Where is the V Log love?

[sanveer]

Where is the V Log love? 

 

There isn't.

 

I can direct to a lot of V Log hate though!  

 

I sold the GH4 the moment I tested V-Log.

 

I actually sold my first GH4 for the videoy images, then when I knew a filmic real Log profile is coming, I bought it again (the same unit, at a loss), and I was waiting for it to fix the video image, it simply didn't. 

 

I sold it again to the same guy ( at another bigger loss) after V-Log testing...

 

 Not an image I'd ever touch with a 10 feet clown pole. 

 

Now that I've bought a Ninja Blade, I am not willing to buy it for the third time to test how it looks externally. The GH4 experience already cost me a C100 cost, with all the loss in selling/rebuying, dedicated m43s lenses that I bought and sold, the SB that I bought and sold, the batteries and cards, the adapters to Nikon F, Canon EF, PL, M42, so excuse my experience is a tiny teeny tad bit on the bad side with this particular camera model! 

 

 

Glad some people are liking it though!

 

Hahaha ... Panasonic could make a short film on this. It's like that scene from Superman (the Christopher Reeves one), where the guy selling the Leaning Tower of Pisa breaks his pieces, when he realises that Superman has brought the tower back to its leaning position, after straightening it before:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iMOnOjASyKk

[AaronChicago]

Besides just 10-bit V-LOG tonality, do you find the difference in compression noticeable going from internal to external recording? I haven't done much work with the GH4, but people tell me the internal 4K suffers quite a bit in the shadows. Is the ProRes easier to manipulate/clean up?

Yeah the 10 bit ProRes files are much better. I shoot with it like a BMCC. Giving it enough light and or contrast to shine. Low light situations might get a little iffy.

[Fritz Pierre]

I love my GH4's and although I've just relocated from the US to Ecuador (an enormous undertaking), the bit of Vlog I've played with internally looks great...I own a Shogun and have'nt even had the opportunity to try it...Natural looks great internally and Vlog just ads another dimension to this camera. Combined with the XL speedbooster for S35 sensor size, I've bought enough cameras to last me a while so a +++1 for Vlog from me!!

[Andrew Reid]

Where is the V Log love? 

 

There isn't.

 

I can direct to a lot of V Log hate though!  

 

Not an image I'd ever touch with a 10 feet clown pole. 

But you don't say why!

Why don't you like it?
 

I still haven't got round to trying it yet. 1D C / A7R II / A7S II are keeping me busy. Still a great camera though.

[Andrew Reid]

Just installed V-LOG L. Will give it a spin!

Looks a lot noisier on the screen than S-LOG 2 on the A7S II even at ISO 400. What ISO do you guys recommend for it?

[Lintelfilm]

I think it's partly because it took so long for Panasonic to get it out, and then the mess-up with the "free" workaround, and then the complete silliness of having to buy a code in a box to activate something that is already in the camera (and the fact that as far as I can figure out it's still not possible to buy it here in the UK - I'm still rockin the freebie), and then the realisation by users that if used with internal recording it's not really that great - I think these things just deflated all the anticipation. There was way more buzz about it before it was released than there has been since.

I shoot with Cine-V most of the time, and also like Natural - both with the Highlight curve at -5. I find that you can lift the blacks quite a bit in post, which I do rather than in camera to preserve midtone contrast.

I'm waiting for the Blackmagic video assist to arrive (I don't need 4K). I really hope Aaron is right and the prores files are significantly better. I'm currently shooting a job with my GH4 (Cine-V) and BMPCC and I'm just so much more in love with the Pocket's image. I did a multicam for the interview and for this quick teaser/appeal spot I only used one GH4 shot (at 0:33 sec) - all the others are BMPCC. Bear in mind it's just a rushed job so grading etc isn't great.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=doyiaX4ebQY

Having said that, I've been enjoying shooting 1080p 100mbps IPB (50p and 60fps) on the GH4 recently. Obviously it's "softer" but I don't really mind unless I'm shooting wide. Rolling shutter is noticeably better than 4k and the high bitrate makes for a very robust HD image - these things combined with the wider FOV (2X crop) and high frame rate means it's a great option for shooting handheld. 

[Santiago de la Rosa]

I thnk it´s time for the GH5, it was released in may 2014.

I hope Panasonic announces the GH5 soon and that we can buy it on may-june 2016

[AaronChicago]

Just installed V-LOG L. Will give it a spin!

Looks a lot noisier on the screen than S-LOG 2 on the A7S II even at ISO 400. What ISO do you guys recommend for it?

ISO 400 is the worst. Shoot 800 or 1600 and expose a bit to the right. It looks a little noisy in the shadows ungraded, but it's corrected by adding a LUT. I've found that the Varicam LUT is not good at all. The 2 best are Impulz Cineon to Film Contrast 1, and FilmConvert V Log profiles.

I thnk it´s time for the GH5, it was released in may 2014.

I hope Panasonic announces the GH5 soon and that we can buy it on may-june 2016

I'm not opposed to that but what are you looking forward to with GH5 that's improved over GH4? Only thing that I see them adding as a bonus is 4K 60p, and HD 120fps. No way they'll add 10 bit 4:2:2 in camera. The camera that I hope Panasonic makes is the FS7/Cx00 competitor.

[JazzBox]

Just installed V-LOG L. Will give it a spin!

Looks a lot noisier on the screen than S-LOG 2 on the A7S II even at ISO 400. What ISO do you guys recommend for it?

I have the same issue... lot of noise in internal situations, no matter how much light I have. I mean, at least shooting with a couple of lights, not with a 18.000W Arri

ISO 400 is the worst. Shoot 800 or 1600 and expose a bit to the right. It looks a little noisy in the shadows ungraded, but it's corrected by adding a LUT. I've found that the Varicam LUT is not good at all. The 2 best are Impulz Cineon to Film Contrast 1, and FilmConvert V Log profiles.

Outside no noise problems, but it's very difficult to use the peaking.  
I already have an external monitor but I can not load LUTS on it... and I'd love to maintain a light rig for 90% of my work, otherwise it is more simple to use other bigger cameras that can shoot ProRes internally.

I'll try 800 ISO. Where to buy the LUTS you talk about? 

[graphicnatured]

Where to buy the LUTS you talk about? 

Cineon to Film Contrast 1 is from http://www.vision-color.com/impulz/ I think

[Santiago de la Rosa]

Exactly, HFR modes like sony RX10 II, in camera OIS, better codecs and the dream would be 10 bit 4:2:2

[Guest Ebrahim Saadawi]

But you don't say why!

Why don't you like it?
 

I still haven't got round to trying it yet. 1D C / A7R II / A7S II are keeping me busy. Still a great camera though.

Let's just say that your EOSHD Log is better than V-Log!

Why? The V-Log testing/discussion here was a little while back probably when you were away. 

[AaronChicago]

Let's just say that your EOSHD Log is better than V-Log!

Why? The V-Log testing/discussion here was a little while back probably when you were away. 

I like Andrew's LOG converter too, but with V Log they've totally remapped how colors are rendered. They just look good out of the box. No doubt that you could mess around with Cine D, V, or Natural and match it, but it's extra work. Highlights just look so much better too in my opinion.

[Guest Ebrahim Saadawi]

The increase in highlight dynamic range is the only part about V-Log that's really good. Shooting outside daylight landscapes V-Log + ETTR gives good images and great DR, really higher than standard profiles. But for anything else, any bit of shadow in normal lighting we shoot at, any solid colour, any gradient including skin, it's just not good. Not for me anyway. 

[Andrew Reid]

The increase in highlight dynamic range is the only part about V-Log that's really good. Shooting outside daylight landscapes V-Log + ETTR gives good images and great DR, really higher than standard profiles. But for anything else, any bit of shadow in normal lighting we shoot at, any solid colour, any gradient including skin, it's just not good. Not for me anyway. 

What about in 10bit? That should solve your complaint with solid colour and gradients.

[TheRenaissanceMan]

I absolutely agree that highlight rendering ( along with color) is hugely benefited by V- LOG. In fact, I think it gives the GH4 the best highlight rendering of anything sub-RED Dragon/Alexa. 

The internal codec can get a little ropey, but you're using LOG on an 8-bit camera. What did you expect? Add an external recorder and the GH4 becomes an absolute beast. 10-bit plus LOG really puts it in a whole new league.

[JazzBox]

Cineon to Film Contrast 1 is from http://www.vision-color.com/impulz/ I think

Thank you!

[Guest Ebrahim Saadawi]

What about in 10bit? That should solve your complaint with solid colour and gradients.

The tests we all conducted were internal codec. 
 

Just to be clear, what we got with internal V-log is disastrous. We're not talking 8 bit Log common little issues like some banding as we see on S-Log2 8bit and Canon Log 8bit or Nikon Log 8bit, which all do a nice job squeezing some more detail from extreme ends while affecting the image almost negligibly.

 

With V-Log (recorded internally) I see a hideous image effect, revealing the sensor's extreme shadow noise performance even at 400 ISO, but not only noise amount, there actually are brand new image defects introduced, the strange magenta splotches in the shadows and creeping up to midtones, actual new mageta blocks that look like codec colour noise or macro-blocking,or both. Weird thing is they come out more on solid gradients/lights,were banding should be the more expected problem on this particular place. 

 

I tried curing them with neat video, it works, but sadly I discovered that along with removing these particular colour splotches, it remves magenta/red hues from skin and affects the whole magenta/red colour saturation, making skin completely free of blood, just yellow. Skin looks good before doing that, better than CineD but not by much.

 

Really any other profile gives a better image just losing the highlight reach advantage of V-Log. They give much cleaner shadows/mid tones, no magenta codec artefacts, much less banding and break-up, and the noise on the normal profiles is not only cleaner, but finer and show no color noise, one of the best/finest/most filmic grain on the sub 5000$ is the GH4, in all profiles except V-log, where anything shadow-y is a mess. 

I think the problem is that they just copy/pasted V-LOG from the Varicam which is raw and has a superb clean sensor. They should have designed a Log curve for the gh4 sensor and codec, to have the normal NR in the shadows and to factor in the weaker codec macro-blocking and such. When you start-shooting internal V-Log in various situations I assure you you'll drop it, just inconsistent. 

Good news is: Some users are reporting recently tht V-Log works with external recorded codecs and doesn't have the internal issues.

Makes sense, it's more designed for higher-end codecs like 400mbps 10bit 4:2:2 ProRes HQ you get with the GH4 + recorder, HD or 4K shoud both be good for V-LOG.

I'd liketo see some external V-Log files to grade, something with shadows. Might buy it for the third time =) since I bought a ninja blade recently.

[TheRenaissanceMan]

The tests we all conducted were internal codec. 
 

Just to be clear, what we got with internal V-log is disastrous. We're not talking 8 bit Log common little issues like some banding as we see on S-Log2 8bit and Canon Log 8bit or Nikon Log 8bit, which all do a nice job squeezing some more detail from extreme ends while affecting the image almost negligibly.

 

With V-Log (recorded internally) I see a hideous image effect, revealing the sensor's extreme shadow noise performance even at 400 ISO, but not only noise amount, there actually are brand new image defects introduced, the strange magenta splotches in the shadows and creeping up to midtones, actual new mageta blocks that look like codec colour noise or macro-blocking,or both. Weird thing is they come out more on solid gradients/lights,were banding should be the more expected problem on this particular place. 

 

I tried curing them with neat video, it works, but sadly I discovered that along with removing these particular colour splotches, it remves magenta/red hues from skin and affects the whole magenta/red colour saturation, making skin completely free of blood, just yellow. Skin looks good before doing that, better than CineD but not by much.

 

Really any other profile gives a better image just losing the highlight reach advantage of V-Log. They give much cleaner shadows/mid tones, no magenta codec artefacts, much less banding and break-up, and the noise on the normal profiles is not only cleaner, but finer and show no color noise, one of the best/finest/most filmic grain on the sub 5000$ is the GH4, in all profiles except V-log, where anything shadow-y is a mess. 

I think the problem is that they just copy/pasted V-LOG from the Varicam which is raw and has a superb clean sensor. They should have designed a Log curve for the gh4 sensor and codec, to have the normal NR in the shadows and to factor in the weaker codec macro-blocking and such. When you start-shooting internal V-Log in various situations I assure you you'll drop it, just inconsistent. 

Good news is: Some users are reporting recently tht V-Log works with external recorded codecs and doesn't have the internal issues.

Makes sense, it's more designed for higher-end codecs like 400mbps 10bit 4:2:2 ProRes HQ you get with the GH4 + recorder, HD or 4K shoud both be good for V-LOG.

I'd liketo see some external V-Log files to grade, something with shadows. Might buy it for the third time =) since I bought a ninja blade recently.

 

 

You realize Nick Driftwood posted a bunch of those months ago, right? 

And actually, those same magenta/green artifacts are present in the other GH4 picture profiles too. They're just much more pronounced in V-LOG L. DVX User had an interesting thread about it. 

As you theorized, the profile simply isn't meant for use in 8-bit. For best results, you need an external recorder. And if you're not used to shooting and grading non-Canon LOG, it's very easy to **** up your exposure/color correction. Research is your friend!

Although...I've actually seen some excellent examples of good-looking stuff shot on internal V-LOG. Check it out:https://vimeo.com/139600006
https://vimeo.com/139922620

 

(Not sure why only one link posted as a preview...)

[AaronChicago]

I'm shooting a music video with V Log next weekend and I'm stoked on getting some good looking results out there. Here is another good looking landscape video I saw on Vimeo with V Log 10 bit: