jgharding Posted October 7, 2015 Author Share Posted October 7, 2015 Yup, I feel very similar about the URSA Mini 4.6K vs FS5/FS7/F5 debate (seen the newest deal on the F5? wow)Heart says BMD, brains says Sony. Anyway, I am no rush. I can wait until well into 2016 until my next major camera purchase I haven't! what's the newest f5 deal?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronFilm Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 This deal:http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?340888-NEW-Sony-F5-Bundle-Includes-a7SII-Body-Viewfinder-Shoulder-Pad-amp-More Sony has unveiled one of the most aggressive and interesting packages on the F5 that i've ever seen. The going price on the PMW-F5 camera body has been $16,490, its been that way for a while. Sony has just announced a promo called the "Production Crew" bundle.The "Production Crew" bundle sells for $15,995, or can be financed for $0 down and 0% interest over 24 months for $667 a month. Included in this bundle is the F5 camera body with the internal 4K recording firmware. Also included is an NEW a7SII camera body, the LCD viewfinder for the F5, the shoulder pad/VCT tripod mount for the F5, an SxS card reader, and a full copy of Davinci Resolve 12.We're essentially giving you the viewfinder, the shoulder pad, the a7SII camera, and the rest for no extra cost, plus lowering the price of the camera by $500 compared to before. This all adds up to thousands of dollars of extra gear for cheaper then you could get the body alone previously. The price of $15,995 is surely no coincidence (hello C300mkII). If you prefer to upgrade the viewfinder to the amazing OLED viewfinder its only an additional $1000, making it $16,995.This is truly the best time to be looking into a Sony 4K camera, specifically the F5. I guess the competition has forced its price down sharply, both the internal competition from Sony (FS7/FS5) and the external competition (Canon/RED/BMD). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oliver Daniel Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 For me this point would carry a lot of weight.This point carries an incredible amount of weight. I was grading some XAVC-L files today for a corporate via FS7. They were well lit, framed nicely. Only thing is, I didn't like the image at all. It felt kinda plastic and sterile, no matter how much grading I'd put into it. But it certainly did the job it's supposed to do. CVP contacted me today regarding the URSA Mini 4.6k and other BM products regarding my pre-order status. They said : "We have no idea when these items will ship. We contact Blackmagic on a regular basis and they never reply. We are so sorry about their terrible conduct." Just so you know. So I'm in the market for a major camera purchase. Seems like I've got plenty of time to review this. Mattias Burling and Volker Schmidt 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dhessel Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 I had one on pre-order for a while and cancelled after they missed the July shipping date. I knew their history so I was not surprised at all by it and was going to just keep on waiting until I realized that not one of their new camera related items was ready to ship and non of them seemed to be even close.I feel like it is BM's stragegy to get people to preorder by saying it will ship in July - a few months away during NAB - and then just string them along until they are finally ready to ship. The whole joke of them and their shipping dates is getting really unprofessional and is starting to feel more like deception to me than over optimisum. By all accounts it appears that the Mini 4.6k will be the last BM product to ship and anyone who pre-ordered should count them selves lucky if they get it before the end of the year. Another consideration for me was realizing all this chances are I would only have the camera a few months before BM drops the price by $1000 around NAB, which seems likely based of past experiences. Couple that with the risk of buggy firmware or quality issues that have plagued about every one of their cameras it became clear to me that the most logical choice was to cancel wait for the reviews, firmware updates to hit and inevitable drop in price and then purchase. Maybe even snag one used once folks start selling them off for whatever they announce an NAB next year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volker Schmidt Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 I was grading some XAVC-L files today for a corporate via FS7. They were well lit, framed nicely. Only thing is, I didn't like the image at all. It felt kinda plastic and sterile, no matter how much grading I'd put into it. This is the same feeling that I have always with images from Sony Cameras.When I look at these examples from BM Cameras, I think colorwise this is the best what I can get from a camera. https://vimeo.com/104918710https://vimeo.com/92117973 I have the feeling; from this point I can grade in every direction...But I have serious doubts to get easily - on this point - with a Sony Camera. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xavier Plagaro Mussard Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 https://vimeo.com/104918710https://vimeo.com/92117973BM in capable hands produce awesome results! It's a pity they harm themselves with this stupid way of presenting products when they are not ready! Volker Schmidt 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgharding Posted October 9, 2015 Author Share Posted October 9, 2015 I'm having second thoughts about the FS5 too due to colour quality.Slog2 has a kind of Kodaky bluish tint built in that I'm struggling to dial out on the RX10 ii regardless of grading or colour matrix programming in the profile. If I don't use Slog it's not so bad and I can match it with other cameras, but then I don't get the dynamic range. It's certainly not as pliable as C100 footage even at twice the bitrate.on this point the Ursa looks great. But that media is extremely expensive so there's another downside. Ursa has an Alexa like look to it that's amazing for the money. Still, will it be genuinely usable on set and will it arrive anywhere close to on time? Will they be fulfilling preorders for 6 months after its released?The fact that every BMD camera seems to miss the release date by months and months is pretty silly, it's broken trust from everyone I know in the company keeping their word when it comes to release. Also despite this the final products sometimes have large flaws that need fixing in firmware or hardware.better late than never right?i don't understand the 12G SDI... I suppose they're assuming this will go to some studios for studio work, but I'm not entirely sure that's where their biggest market is with the cameras, even though they're entrenched there with other gear.In that sense it's a hedges bet: part enthusiast film-maker's camera part broadcast ready budget S35 camera...there are compromises everywhere except image quality.I think that's what I mean when put simply.so far, despite my head saying otherwise, the image is making me think they're worthwhile...That said, I've always toyed with the idea of BMD like this, and ended up with the Canon "easy life" instead hence asking for opinions Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oliver Daniel Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 I'm having second thoughts about the FS5 too due to colour quality.Slog2 has a kind of Kodaky bluish tint built in that I'm struggling to dial out on the RX10 ii regardless of grading or colour matrix programming in the profile. If I don't use Slog it's not so bad and I can match it with other cameras, but then I don't get the dynamic range. It's certainly not as pliable as C100 footage even at twice the bitrate.on this point the Ursa looks great. But that media is extremely expensive so there's another downside. Ursa has an Alexa like look to it that's amazing for the money. Still, will it be genuinely usable on set and will it arrive anywhere close to on time? Will they be fulfilling preorders for 6 months after its released?The fact that every BMD camera seems to miss the release date by months and months is pretty silly, it's broken trust from everyone I know in the company keeping their word when it comes to release. Also despite this the final products sometimes have large flaws that need fixing in firmware or hardware.better late than never right?i don't understand the 12G SDI... I suppose they're assuming this will go to some studios for studio work, but I'm not entirely sure that's where their biggest market is with the cameras, even though they're entrenched there with other gear.In that sense it's a hedges bet: part enthusiast film-maker's camera part broadcast ready budget S35 camera...there are compromises everywhere except image quality.I think that's what I mean when put simply.so far, despite my head saying otherwise, the image is making me think they're worthwhile...That said, I've always toyed with the idea of BMD like this, and ended up with the Canon "easy life" instead hence asking for opinions I've always wanted a Blackmagic camera (because the image is simply amazing), but I never got one due to the lack of HFR (which I need) and also the terrible ergonomics making them hard to use. (BMPCC was the best). Now the URSA Mini 4.6k ticks a lot of boxes where the other cameras didn't. I have to say I'm most concerned about the cropped 120fps mode, I'm really hoping it's not a load of crap. HFR is an absolute must in my camera purchases, hence why I have an RX10 II (just finished a low budget band shoot today shot on this!)It's not only the HFR that brought some attention to the FS5. I love how light and versatile this camera is. I can use all my small camera grip stuff with it too. I do find Slog2 & 3 a bit of a pain though, and I don't really like the colours. I've only shot a lot of Sony FS700/FS7/F55/RX10 II stuff because they are the only main camera maker that provides decent HFR - never been over the moon with the images though!Then it all comes back to that damn Blackmagic image - it's simply absolutely hands down superior than the Sony offerings and will very likely be more than worth the money. jgharding 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cinegain Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 Yeah, saw a video with DigitalRev's Lok holding it the other day, like you said: it sure looks very light and versatile!Does look great for selfie videos. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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