C100 Mark II misc. questions

[Inazuma]

Hi guys
Sorry to lay these questions so fast and dirty but ive only just received the camera last night and am due to shoot it tonight. (it was meant to be delivered last week)

• When using C-log what is the best way to find exposure? Looking at monitor? Exposure meter? Waveform? Zebras?
• Should I use noise reduction?
• Can I change the autofocus rack speed?
• Will a really low-end laptop be able to run the wifi remote monitor/control? The laptop Im looking at is www.argos.co.uk/static/Product/partNumber/4175852.htm

 

[Zach Ashcraft]

When using C-log, there is a view assisted feature in the OLED/VF setup menu. It will show a more contrasty/graded image than what the camera is recording. You can also just cycle through a few picture profiles to make sure you're close before switching back to C-log to record. 

Personally, I've never used noise reduction and haven't felt the need to. Make sure you dont go BELOW 850 ISO as that is the cameras native ISO. You'll get ugly banding and compressed dynamic range. I shoot up to 6400 all day long and am happy with the noise. 

Not sure on AF speed. I've not changed it from the default settings which i'm generally happy with. I'm sure if you dig around the menu/manual that'll be easy to find though.

[Nick Hughes]

In C-Log, 90% white falls around 63% IRE. Set your zebras around 65% IRE and don't let exposure go above it (generally- there may be many exceptions). If you're shooting in a controlled environment, use a white sheet of paper to set exposure- the paper should just slightly be hitting zebras (or be slightly below). 

That's one method of exposing at least. There are many different schools of thought on the matter.

[User]

Nice choice of camera Inazuma. I'm curious about your questions as well:

• When using C-log what is the best way to find exposure? Looking at monitor? Exposure meter? Waveform? Zebras?
• Should I use noise reduction?
• Can I change the autofocus rack speed?

 Hoping other can chime in as well.

[AaronChicago]

C Log is pretty easy to judge exposure and color on its own in my opinion. Its like SLog 2 or Cinelike D. 

[User]

http://www.danmccomb.com/tips/canon-c100-mkii-configuration-guide/

[Inazuma]

 

In C-Log, 90% white falls around 63% IRE. Set your zebras around 65% IRE and don't let exposure go above it (generally- there may be many exceptions). If you're shooting in a controlled environment, use a white sheet of paper to set exposure- the paper should just slightly be hitting zebras (or be slightly below). 

That's one method of exposing at least. There are many different schools of thought on the matter.

When I set my zebras to 65% a lot of areas that are clearly not overexposed start striping. Is this really an appropriate setting?

Should I not look at the waveform monitor and just expose til I hit 100?

[Guest Ebrahim Saadawi]

Unless you're not going to be grading:

1- Activate waveform, expose until just before 100%. Trust me, this is the best image for the C100 C-Log in noise, DR, colour, skin. You'll see when you try it. The image is so much thicker and nicer when brought down while falls apart while pulled up. It's so easy to expose as the waveform is super fluid (real time at 25 fps). And yes ETTR even by pumping up ISO, on the C100 an under exposed 850 image is noisier than an ETTR 3200 image. But ideally, ETTR with iris and shutter and lights at 850 native ISO. 

2- Yes if you don't want to spend the huge effort of neat video in post, in shoots where you're going above 6400+ ISO, increasing the NR to 5 in the menus gives a ENORMOUS lowlight advantage with no detail loss. Beyond that you start losing. 

3- No you can't. Only C300II and 7DII 

4- Yes any device, even a chinese tablet. It's just a wifi signal and a browser. Nothing demanding, 

 

You'll try yourself all of these but when you get it save yourself some time and test mine. 

Also test using WDR instead of C-Log. Especially for +6400 ISO with +5 NR. I would actually shoot the first one shot in WDR at 850 ISO under sunlight just to avoid the initial momentary disappointment  you might get with seeing your first shot in C-Log, especially if it's in lowlight, with Cinema Lock (no DR) and exposed down a bit. WDR serves GREAT in fast jobs, some people even prefer it for grading. So compare both too as a test. 

[User]

Ebrahim, you my friend are a star

[Nick Hughes]

 

When I set my zebras to 65% a lot of areas that are clearly not overexposed start striping. Is this really an appropriate setting?

Should I not look at the waveform monitor and just expose til I hit 100?

Those are values from the Canon white paper. I've never graded C-Log, so I can't say whether or not those values are truly best. Definitely worth trying the ETTR method that Ebrahim suggests.

[Inazuma]

Thanks for the responses everyone and especially Ebrahim. On the first day I was exposing my shots to +1 stop. But I have since been shooting until just under 100 IRE and have been getting much better results. Am about to start my final day of shooting now. Will post some clips over the coming weeks   

Only thing is CLog is very prone to banding and colour noise when pushed around. But I'm not quite willing to give up that nice dynamic range. So I'm probably going to get an external recorder

Attached stills with a quick 5 min grade. 

[User]

Only thing is CLog is very prone to banding and colour noise when pushed around. But I'm not quite willing to give up that nice dynamic range. So I'm probably going to get an external recorder

Thank you for your continued updates Inazuma.

From my research, I am hearing that an external recorder does not make that much difference. Of course this is just what I'm reading and seeing form others and would be happy to hear more from others who have experience.

[AaronChicago]

Yeah in my experience the external recorders make a minimal difference. What ISO were you shooting Inazuma?

[Inazuma]

I have to say I find it hard to believe that an external recorder won't help because most of the image defects are just due to the high compression. Anyway once my video assist arrives I'll know for sure.

 

Aaron I was recording at various ISO's up to 16,000.

[AaronChicago]

I have to say I find it hard to believe that an external recorder won't help because most of the image defects are just due to the high compression. Anyway once my video assist arrives I'll know for sure.

 

Aaron I was recording at various ISO's up to 16,000.

Ok just wondering if any noisy ones were below 850 ISO. I found those to be pretty bad. 850-1600 is the sweet spot. Maybe even up to 3200.

[Inazuma]

I wrapped up over three days of shooting on Sunday and have done some little experiments since. Wanted to share some thoughts..

Firstly I have to say that I am finding it hard to find much of a dynamic range difference between it and the Nikon d5500 - and by extension the Panasonic GX7. 

Secondly I find the colours and tonality of the d5500 Flat to actually be preferable to CLog. And the Wide DR profile is rubbish really. It's not much different to a standard profile on other dslr's. However I have tweaked a few settings in Clog and am now getting a much better image. The main changes are to change the "Setup Level" under "Other Functions" to 0. And under "Color Matrix" set the "Phase" to +18. Now the blacks are no longer raised and the colours are much more natural and pleasing. I have not found any mention of these two settings on the internet though strangely. 

Good news is that I no longer think it necessary to use an external recorder because I found that Neat Video 4 completely removes all the colour noise and other compression artefacts. It's really fucking magic. 

Finally the resolution and noise performance lives up to my expectations. And the inbuilt exposure and focus aids are great, as well as the dual-pixel AF. Basically it's just an awesome camera to use. If I could just get a little more latitude in the highlights... 

[User]

Hi Inazuma, very good to hear your report on using the C100 MkII. Thanks! 

However I have tweaked a few settings in Clog and am now getting a much better image. The main changes are to change the "Setup Level" under "Other Functions" to 0. And under "Color Matrix" set the "Phase" to +18. Now the blacks are no longer raised and the colours are much more natural and pleasing. I have not found any mention of these two settings on the internet though strangely.

With your comment on getting a better image (more saturated colour and darker blacks) out of the C-log by changing settings, are you NOT able to get these things from the C-log by grading it? In other words, do you have to make these changes to the "Setup Level" and "Colour Matrix" to get the more natural and pleasing colour and blacks? Is this not possible from your tests of the camera's default C-log?

Also I know you said that you can't find anything on the net about making the above changes to get the best out of it but if possible please share anything you find where someone has given some decent advice on how to set the C100. I will do the same. Thanks again!

[jgharding]

I use wide dr 90% of the time.

Clog only with Ninja 2.

wide DRis usually enough and grades very well.

if you think it's rubbish I'm gonna have to  assume all your shots involve exposing both the filament of a lightbulb and a face in shadow at the same time

there are some settings knocking around to remove the green cast from Clog.

be wary of the whole "fill the waveform In log" thing. It's not how it's designed to be used. You will reduce noise by pushing down in post, but you seriously cramp the skin tones on to the upper tip of the log curve and can end up with skin banding which sucks.

[User]

I'm hearing that the C100 MkII does it's best in C-log in reasonably well lit (day) situations, and Wide DR during low light (night) situations. Is there any truth in this?

Also, with all that there is to contemplate in this big wide world, I'm wondering if there are any 'tried and true' settings that one can just 'set it and forget it' when using the camera for a long form documentary where one wants the most of the material to have the same look/ feel. I'm excited about this camera because of its workhorse ability and solid colours right out of the box and would be happy to step into a trusted set up profile that I can run with. Ya know?

Here is some info that I've been gathering along the way:

Dan McComb: Using a lower ISO won’t cause more noise, but will result in less dynamic range, in particular in the highlights. Instead of using a lower ISO, use an ND filter. Also, to reduce noise, I recommend overexposing by about a half stop. Canon doesn’t recommend this, but Shane Hurlbut does and my testing has confirmed that this camera needs a little extra light to keep the noise down.

Ebrahim Saadawi: Activate waveform, expose until just before 100%. Trust me, this is the best image for the C100 C-Log in noise, DR, colour, skin. You'll see when you try it. The image is so much thicker and nicer when brought down while falls apart while pulled up. It's so easy to expose as the waveform is super fluid (real time at 25 fps). And yes ETTR even by pumping up ISO, on the C100 an under exposed 850 image is noisier than an ETTR 3200 image. But ideally, ETTR with iris and shutter and lights at 850 native ISO. 
Yes if you don't want to spend the huge effort of neat video in post, in shoots where you're going above 6400+ ISO, increasing the NR to 5 in the menus gives a ENORMOUS lowlight advantage with no detail loss. Beyond that you start losing. 
Also test using WDR instead of C-Log. Especially for +6400 ISO with +5 NR. I would actually shoot the first one shot in WDR at 850 ISO under sunlight just to avoid the initial momentary disappointment  you might get with seeing your first shot in C-Log, especially if it's in lowlight, with Cinema Lock (no DR) and exposed down a bit. WDR serves GREAT in fast jobs, some people even prefer it for grading. So compare both too as a test. 

[jgharding]

If in doubt expose Log with view assist. 

As mentioned, using 100% of the waveform in log exposure is an emergency trick to use for reducing noise, not for everyday exposure. It's a bad practice that's spreading because most don't read how and why Log does what it does.

its not how it's designed to used. It forces mid tones into the upper bend of the log curve.

you don't want your midtones squished into the part that's only designed for extending highlight range, especially in an 8-bit codec.

youre fine going a bit over if you like, but banging it over by a bunch of stops every shot  is wasting the point of using log in the first place. Just use view assist if in doubt.