it. But there is no shame in wanting (or needing) more features. If BM come out with a F55/Epic killer, I will rejoice. If not, I will look what is on the market and buy what ticks the most boxes for the best price. Also, what do you mean you'd just pan slowly and speed up in post..... what if there are people in the shot? what if there are cars in the shot? would the viewer accept the reality of a cat running past at 300mph? :lol: I'd love to see you DPing a film like transformers. andy lee 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andy lee Posted December 3, 2012 Share Posted December 3, 2012 its nothing to do with 'pulling the wool over peoples eyes' as you say you just you have no grasp of how this industry works! Workflow is KING - Arri dominate bacause of thisthats a fact.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cameraboy Posted December 3, 2012 Share Posted December 3, 2012 KODAK and FUJI dominates .....not ALEXA , RED or whatever...thats a fact.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruno Posted December 3, 2012 Share Posted December 3, 2012 Bruno WHY use reds lighter versions when you can use proxies and edit You would want to colour correct all of the RAW image and take a master from that.Because it takes up to 5x less disk space with higher quality, and it does come with proxies, something you have to do manually on the BMCC. And because no one grades ALL the footage, you grade after you edit and you only grade what you need, and you don't need to edit raw. If you ask me, this would be equally beneficial to indie filmmakers. I don't have a favourite camera, and I said more than once in this post that an indie filmmaker would gain absolutely nothing in buying an F55 instead of a BMCC, you're just not listening. The F55 however is a different market, BMD will tell you exactly this, they designed the camera for DSLR shooters, not for the Alexa market, so if you can't listen to me, maybe you could listen to them. The fact that one camera is perfect for you doesn't make it perfect for everyone, do we have to elect one camera as the camera to end all cameras, is that the point? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markm Posted December 3, 2012 Author Share Posted December 3, 2012 QUOTEBecause it takes up to 5x less disk space with higher quality,----------------------------------------------------------------------------Yes if you want to colour correct a compressed master I dont care how good red says its compression is. It's still compression.--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------QUOTEand it does come with proxies, something you have to do manually on the BMCC.-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Yes but you dont need an outside recorder do you. Making proxies is the least of your worries on a feature in post production So what you have to pay the editor a few more bob for the proxies BIG DEAL.----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------QUOTEAnd because no one grades ALL the footage, you grade after you edit and you only grade what you need,--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Why do you think I dont understand this? You are the master lecturing me I suppose Even though I done plenty myself.---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------QUOTEand you don't need to edit raw. If you ask me, this would be equally beneficial to indie filmmakers.--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------WHY WOULD ANYONE edit raw???? Stop putting words in my mouth.--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------QUOTEI don't have a favourite camera,-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Maybe you are heavily invested?-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------QUOTEand I said more than once in this post that an indie filmmaker would gain absolutely nothing in buying an F55 instead of a BMCC, you're just not listening. The F55 however is a different market, BMD will tell you exactly this, they designed the camera for DSLR shooters, not for the Alexa market, so if you can't listen to me, maybe you could listen to them.-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------How about listening to the truth which is the BMC shoots RAW so does the F55. SO you get the same picture with BOTH. You're the one not listening.---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------QUOTEThe fact that one camera is perfect for you doesn't make it perfect for everyone, do we have to elect one camera as the camera to end all cameras, is that the point?-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------I never implied that. You're putting words in my mouth again. ANDREWIf you've got nothing to say except sweeping statements Why say anything at all.. We get the point now You want to support the Allexa So no more needs to be said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Germy1979 Posted December 3, 2012 Share Posted December 3, 2012 Aaaaaaa loud noises!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScreensPro Posted December 3, 2012 Share Posted December 3, 2012 the BMC shoots RAW so does the F55. SO you get the same picture with BOTH.----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------I guess the sensor and processor count for zero? As long as you have raw, everything looks the same, right? If the GH2 shot raw, do you think it would look like Alexa? (Even though it's DR is rated at below 12 stops, in raw, compared to Alexa's 14.5). Remember the Red One M? Shouldn't that have the same picture as the Red One MX? They both shoot raw, afterall. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruno Posted December 3, 2012 Share Posted December 3, 2012 "I dont care how good red says its compression is. It's still compression." Never heard of lossless compression, have you? "Making proxies is the least of your worries on a feature in post production So what you have to pay the editor a few more bob for the proxies BIG DEAL." It IS a big deal. Try telling the producer (guy with the money) that you'll show him the last takes as soon as everything finishes transcoding in 2 hours, while he's paying for 150 crew people to sit and wait... "Maybe you are heavily invested?" Nope, not at all, anyone with a BMCC is more invested than I am! "the truth which is the BMC shoots RAW so does the F55. SO you get the same picture with BOTH." Holy crap, when I thought you couldn't be any more ignorant... oh wait, maybe the Magic Lantern guys will soon get the Rebel/550D to shoot raw, then we won't need to use the overpriced BMCC everyone is talking about! Seriously, how old are you? There's no point... andy lee 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andy lee Posted December 3, 2012 Share Posted December 3, 2012 BTW.....Fuji no longer make 35mm film for motion picture films ...they have ceased production Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cameraboy Posted December 3, 2012 Share Posted December 3, 2012 not yet ....march 2013 ...sad.... andy lee 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScreensPro Posted December 3, 2012 Share Posted December 3, 2012 Film will always have a place in Hollywood (I hope).... But for episodic tv production, Alexa rules. C300 is doing pretty well.... I think the Sony F55 will have an impact, but they somehow seem to keep missing the ball a bit, the F3 didn't really take off and the F65 is just too much camera for most. Maybe the F55 is the sweet spot? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markm Posted December 3, 2012 Author Share Posted December 3, 2012 the BMC shoots RAW so does the F55. SO you get the same picture with BOTH.----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------I guess the sensor and processor count for zero? As long as you have raw, everything looks the same, right? If the GH2 shot raw, do you think it would look like Alexa? (Even though it's DR is rated at below 12 stops, in raw, compared to Alexa's 14.5). Remember the Red One M? Shouldn't that have the same picture as the Red One MX? They both shoot raw, afterall.Not enough to make any difference most will ever notice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markm Posted December 3, 2012 Author Share Posted December 3, 2012 Bruno Andy Lee and Screens Pro. I've finished this conversation with you because it deteriorated into arrogant rude vitriolic and childish behaviour that usually means you lost the argument So keep undermining me. Seriously you make yourselves look like losers. To those who get a BMC. You literally got yourself a baby Alexa. There will be jealousy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andy lee Posted December 3, 2012 Share Posted December 3, 2012 This is all about how these cameras are used in professional workflowsand how TV and Film producers and directors decide what camera is going to be used on their production. That workflow point is just one of the major influences on decisions as it all boils down to time and money in the projects budget.Some people ..... ....dont understand this ......despite all the above posts and just go on specs. Once one system is proven and sucessful on TV or Boxoffice it become almost an industry standard so it get used more and more. This happens all the time and new systems can come along with newer better specs but they dont get picked up by the industry and used alot ......thats life in business.... ie Betamax vs VHS ....Right now in the digital camera world thats the Alexa.... its gained a huge popularity. So Sony have now made the F55 to try and challenge this market. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScreensPro Posted December 3, 2012 Share Posted December 3, 2012 just checked out your site, andy.... some very solid looking stuff in there. Do you guys ship to central Europe? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andy lee Posted December 3, 2012 Share Posted December 3, 2012 yes we ship worldwide.I'm currently shooting a movie with 3 Tecnoir Cinema RigsIts a great stable platform to work from.And all the parts are RED compatable spacing too so you can interchange parts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andy lee Posted December 3, 2012 Share Posted December 3, 2012 ScreensPro Tecnoir Cinema rig on ebay now ... have alook[url="http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/181038030947?ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1586.l2649"]http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/181038030947?ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1586.l2649[/url] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruno Posted December 4, 2012 Share Posted December 4, 2012 Bruno Andy Lee and Screens Pro. I've finished this conversation with you because it deteriorated into arrogant rude vitriolic and childish behaviour that usually means you lost the argument So keep undermining me. Seriously you make yourselves look like losers. To those who get a BMC. You literally got yourself a baby Alexa. There will be jealousy. markm quotes: "For me the BMC is a better camera (than the F55) that happens to be a fraction of the price.""They use 35mm cameras on big productions and in years gone by without monitors or video assist.""As for Jello and global shutter. Come on No one really notices this stuff anyway.""16bit? Makes no difference No one can see any imporvements.""How about listening to the truth which is the BMC shoots RAW so does the F55. SO you get the same picture with BOTH.""There is not a rational argument to choose anything other than a BMC.""dont try to make yourself look an expert and me a wannabe or a fanboy" You're right, we're the ones who made ourselves look like losers. "To those who get a BMC. You literally got yourself a baby Alexa." You know babies can't do grownup work, right? :) But I gotta give it to you, you did get something right: "This is what I hate about forums as they destroy the truth in favour of fanboyism" andy lee 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmcindie Posted December 4, 2012 Share Posted December 4, 2012 Markm = definition of a fanboy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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