Leang Posted December 5, 2012 Share Posted December 5, 2012 [url="http://vimeo.com/52564209"]www.vimeo.com/52564209[/url] so basically the scare-trend in indie filmmaking is to avoid post-modern metallic-silver-structures from a far or occasionally avoid some brick walls. or is the optimized output (2.5k) the expected? was this compression? fantastic.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QuickHitRecord Posted December 5, 2012 Share Posted December 5, 2012 Yikes! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruno Posted December 5, 2012 Share Posted December 5, 2012 You know moire is a physical effect, right? Your eyes see it, film cameras see it too. Some video cameras have a tendency to make it look way uglier than it should, but there will always be situations where it's visible.That's why they shoot wardrobe tests on film for instance, using different lenses, etc to evaluate whether or not it might become a problem, you don't want your lead character's main wardrobe to flicker on every shot, do you?Yes, early video DSLRs made it worse than it should be, and added that nasty colored moire, but moire has always been there, they just found a way to deal with it, we need to do the same. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HurtinMinorKey Posted December 5, 2012 Share Posted December 5, 2012 The only thing that was truly "scary" about that clip is how good the ungraded footage looks. FUnkin Redonkulous. Mirrorkisser and Ernesto Mantaras 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cameraboy Posted December 5, 2012 Share Posted December 5, 2012 bad resizing ....thats 1280p image .... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leang Posted December 5, 2012 Author Share Posted December 5, 2012 bad resizing ....thats 1280p image .... so the original footage should be ok? I noticed that the original uploader didn't say much from a comment regarding the moire, so I'm only assuming that the original footage was acknowledged to having the moire. most know to work around such challenges. these camera wars are a bit funny. oh yeah shipping delays and excuses are also funny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ernesto Mantaras Posted December 5, 2012 Share Posted December 5, 2012 I have resized Canon footage and gotten rid of moiré for the most part. Resampling hides it in a way. It's quite weird that coming from a 2.5k original and going to 720p it still looks that bad and it's nowhere to be seen again, no matter how little detail is found on other building shots. Maybe that's why it isn't mentioned either. And I don't care about shipping delays and excuses. Whenever the BMCC comes out will be a lot sooner than any other company offering this level of image quality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
galenb Posted December 6, 2012 Share Posted December 6, 2012 Yeah, I call shenanigans on this. I'm sure it was down to some post process that caused the moire. If this was in the original footage it would have to have been really bad for it to show up in a resize. And since exactly no footage that I've seen shows Moire like this, I'm pretty positive it was a post processing error. However, all cameras will moire at some point. The issue is how often it shows up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leang Posted December 6, 2012 Author Share Posted December 6, 2012 And I don't care about shipping delays and excuses. me neither because I haven't ordered one! :P I'm just joking around. use what you've got. I've been searching for some pro serviced retro tech cams to shoot some old VHS-C. just some particular projects I have in mind set in the 80's. but seriously for me camera blocking, fiction, technique, and then finally acting are the most thrilling and awarding things. a good DP can light whatever. cinema verite, exterior dynamic range theory, practice or highlight rolloff from skies...i mean seriously that's not what filmmaking is about. paper/spec marketing seems to have owned the new generation of filmmaking enthusiasts and the only ones winning are camera manufacturers. they're not really writing screenplays Bruno 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leang Posted December 6, 2012 Author Share Posted December 6, 2012 Yeah, I call shenanigans on this. I'm sure it was down to some post process that caused the moire. If this was in the original footage it would have to have been really bad for it to show up in a resize. And since exactly no footage that I've seen shows Moire like this, I'm pretty positive it was a post processing error. However, all cameras will moire at some point. The issue is how often it shows up. well for said video I think it's that particular building. look at the pan at 3:17 as it comes back when the pixels are stationary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
galenb Posted December 6, 2012 Share Posted December 6, 2012 You have to understand that the original was shot in either 2.5k or 1080P. if you have footage that has moire in it and you down-sample (scale) it properly it should smooth out some of the moire because the pixels are being averaged together. This is actually the very similar to the process that the camera uses internally in order to get rid or aliasing/moire in the first place. It's called super sampling or over sampling. You capture a larger image than you need and then average small grids of 4 or more pixels together in order to smooth out artifacts caused by aliasing. If however, you used some funky method for scaling (by not resampling or using funky cheap programs for instance) it will exaggerate and in some cases even create aliasing/moire. There are also a host of other post processe, effects, poorly designed encoders that can cause artifacts as well. Seeing that this footage was scaled to this odd format makes me think there was some kind of tomfoolery that happened in post. I need to find someway to illustrate this because I think there is a lot of confusion and misinformation about aliasing and moire. I think some basic understanding of what exactly aliasing is would go a long way in understanding the issues. I just want to clarify though that I'm not dismissing this as in camera. It very well could be. But I highly doubt it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted December 6, 2012 Share Posted December 6, 2012 Here's a bit of behind the scenes of the shoot [url="http://www.fstopacademy.com/blog/a-portrait-of-stockholm/"]http://www.fstopacademy.com/blog/a-portrait-of-stockholm/[/url] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zephyrnoid Posted December 6, 2012 Share Posted December 6, 2012 vimeo.com/52564209#at=0 so basically the scare-trend in indie filmmaking is to avoid post-modern metallic-silver-structures from a far or occasionally avoid some brick walls. or is the optimized output (2.5k) the expected? was this compression? fantastic..A scrip is brewing in my head. A comic parrody of the Moire Fear Mongering. I fear it will be a hit ;) Leang 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Andrew Reid Posted December 6, 2012 Administrators Share Posted December 6, 2012 There's no way you can judge this from a crappy 720p Vimeo stream. No original file. I'm surprised Blackmagic let stuff like this out of the gate without first checking for major artefacts as it creates a whole bunch of (possibly unnecessary) doubt about the performance of the camera. If you have a situation where moire is an issue, you can use a softer lens to avoid it on the BMCC and GH3 since the moire on these cameras only occurs with very sharp glass, unlike on the 5D Mark II or D800 which needed filters to remove it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zephyrnoid Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 It's kinda sad. My crappy and obsolete Canon HV20 is worth what? $50? It already has the Moire Killing sensor and softness you all desire. Too bad it drops frames and has a rolling shutter effect. Oddly, it delivers uncompressed 4:2:2 out of HDMI to an external recorder.I can't believe we're seriously talking about selecting a "softer lens to avoid it on the BMCC and GH3 etc." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zephyrnoid Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 Yeah, I call shenanigans on this. I'm sure it was down to some post process that caused the moire. If this was in the original footage it would have to have been really bad for it to show up in a resize. And since exactly no footage that I've seen shows Moire like this, I'm pretty positive it was a post processing error. However, all cameras will moire at some point. The issue is how often it shows up.Just to be safe, I studied the beautifully produced Philip Bloom 'Genesis' GH3 demo and noticed that fine lines seem to have been completely AVOIDED in the script. I guess if you can plan them out of the scenes, there will be no more moire :) Sadly, there are alot of these lines in modern architecture. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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