Shining a light - Sony A7S II first impressions & 4K S-LOG 3 clips for download / grading

[Rand Thompson]

It looks great, kinda looks like maybe an Osiris M31 LUT might have been used.

[Nicolas MAILLET]

Totally disagree guys... sorry. This last video looks blue and yellow... It's not a matter of taste but i've never seen needles from pine that are blue, or grass that is blue... blue trees, blue mushrooms... Maybe a smurf i've seen blue one time...

 

An entire movie like this and i'm sick after 30 minutes... This footage does'nt look natural at all.

 

I try to put style when it is needed ONLY. Breaking bad is yellowish to give that desert so much present. Idem for Sicario, truly strong yellows... But in a forest, blues are non sense for me... I think grading is more like a discrete thing and these impulz luts are not made in that direction...

 

Sorry, maybe a tough labor day today...

[Rand Thompson]

I understand what you are saying, but I learned a long time ago that a grade is completely in the eye of the beholder. Some people will hate my grade some people will love it.

I have seen grades that are technically too dark and some that were too bright. I have seen grades that I thought were technically too red, green or blue, too saturated( my own included)  and not saturated enough. Some times you have to look at a grade not in "your own taste"or on it's technical accuracy but as someones else's artist expression, right or wrong and appreciate it for that.

[Rand Thompson]

Got bored and did what I think is my last two grades. Some Are probably saying Finally, thank goodness for that.

 

 

[kaylee]

Some times you have to look at

Hi Rand!!!! do we have a new goth?? hi????

yeah so, i feel like for new readers there could be some confusion after perusing this thread regarding the dichotomy between a discussion of subjective color grading, "looks" if you will, and the potential for pleasing color from the new a7sii [using slog3]. two totally different things, for the uninitiated 

also ~ a lot of these lut looks are reductive in nature in terms of color; fewer, flatter colors, which in my experience is definitely the case natively with slog2&3 relatively speaking, so the two have really gotten along swimmingly since the a7s blew up. not saying thats good or bad, thats another discussion

that being said, im gonna take a positive stance on the new a7sii slog3 footage and say that it looks ~WAY~ better than slog2 from the a7s

[Mattias Burling]

 During the golden to blue hour shift anything in shadow tend to be blue. And higlights are gold. Specially during cold nights.

Not talking about the video above just pointing out that if you havent seen blue needles on pine its because you havent been out looking much.

The reason the orange teal is sureal but still works is because its the way tve world looks at sun down. Its a natural palette.

Totally disagree guys... sorry. This last video looks blue and yellow... It's not a matter of taste but i've never seen needles from pine that are blue, or grass that is blue... blue trees, blue mushrooms... Maybe a smurf i've seen blue one time...

 

 

[Rand Thompson]

Kaylee,

A Goth but an older one, I remember when "Black Tape For A Blue Girl" was still actually "Black Tape For A Blue Girl" not the cover band they seem to have become today. Haven't really checked out whats new at Projekt.com in a while.

I don't have much experience with sony slog other than what andrew has graciously provided for download. I have the GH4, and  8-bit internal V-Log-L is producing magenta -cyan macro blocking in skies, areas of continuous uniformed light colors, and so forth. Most with GH4s have come to the final conclusion that to get the best out of V-Log-L it is essential that you get a external 10-bit recorder to do it justice.

When I saw that Andrew had posted some sample S-Log3 footage for analysis and or grading, I thought I would see how it compared to the what I was getting out of V-log-L. From fooling around with S-Log 3, I find I initially like it better than V-Log-L. This could be because of the lack luster log to linear conversion LUT panasonic recommended for conversion, simply panasonic's inexperience to optimized a log profile for a camera in this particular price range or panasonic just wanting V-log-L to be compatible with Varicam V-Log LUTs. I'm not smart enough to give you an informed opinion on which.

I have graded V-Log-L and S-Log3 both form scratch, with Avid Media Composer for V-Log L and Adobe After Effects for S-Log3. I have also Graded Both using LUTs I made with LUTcalc version 2.1 which you can modify for most of the various log profiles currently available you can try it here:

https://cameramanben.github.io/LUTCalc/LUTCalc/index.html

From grading from scratch and using LUTs, I like the the way LUTs interpret the log footage to linear space better. I was told from others after finding out that i thought grading from scratch was better than using LUTs that you could still get a good grade from grading from scratch, however the interpretation from log to linear would be better with the use of LUTs. I didn't believe them then, I believe them now. I don't ever want to get rusty not grading from scratch but I think, IMHO,  both combined are better than doing it entirely with just one or the other.

 

[kaylee]

Kaylee,

 

Hi Rand!!! omg just to be clear those comments totally werent directed to you at all~!!! just the first one

im with you 100%!!!!

when i was brand new to this and i was like LUTs what are LUTs? i was confused by reading stuff where users would refer to luts as a thing like an instagram filter that just colors your dslr footage - not that theres anything wrong with that lol - versus a log conversion process that is of course very different. confusing if all this is new to you! thats what i was talkin about

in goth news i just finished a new fine art piece thats basically a four foot tombstone with my name on it. it came out p good!!! its not 100% done actually but the couple people who have seen it both said "Beetlejuice!" and thats totally what i was going for so thats great. anyway it was raining outside so i had to bring it indoors and its next to me towering over my bed right now in my room and its goth af lolol

[Nicolas MAILLET]

I have never seen tree barks that blue, and even on blue conifers, that only have smooth blue shades on their needles... Here we have a massive vivid tint... Come on... i've never seen these oversaturated colors in Nature... even into the golden hours (Morning and evening).

 

But if this man wants to use these luts it is ok... maybe he has already seen this one time in Nature... Only a matter of taste. Personally when i see these strange psychedelic candy style pictures, i forget what the footage wants us to see first... its story or its inner beauty... 

[Mattias Burling]

I have never seen tree barks that blue, and even on blue conifers, that only have smooth blue shades on their needles... Here we have a massive vivid tint... Come on... i've never seen these oversaturated colors in Nature... even into the golden hours (Morning and evening).

 

But if this man wants to use these luts it is ok... maybe he has already seen this one time in Nature... Only a matter of taste. Personally when i see these strange psychedelic candy style pictures, i forget what the footage wants us to see first... its story or its inner beauty... 

Like I said, wasn't talking about the video.
Only pointed out that shadows can have different colors. In fact, its impossible for shadows not to have a color. They are never ever grey. They are always the opposite color of the light hitting the object that causes the shadow. 

[Rand Thompson]

Kaylee.

I couldn't imagine waking up with a tombstone over my bed, and feeling like you've just woken up and returned from being dead.

[Gregormannschaft]

Is buying this in the States and bringing it back over a really bad idea? It's 700 euros cheaper. That's a massive difference. They really fleece you over here in Germany.

[richg101]

Is buying this in the States and bringing it back over a really bad idea? It's 700 euros cheaper. That's a massive difference. They really fleece you over here in Germany.

take the camera as hand luggage.  put the box in your luggage.  how can they prove you didn't bring it with you when you came into the US?  They're too busy stopping people taking drinking water onto the plane to worry about your camera:)

 

[neosushi]

You'll need a European invoice in case you are controlled at the customs back in germany. They don't have to prove anything, you have to prove that you bought in in Europe. :/ 

[grevetorben]

Is the A7s II able to put out 120/100fps over the hdmi? Say to fx. the Shogun or Odessey?

I'm asking because I saw a random unconfirmed post somewhere saying that the camera only allowed 60/50 fps out.
That would be a real bummer.

[Gregormannschaft]

You'll need a European invoice in case you are controlled at the customs back in germany. They don't have to prove anything, you have to prove that you bought in in Europe. :/ 

Yeah...I've heard both arguments. Buying it in Germany would be great, I just feel a bit sour about the price hike...even if taxes like the EUs contribute to a much better social welfare system than that in the States, 700 euros is a massive percentage of the price.

[User]

Yeah...I've heard both arguments. Buying it in Germany would be great, I just feel a bit sour about the price hike...even if taxes like the EUs contribute to a much better social welfare system than that in the States, 700 euros is a massive percentage of the price.

I don't know if it means anything to you Gregor, but the C100 MkII is currently selling here for 4400 incl. VAT. And when I see the colour of your Canon materiel, I rest easy and drop into the subtleties of the storytelling in a better way. But I also dig the 120 FPS and other bells and whistles of the Sony cams.

[Gregormannschaft]

I don't know if it means anything to you Gregor, but the C100 MkII is currently selling here for 4400 incl. VAT. And when I see the colour of your Canon materiel, I rest easy and drop into the subtleties of the storytelling in a better way. But I also dig the 120 FPS and other bells and whistles of the Sony cams.

Cheers for the info, the C100 is a great doc cam but I thought a lot about this the last few months (as you know!) and the IBIS is a big plus for me as I'd love to be able to use vintage glass and probably won't be in situations where I can use a proper rig. I also love Canon colour straight out of the box, but I've been messing around with Impulz Luts recently and have come to really love the image you get from them paired with a Sony cam. And lastly, I still need some sort of stills ability, so the A7SII is still looking like a good option.

Did you end up opting for the C100 MkII? 

[User]

Cheers for the info, the C100 is a great doc cam but I thought a lot about this the last few months (as you know!) and the IBIS is a big plus for me as I'd love to be able to use vintage glass and probably won't be in situations where I can use a proper rig. I also love Canon colour straight out of the box, but I've been messing around with Impulz Luts recently and have come to really love the image you get from them paired with a Sony cam. And lastly, I still need some sort of stills ability, so the A7SII is still looking like a good option.

Did you end up opting for the C100 MkII? 

I hear you on having a video and stills camera in the same box, every time I pick up my old 5D I still marvel at what a little powerhouse it was back in the day. It still is actually.

My visa was just confirmed so I'm going to pull the trigger on the C100 MkII here in the next 24 hours unless something seriously derails me. I dived as deep as I could into all possible camera/ lens/ sound combinations, the pros, the cons and everything in between. In the end everything is a compromise but I trust that the C100 MkII will allow me to tell a better story because that in the end, is really where the magic is. So let's see. I've got a very short time now to pull all the pieces together. I'll be around in the following weeks after I get settled out there and roast up some C-log.

[Gregormannschaft]

I hear you on having a video and stills camera in the same box, every time I pick up my old 5D I still marvel at what a little powerhouse it was back in the day. It still is actually.

My visa was just confirmed so I'm going to pull the trigger on the C100 MkII here in the next 24 hours unless something seriously derails me. I dived as deep as I could into all possible camera/ lens/ sound combinations, the pro, the cons and everything in between. In the end everything is a compromise but I trust that the C100 MkII will allow me to tell a better story because that in the end, that is really the magic is. So let's see. I've got a very short time now to pull all the pieces together. I'll be around in the following weeks after I get settled out there and roast up some C-log.

Nice, at the end of the day, if you're in the right places and build the right relationships, you're going to get amazing footage no matter what camera you use. So good luck and have fun! I'll be shooting my first big (well, short at around 30mins) documentary early next year in London and am slowly putting all the gear together so I can be the ultimate one man band.