Gregormannschaft Posted November 5, 2015 Share Posted November 5, 2015 I did try another A7s-II black hole sun test.Instead of 30p, I tried 24p. Again, as hard as I tried, I could not force the problem to occur. Granted, I am using a US market camera and it does not have "25p"...only 24 and 30p.So I guess this only affects European models? Can anybody else get this problem on their A7s-II?You can still switch to 25p, no? There should be a PAL/NTSC switcher somewhere in the menu. But then again, if you don't get the spot, dont worry about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrorSvensson Posted November 5, 2015 Share Posted November 5, 2015 saw this picture on cinema5d and wow, im really surprised Sony managed to get the lowlight so much better than the original a7s. TheRenaissanceMan 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmcindie Posted November 5, 2015 Share Posted November 5, 2015 That test was from cinema5d (and they mess up stuff). For example, the a7S was recorded externally which preserves noise more. The a7S II was recorded internally compressed and that compression removes noise a lot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRenaissanceMan Posted November 5, 2015 Share Posted November 5, 2015 Didn't FCPX Seem to help with banding on the a7s in s-log 2? Seem to remember it being more of an issue in premiere for some people. I'd be interested to hear if S-log 3 is any better in FCPXThat's an interesting point. What programs are everyone using to grade? Would Resolve, with its 32-bit float color space, give better results than Premiere/FCPX? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicolas MAILLET Posted November 5, 2015 Share Posted November 5, 2015 That's an interesting point. What programs are everyone using to grade? Would Resolve, with its 32-bit float color space, give better results than Premiere/FCPX?Banding in Resolve too. But there are ways to get rid of it, like qualifying the sky and get it a little bit blurry to smash those creepy bands... brrrreewwww hew hew hewwwwwww... Get out CREEEEPY bandinnnnggggg !!!!! Sorry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRenaissanceMan Posted November 5, 2015 Share Posted November 5, 2015 That test was from cinema5d (and they mess up stuff). For example, the a7S was recorded externally which preserves noise more. The a7S II was recorded internally compressed and that compression removes noise a lot.I don't know...it looks like improved color NR, not just compression. Probably processing and not an improved sensor, but if it gives us better shadows with less weirdness, then...*shrug*. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyler Peck Posted November 6, 2015 Share Posted November 6, 2015 Great review. It's nice to have someone speak some truth. I haven't had the sunspot problem, US version, but agree on most of the other issues. Coming from the Blackmagic world, 420 8 bit it just a bummer. At least give the option of 422 10 bit via HDMI. Hell, even develop a proprietary recorder like Panasonic did for the GH4. I'll buy it if I get better quality for grading. I'm most likely switching to Slog2 since it's not quite as flat. And yeah, the rolling shutter really is awful. You really can't move around with this camera. As for adapters, not sure if it was an individual occurrence, but the Sony LAEA3 destroyed the aperture control on the camera. Both me and the B&H guy have never seen anything like it. I had to exchange the camera. Honestly, I'm on the fence and might return it altogether. The FS5 looks promising even though it has other issues. At least it has 10 bit 422 in HD. Plus that variable ND is looking pretty amazing. On a side note, could we stop calling cameras "beasts" and/or "monsters". It's driving me nuts TheRenaissanceMan 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SheaDizzle Posted November 6, 2015 Share Posted November 6, 2015 Hey Guys, Neither me nor my cameraman are experiencing this problem either. Used it on a couple gigs. It's a bit sketchy spreading this as fact. Pretty sure it's a malfunction in Andrew's particular unit. Maybe should have reached out to others and reported as a possible malfunction. Sounds like other people are having the same issues as him - super bummer. I tried like hell to replicate the sunspot and even the banding he's getting. No luck I did have a hella dirty lens though! Wait...yup, banding is there Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qha Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 I must comment that banding issues can be solved without 10-bit if correct dithering noise would be used. This must be done by the camera before internally converting to 8-bit. Maybe sony could fix this in a firmware update.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dither Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulinventome Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 Hi Andrew,On the vimeo clip with the blue sky banding could you confirm your workflow. I ask because that piece of video doesn't look like the video i get off my A7sII (in terms of pixel formats), i use NukeX to go through these files and the formats are different - because i've never seen banding like that i'm wondering whether there was some transcoding going on in your workflow that has caused these problems? Is it possible to see the file straight from the camera, untouched?It's certainly true that Slog3 is not needed for this camera, this camera will never fill the Slog3 bucket and so you will never make good use of the limited 8 bits. Slog2 was tweaked for the A7s and so it fills the entire curve and is by far and away the best choice, combined with SGamut3.cine which is a smaller colorspace than SGamut and therefore less wasteful of the limited bits.It's also worth pointing out that it's 8 bit YUV, not RGB and so when converting to RGB the end result is a greater depth that what you may first assume, especially if the conversion is done properly.Again, i've seen the black spot occasionally (PAL 25fps) but not as crazy as you seem to have it!The A7sII certainly manages noise better than the A7s but it looses the ability to output a 2.7k APS-C upscale to 4K over the HDMI toocheersPaul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cool Blake Posted November 8, 2015 Share Posted November 8, 2015 Ok by reading thru all comments I've noticed that the black spot only effects 25p pal....I live in the USA and we shoot 24p.....no one who shot 24p ntsc has detected this problem. Sorry for you overseas guys but the camera is perfect for us western shooters.....hope they drop a firmware fix for you guys..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Andrew Reid Posted November 8, 2015 Author Administrators Share Posted November 8, 2015 Hey Guys, Neither me nor my cameraman are experiencing this problem either. Used it on a couple gigs. It's a bit sketchy spreading this as fact. Pretty sure it's a malfunction in Andrew's particular unit. Maybe should have reached out to others and reported as a possible malfunction. Sounds like other people are having the same issues as him - super bummer. I tried like hell to replicate the sunspot and even the banding he's getting. No luck I did have a hella dirty lens though! Wait...yup, banding is there Dude! Read the thread or even the top half of the article.It's a genuine problem in 25p.The 24p / NTSC is unaffected.To be clear because it seems this needs repeating!...There's other people experiencing with the problem, more user reports all over the place and on other forums if you can be bothered to look. It's not just my unit. The good news is, when I reported it to Sony they took it very seriously and the engineers in Tokyo are now investigating.I'd expect a firmware fix for sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bengrubb Posted November 8, 2015 Share Posted November 8, 2015 This thread has been a very interesting read. I was very excited by the announcement of the a7sII and thinking of upgrading from my 5D mkIII. It's good to see some highlighting of potential issues with the camera. This sun spot and banding talk is a making me think twice about buying one sadly. The 1080p @ 120fps and the sensor stabiliser are still very tempting, but living in the UK I need reliable 25p.Andrew mentions a potential Canon announcement in November: is this confirmed/from a reliable source? Sadly I'm not holding my breath for anything groundbreaking (despite being a life long Canon user) but if it is confirmed it seems like a good idea to wait to see what it is... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agolex Posted November 8, 2015 Share Posted November 8, 2015 Have it, too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Andrew Reid Posted November 10, 2015 Author Administrators Share Posted November 10, 2015 Today had an email from Ben Pilling at Sony saying the sunspot issue is being analysed for a firmware fix. Good news!http://www.eoshd.com/2015/11/sony-confirm-a7s-ii-25p-sunspot-bug-firmware-update-to-come/Very quick reaction from Sony and thanks to everyone else who have tested for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Kotlos Posted November 10, 2015 Share Posted November 10, 2015 Today had an email from Ben Pilling at Sony saying the sunspot issue is being analysed for a firmware fix. Good news!http://www.eoshd.com/2015/11/sony-confirm-a7s-ii-25p-sunspot-bug-firmware-update-to-come/Very quick reaction from Sony and thanks to everyone else who have tested for it.How about the FF/S35 shortcut issue? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrorSvensson Posted November 10, 2015 Share Posted November 10, 2015 How about the FF/S35 shortcut issue? Why would you shoot in crop mode? You get better quality cropping the 4k video, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Kotlos Posted November 10, 2015 Share Posted November 10, 2015 Why would you shoot in crop mode? You get better quality cropping the 4k video,I was only joking cause I wish they added this functionality to the A7rii. Renaming things we want as "issues" seems to grab Sony's attention. Although black spots is more of an actual issue. BrorSvensson 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmcindie Posted November 11, 2015 Share Posted November 11, 2015 Why would you shoot in crop mode? You get better quality cropping the 4k video,The 4k cropped looks very compressed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolf33d Posted November 13, 2015 Share Posted November 13, 2015 A7S II vs A7R II interesting article by Cinema5Dhttps://***URL not allowed***/sony-a7s-ii-vs-a7r-ii-test-which-one/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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