Shining a light - Sony A7S II first impressions & 4K S-LOG 3 clips for download / grading

[liork]

Lucky Luke, are you saying that after checking and filming with the A7S II?

[austinchimp]

I'm still waiting for the first example of a truly natural grade from the A7sii s-log3. All the graded footage so far looks like the instagram-filter s-log footage I really dislike (ymmv).

For me the natural look is the acid test of a camera's capabilities. Washed out artistic grades hide a multitude of sins.

[darekbo]

Hi can anyone test the aliasing and moire on A7S II. I sow same examples of movie files from A7R II and that's huge problem on that camera...I hope A7S II will be much better.

[Gregormannschaft]

I'm still waiting for the first example of a truly natural grade from the A7sii s-log3. All the graded footage so far looks like the instagram-filter s-log footage I really dislike (ymmv).

For me the natural look is the acid test of a camera's capabilities. Washed out artistic grades hide a multitude of sins.

Not sure if this is natural enough for you, but I found this on Vimeo yesterday and thought it looked really really nice - especially given that the camera has only been out a few days.

https://vimeo.com/142764518

[Andrew Reid]

I found this PDF on Sony's website about the differences between S-Gamut3 Cine and S-Gamut3. Hopefully it will help explain things a bit. https://community.sony.com/sony/attachments/sony/large-sensor-camera-F5-F55/12359/2/TechnicalSummary_for_S-Gamut3Cine_S-Gamut3_S-Log3_V1_00.pdf

Thanks very helpful!

Andrew thanks for the text. I think about slow mo. Can You upload on vimeo a few videos to download ? I saw in a few movies about a7s that slow mo has a big bump of noise. How is Your fell about it ? Can You record video with high iso in slow mo ? Are You sure that is 2.2 crop ? Is so big  wide angle is hard in this mode. Thanks !

Wide angle isn't a problem in 2.2x crop, remember you can use Speed Booster making it 1.62x crop - same as a Canon 7D (APS-C)

What lens use You in those 4k slog3 video on vimeo ? handheld but pretty good stabilisation.

Stabilisation was provided by the camera's in-body system. Voigtlander 35mm F1.2 was the lens (Leica-M mount)

Since the A7sII still suffers from the same rolling shutter and moire as the original, I think it might be a fair to compare what a $3000 body + lens gets you compared to the $1200 little brother RX-10II.

RX10 II is great but would take the A7S II over it any day.

It doesn't have a moire problem in 4K or any other resolutions, only in the non-APS-C mode 1080/60p

[User]

I'm still waiting for the first example of a truly natural grade from the A7sii s-log3. All the graded footage so far looks like the instagram-filter s-log footage I really dislike (ymmv).

For me the natural look is the acid test of a camera's capabilities. Washed out artistic grades hide a multitude of sins.

100%. And I'm thinking, that just like any other fad, that at one point there could very well be a mass exodus away from these candy colours.

[austinchimp]

Not sure if this is natural enough for you, but I found this on Vimeo yesterday and thought it looked really really nice - especially given that the camera has only been out a few days.

 

Yes I think that's a nice example of the teal and orange look, but it's still - to my eyes - a very definite stylised look. I do like the way it deals with the highlights in that footage but the skin is a strange and unnatural shade if you're looking for naturalism. Looks like one of those Osiris LUTs which makes this difficult to judge. Sickly skin is the one thing I want fixed in the A7Sii. If that's fixed over the A7s then I'm onboard. 

[David Majer]

Like others have mentioned, the reason I still use the Canon Mk3 is for colour and simple out of the box video. It just looks good.

I work in a studio, where we do a  lot of product video.  Once I tried to test the A7s and couldn't get my colours accurate.  Yes the image was very nice, but the red showing in the video out of the SONY simply was not the same red as the product was, whereas the CANON was the exact same colour.  For my studio shooting I'm not interested in grading every image, or even setting up a profile, I want to pick up the camera and have perfect colour just by setting a white balance.  I was shooting rec 709 on the SONY btw -I feel that this should have given me good colour representation.

Any one else have this experience? Any real colour comparison tests done out there?

[forofilms]

Andrew, does the old battery grip work with this new body?

[jaquet]

You can finally assign the Movie/record release to any of the customizable buttons (axcept the shutter button)!!!
I'll use the C2 – almost perfect!

[Ramos]

Hi Andrew,

RX10 II is great but would take the A7S II over it any day.

It doesn't have a moire problem in 4K or any other resolutions, only in the non-APS-C mode 1080/60p

Would you include the RX-10ii in your upcoming testing...please:)

Huge price difference for some of us and I'd really like to see what the extra dollars get us. Body + Lenses equates to much much more than the RX-10ii for video needs. I'll give you the shallow depth of field covered here:

https://vimeo.com/140184856

 

 

 

 

[Nicolas MAILLET]

I've done this for my grading... Don't know what you're thinking of but i'm happy with the A7S II files. I think they grade well and have some great latitude. Just on the metro the pictures look too green to my taste but can't do anything while the train has the same tones...

Done in Davinci Resolve 12 with the help of waveforms and Parade to adjust colors... Some nodes too, to fix Luma vs Sat. I could have made some better work on the hair of the woman... and maybe the tint on the metro... but hey it's been a 10 minutes grade for all the shots. No more than 4 nodes on each shot...

Let me know what you think.

[stephenk]

Overheating issues resolved from the A7RII?

[austinchimp]

I've done this for my grading... Don't know what you're thinking of but i'm happy with the A7S II files. I think they grade well and have some great latitude. Just on the metro the pictures look too green to my taste but can't do anything while the train has the same tones...

Done in Davinci Resolve 12 with the help of waveforms and Parade to adjust colors... Some nodes too, to fix Luma vs Sat. I could have made some better work on the hair of the woman... and maybe the tint on the metro... but hey it's been a 10 minutes grade for all the shots. No more than 4 nodes on each shot...

Let me know what you think.

 

Nice work. Think the first one of the man and woman is a bit magenta in the skin - which is one of my big problems with Sony footage. But the rest look nice. A little dull because of the cloudy weather but to my eye they look natural.

I'm just looking forward to people starting to really push this camera with creative work, I'm sure it can create a beautiful image. The only issue for me has always been the amount of time and skill you need to fix the magenta-green twist in S-Log compared to Canon colours.

[Nicolas MAILLET]

I'm used to work with canon 5D3 RAW video and you're right... it's easy to get great things on the canon... but on the Sony, it is mega compressed, colors and Luminance !!!! Files are not the same size !!! I do think i'll upgrade from 5D3 raw to the A7S mark ii...

 

Tweaking skintones on davinci resolve isn't that difficult. Let me a bit more time to grade the first shot and i think you'll be okay with skin tones... Don't forget to mention RAW on canon doesn't have any color fixed as it is RAW... and Sony has color integrated in the compressed wrapper... if on the shot it is biased... tones will be difficult to be saved...

[Nicolas MAILLET]

I think skin tones look better on this one... I didn't make any attention on the highlights of the shop behind them, but with an extra node and you're done...

8 bits but pretty smooth to grade. Well exposed and good colorimetry when shooting and i think pictures would look great...

 

Slog3 is really goo i think, and better to Slog2 to maintain highlights and blacks... A7S mark ii is well worth it. i'll rent it this week end to judge comapred to a 5D3 RAW.

[Andrew Reid]

I've done this for my grading... Don't know what you're thinking of but i'm happy with the A7S II files. I think they grade well and have some great latitude. Just on the metro the pictures look too green to my taste but can't do anything while the train has the same tones...

Done in Davinci Resolve 12 with the help of waveforms and Parade to adjust colors... Some nodes too, to fix Luma vs Sat. I could have made some better work on the hair of the woman... and maybe the tint on the metro... but hey it's been a 10 minutes grade for all the shots. No more than 4 nodes on each shot...

Let me know what you think.

Nice job Nicolas

Andrew, does the old battery grip work with this new body?

Nope!

Like others have mentioned, the reason I still use the Canon Mk3 is for colour and simple out of the box video. It just looks good.

I work in a studio, where we do a  lot of product video.  Once I tried to test the A7s and couldn't get my colours accurate.

I am going to try a little experiment...

Tweak the Cine 4 PP until it gives me Canon Standard Pic Profile colour

I bet it can be done. Then if you fail at grading S-LOG, you have an easy option.

[Nicolas MAILLET]

I'm sure this A7S mark II is a good little body. Andrew did you use any ND FIlter ? If you do Test please do one for me :

 

Take a contrasty scene exposed on highlights with AND without a ND filter. I think ND filters adds some green tints some people are afraid about when using Slog...  If you have 18% grey card please expose it on Slog3 @ 41% more or less (think it is + 2 stops over exposed but i can't remember right now)

 

Thank you Andrew.

 

Still not perfect grading as it lacks gamma on our protagonists and the pavement on the left has blue splats... Nothing too hard to correct... Skin tones look great to my eyes. Not green at all.  The difference in exposure between the man and the woman seems to be due to where they are situated from the sun or light, not a problem with colors themselves.

i've desaturated the smiley a bit, desaturated the walls behind them but add some more gain and gamma on the same walls, fixed Lum vs Sat to bring the tones exactly what they are and not what they look with color correction and other little things like that. it is perfectible a lot but this evening i have other things to do... (to color some work... paid work... lol)

[Andrew Reid]

No ND filter used for the test shots.

[Tim Shoebridge]

I would first like to qualify the comments that follow by saying that I really appreciate your reviews and insights, they are informed and very valuable and I always look forward to reading them.

That said, I can not help but notice that what was categorised as a "minor quibble" in your a7s review 15 months ago is now called "pixel-binned mush with moire and false colour". I quote this not as a criticism of your comments, but rather as proof that I feel that Sony has already become a victim of its own success. Maybe it should put the brakes on the incredible pace of its camera development, because what was "the best sensor I have ever shot on" last year is so quickly superseded. 

Given the incredibly rapid advances in technology that Sony can bring to market, it really is a very important question for professionals and enthusiasts alike as to whether we should keep upgrading or hold on to what we have. For years we had the same thing with stills photography and the sensor resolution "arms race". Thankfully common sense is just starting to prevail. Perhaps we need a similar reality-check with video? After all, how many people buying video-capable cameras really do need to shoot 4k professionally? For me personally, my a7s mark one will serve me well for years to come, and I relish the opportunity in the very near future to pick up a backup body at a bargain knock down price!