Pavel Mašek Posted November 3, 2015 Share Posted November 3, 2015 Hi NX1 users, I would really appreciate I you could check attached raw H265 videos downloaded directly from camera (no transcoding) and let me know if you have experienced similar issue - serious macroblocking and lot of artifacts. I thought it is normal for NX1 when is codec pushed to its limits, but other users on FB already told me that it is not normal. I used this settings: fw1.4 (one clip is older with fw1.3) in 4K30p, PRO settings (80-85mbits), standard gamma, sharpness all way down, luminance 16-235- really serious here (see chapel and grass) http://we.tl/N8985ZGfnw - visible macroblocking on the sky http://we.tl/yNH8UFMKYl and here http://we.tl/OUTmb0j4SPI really appreciate your help! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sekhar Posted November 3, 2015 Share Posted November 3, 2015 Never saw this before on any video I shot with 0-255 at 24p (both 4096 and 3840). I'm guessing your issue is due to the combination of 16-235 (limiting space for the fine level variations) and 30p (stressing the codec). I agree, the result is quite hideous, definitely needs fixing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pavel Mašek Posted November 3, 2015 Author Share Posted November 3, 2015 Never saw this before on any video I shot with 0-255 at 24p (both 4096 and 3840). I'm guessing your issue is due to the combination of 16-235 (limiting space for the fine level variations) and 30p (stressing the codec). I agree, the result is quite hideous, definitely needs fixing.Thank you for very much. What I remember I shot both 2nd and 3rd video (sky macroblocking) with 0-255. 2nd video with "yellow tree" was also shot in 4096 24p (download link is here http://we.tl/KG9fSQr9yn ) and it is true that result is better but the artifacts are still visible. I just want to figure it our if the problem is just with my camera (I know it may sound strange - how can be codec broken just in my camera?) or it is usual for NX1 and codec is not able to handle these "stressful" situations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pavel Mašek Posted November 4, 2015 Author Share Posted November 4, 2015 Has anyone else same problem? Is it normal that NX1 sometimes artifacts so much?Maybe I should also try 3840 24p which should offer more bitrate per frame and use Dynamic DR gamma which provides slightly softer image (in term of details) than Sdandard mode... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hene1 Posted November 4, 2015 Share Posted November 4, 2015 Standard gamma uses photo picture profiles which may cause the problem? So I would test with Gamma D or Gamma C. Also it has been speculated that 4096 mode is just upscaled 3840 (becouse 4096 is softer than 3840) so maybe upscaling causes other issues as well.I personally use 3840x2160, 25p, Gamma C, 0-255, sharpness -10, green x0.95, PRO bitrate, and I haven't had any issues.Sidenote: converting to ProRes (at least with Rockymountains Movie Converter) adds banding, while converting to H.264 wont. Pavel Mašek 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ricardo_sousa11 Posted November 4, 2015 Share Posted November 4, 2015 Never seen this happen, I dont think its codec related, you probably have a faulty unit. Pavel Mašek 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pavel Mašek Posted November 4, 2015 Author Share Posted November 4, 2015 Standard gamma uses photo picture profiles which may cause the problem? So I would test with Gamma D or Gamma C. Also it has been speculated that 4096 mode is just upscaled 3840 (becouse 4096 is softer than 3840) so maybe upscaling causes other issues as well.I personally use 3840x2160, 25p, Gamma C, 0-255, sharpness -10, green x0.95, PRO bitrate, and I haven't had any issues.Sidenote: converting to ProRes (at least with Rockymountains Movie Converter) adds banding, while converting to H.264 wont.Standard gamma can be also tweaked via picture profile settings in photo mode (change sharpness, hue, etc). So basically video uses setting of Standard profile you set in photo mode (BTW so you can film directly in BW, nostalgic,.... picture profiles). I know that Standard profile has limited DR, but I like the color comes from camera...I will try to simulate some stressful scenes and try different settings. Thank you very much for advise Hene1 ... Never seen this happen, I dont think its codec related, you probably have a faulty unit.Thank you Ricardo for feedback.It is strange - I would never imagine that it can happen just to particular unit (even bitrate of video is OK - 80-85mbits) and in most of the situations it is fine. It become visible in situations where are lot of details (leaves, grass, etc) - just similar to uploaded videos. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hene1 Posted November 4, 2015 Share Posted November 4, 2015 Standard gamma can be also tweaked via picture profile settings in photo mode (change sharpness, hue, etc). So basically video uses setting of Standard profile you set in photo mode (BTW so you can film directly in BW, nostalgic,.... picture profiles). I know that Standard profile has limited DR, but I like the color comes from camera...Surely I know that:) If you like standard colors, you should try Gamma C. Colors with it are truly amazing. I think DR is the most overrated thing, and with these low bitrates it's better to get closer to final result in camera instead of that flat look, which may break your footage. Pavel Mašek 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marco Tecno Posted November 4, 2015 Share Posted November 4, 2015 Pavel, did you try using settings and profile provided by eoshd? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NX1user Posted November 4, 2015 Share Posted November 4, 2015 I've never seen that with my NX1. I've seen minor banding in mine, but that was when I had the ISO set too low.Do you have anything set to auto, like ISO, focus or WB?What lens did you use?What brand and model of SD card?Since your camera is on a tripod, did you turn off OIS and DIS? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pavel Mašek Posted November 4, 2015 Author Share Posted November 4, 2015 Pavel, did you try using settings and profile provided by eoshd?No, but I think it such profile would not help, becuase we talk about native files and it appears in Standard and Gamma DR modes too... and I always keep sharpness down. Flatten image in camera could help but I think just a little... grading would make it even worse. But thank you for suggestionI've never seen that with my NX1. I've seen minor banding in mine, but that was when I had the ISO set too low.Do you have anything set to auto, like ISO, focus or WB?What lens did you use?What brand and model of SD card?Since your camera is on a tripod, did you turn off OIS and DIS?I shot it on ISO 100, everything on manual - WB, focus, exposure...I used Samsung 45mm and higher apertures.I use SDXC Sandisk Extreme PRO 64GB - 95 MB/sFirst and 3rd shot was from tripod and 2nd ("yellow tree") shot with monopodDIS was turned off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pavel Mašek Posted November 4, 2015 Author Share Posted November 4, 2015 I also see compression artifacts and mackroblocking in scenes like this on image below (mostly on sky and slightly on the grass) which is quite anoying. It is not so visible and I can live with it but... I started to think it is not normal according your comments.If you check the image on 100% you will see clearly the artifacts on sky.Settings is same as above (here used Samyang 12mm on f5.6) with polarizer, tripod, etc... Luminance 16-235, and 4k30p. I just regret that I did not try Gamma DR and 24p (which offer higher bitrate per frame) if it could affect this macroblocking.It is wonderful that every needle is rendered but rest of the image suffers because of that. Image is taken directly from potplayer from native h265 clip, sorry for overexposure ;-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beritar Posted November 4, 2015 Share Posted November 4, 2015 I have the same artefact in the sky sometimes with my NX1. I think the problem is the H265 codec.But the most annoying for me is the noise reduction applied automatically. It smears lower details even at low ISO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pavel Mašek Posted November 5, 2015 Author Share Posted November 5, 2015 Interesting. I've noticed some macro blocking in shadows that were underexposed, and I've noticed some banding in the sky before, but what you're experiencing is worse than anything I've seen before.It seems odd that you would have a faulty unit that would produce something like this. It seems that the artifacts change as the lighting changes... for instance, on the shot with the chapel, the artifacts around the window and the doorframe worsen as the sun flares. I don't know what that means, but it's just an interesting observation. Makes me think it's somehow codec / bitrate related. I've had a hell of a time with UHD / 4K 30p stuff since the 1.4 update. The 30p seems to complicate things on my camera.Is every clip your record like this, or have you just found a few random anomalies?All shots with shallow depth of field I ever made were OK.. it is clearly easy for codec to handle it. I only observed it from time to time ... I think that h265 in NX1 does not like shadows (grass and chapel is in dark, sky is quite dark on other shots becuase of polarizer)... it is OK when there not other stressful subjects like trees, grass... It is hardly see in YT but there was macroblocking on this video in 0:40 ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PRSVfJ8_xr8 ) mainly in shaddows (but it affect rest of the image slightly too). All other shots in this video were completely fine.I think that "chapel video" was quite extreme becuase of these fast light changes, lot of moving leaves and shadows. I do not know - maybe is reason to use 16-235 and 30p. For other landscape shots I should probably avoid to use polarizer too...To be honest I am not happy with "bridge video" because it is not so extreme situation - simple static landscape shot from tripod. I will try to go on same location during weekend and check different settings (I hope it will be same weather ;-)) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bunk Posted November 5, 2015 Share Posted November 5, 2015 Probably a complete stupid question ...but do you get the same macroblocking artifacts without the polarizer? Pavel Mašek 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pavel Mašek Posted November 5, 2015 Author Share Posted November 5, 2015 Probably a complete stupid question ...but do you get the same macroblocking artifacts without the polarizer?That is not stupid question at all... it is true that in most cases (maybe in all of them... hard to remember) I used polarizer. But how can polarizer affect the compression artifacts?Maybe they become more visible especially on the sky, but I do not know any other reason. I made photos in same time I did these video clips and there are clear without any issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamoui Posted November 5, 2015 Share Posted November 5, 2015 I remember watching Mattias' one NX1 video and noticing artifacts: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YeReub7OQbQIce at :13Sky at :17I'm not sure if they are present in any of his other NX1 videos but I'll check.I haven't noticed any artifacts in my footage. Mattias have you noticed these artifacts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pavel Mašek Posted November 5, 2015 Author Share Posted November 5, 2015 I remember watching Mattias' one NX1 video and noticing artifacts: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YeReub7OQbQIce at :13Sky at :17I'm not sure if they are present in any of his other NX1 videos but I'll check.I haven't noticed any artifacts in my footage. Mattias have you noticed these artifacts?Yeah, I saw that video too before I bought NX1. I thought that reason of it is transcoding and YT compression... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neosushi Posted November 6, 2015 Share Posted November 6, 2015 A test I ran a while ago : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2COkbUi82zMAlmost only skies ^^. Youtube compression doesn't help, as well as the LUTs I applied. But there is still some banding and a little macro blocking on the graded file (before youtube compression). Hope that helps... Pavel Mašek 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tugela Posted November 6, 2015 Share Posted November 6, 2015 I think the problem is that you have lots of fine detail in that image and it is all moving very rapidly due to the stiff breeze. That is overloading the bandwidth and compromises happen in areas of relatively uniform color with low contrast. That ends up with macroblocking. Any camera with the resolution that the NX1 has is going to have issues with a scene like that I think.You do see that from time to time in the NX1, but I would see it in my G30 from similar shots as well, so I don't think it is a camera issue so much as a bandwidth issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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