Blackmagic Micro Cinema Camera

[Zak Forsman]

26 minutes ago, squig said:

Zak are you seeing any difference in highlight roll-off between the BMMCC and BMPCC?

i've only set up a comparison once. i have frames of a lamp with the light clipping on the nearby wall and I can't see any meaningful difference. and when i made that exposure adjustment and more or less color matched them, they looked nearly identical to me in terms of DR. But take that with a grain of salt. DR wasn't really what i had set out to test.

Why? Are you?

[squig]

35 minutes ago, Zak Forsman said:

Why? Are you?

I don't have a Pocket to compare. I've been testing it against the 5D raw shooting street scenes. The roll-off doesn't appear to be as smooth as the 5D. How are you exposing?

[Guest Ebrahim Saadawi]

On 3/21/2016 at 8:55 PM, Phil A said:

Regarding the Micro Studio Camera with 4k. Seeing how it's not the same sensor as at BMPC4k I wonder if there's any dynamic range tests out there about it?

 

There seems to be a lot of confusion here about the difference between the Micro and Studio Micro Cameras. 

 

1- The Blackmagic Micro Camera has an internal recorder to SD card, in Raw and ProRes. While the Studio camera doesn't record at all, all you can do is record the HDMI output to an external recorder if you want. 

2- The Blackmagic Micro Camera has a 1920x1080p sensor, while the Micro Studio has a 3840x2160 sensor, both are roughly the same size at s16 but are VERY different sensors and come from different manufacturers.

 

The sensor 1080p sensor is described by Blackmagic as a ''film'' sensor, while the 4K one in the studio micro is described as a ''broadcast'' sensor. 

 

In other words, the 4K sensor in the Micro Studio camera is the same one in their older full 4K studio camera (which I frequently used), and compared to the micro cinema camera 

 

-Has horrible, horrible moire & aliasing,

-Native ISO of 200 and anything higher is unusable, vs good 800/1600

-much higher rolling shutter

-7-9 stops of DR max vs 13 stops

-Only Rec 709 ''video'' and there's no LOG/Film option vs the lovely BM LOG gamma.

-No internal recording at all vs Raw & ProRes to SD Cards.

-Only compressed ProRes/H.264 vs RAW recording

-And by the way a piece of information, if you open them up, aside from the external case, they have radically different internals and share NOTHING including sensor, processor, encoders, outputs, chips, and even where and how they're laid out in the casing, vastly, vastly different camera

 

It's designed squarely for closed highly lit studios for live broadcast. 

 

The 1080p sensor in the new Micro camera is the V2 of the one in the Pocket camera from Fairchild Imaging. Over the late model (pocket) they added the ability to shoot up to 60fps in rolling shutter mode (same rolling shutter in the pocket camera),

the sensor is said to be improved overall in lowlight performance, aliasing, a FILM camera sensor designed for film unlike the broadcast cameras. 

 

So the Micro 1080p camera of fitted with an external LCD can be considered as a successor for the pocket camera with a better sensor, better lowlight, slowmotion, better design and more inputs and outputs, as well as specific ability to be controlled remotely by any device using the new S-BUSS interface. while the Micro Studio Camera can be considered as the Full 4K studio camera that was announced last year just without the 10" LCD/Viewfinder. 

This difference:

VS. 

 

(In terms of use and applications)

 

So while the two micro cameras appear similar on surface they are completely different and have vastly different uses and applications.

Don't fall into the trap of buying the Micro Studio camera thinking it's a s16 4K version of the Pocker/micro cameras for 300$ more and record it externally. Only buy the Micro Studio camera if you want to broadcast 4K images from a tiny POV camera in a studio and you have the broadcast setup the goes with it. It WILL produce good 4K under day light with no repeating patterns, it will look fine, for reporter shots and news, but not at all in the range of the high DR filmic HD image of the Cinema and ability to shoot in lowlight. Just very different and not what you're looking for here, Not for ''video/film'' shooters on the forum. 

 

Anyhow, glad to see some new BMMCC tests appearing. This FPN in the shadows is worrying in the v2 sensor but i am eager to see if they lived up to the promise of "better aliasing control, overal higher image quality, higher readout speed & clean 60p"

[ChemaMumford]

17 hours ago, bats_rock said:

@ChemaMumford . I just received mine today and that's was one of my first test. You can't shoot in 60fps RAW. You can do Raw 3:1.

Thanks @bats_rock. That´s nice¡ I like the idea of using a compressed raw.. I mean i don´t mind.. 

[odie]

14 hours ago, ZachGoodwin said:

On a serious note. The reason why selfies are constantly looked at by other people is not because of all these tactics or formulas for a Hollywood shot. They are constantly looked at because of well the girl is hot... I mean one of the issues with going overbudget with people is that they try too hard to get the most hollywood forumla shot possible... But it is much better to just film the person than to try to formulate this huge ginormous shot. You have 30 seconds to film a bird before it flies away, what are you going to do?

A: Dolly push in with crane shot on a Panavision

or

B: Pull out your phone and film it.

 

If you pick B it is right, because you would lose everything if you picked A.

I would pick A ...and find another bird...(Panavision dolly in on a crane...I have a budget!!!)

[Cinegain]

Or a hot girl of course...

[Lance Thorn]

5 hours ago, squig said:

Hey Lance,

I think the extra noise is mostly due to the BMMCC ISOs being slightly darker (<1/3 of a stop) than the BMPCC as Zak mentioned. I'm not seeing much of a difference in noise looking at the wide shot of the room. Best to test raw because prores is gonna add some compression artifacts.

Hi Squig,

Ahhhhh, I see. Like you said, I don't see much of a noise difference in the wide room. Definitely not a deal breaker at all since I'll have lit/bright shots. Just wanted to make sure. Nervous about being an early adopter with the history of kinks.

I picked up both the Pocket and Micro (with Zacuto EVF) to decide which one I like. I do like the option of a screen on the bmpcc, awful as it is, but I find it good enough to gauge focus and check exposure. Plus it makes it easier for on-the-go shooting with a small lens. The Micro does feel nice traveling light as Andrew mentioned. I plan on rigging my setup either way. I do wish there was a tiny screen add on when traveling light. The Zacuto feels a little odd for that purpose.

As mentioned menus output to through HDMI just fine. It feels weird navigating–I did adjust. I don't see myself doing quick on-the-fly adjustments. For my shooting, I'd just set the ISO to 800 and adjust exposure via ND or aperture.

Here is a shot of the menu on a Zacuto EVF

 

[Mattias Burling]

Must be some bird...

[DayRaven]

I'm so glad you brought me in to help outwith Mr Scuffles' house, I've got some amazing ideas...

 

Just as long as you're not bringing 50 people through my house like the last guy

 

No, it's just me!

 

Great, an improvement already. So, here's the yard, there are the planks.

 

Ok, that's cool, but I'm not going to use the planks, you can take them away.

 

Huh? What are you going to make it out of

 

Whole sticks, straight from the tree

 

Er... Why?

 

It's so much more natural, don't you think, theres no need to interfere with the perfection of wood straight from the tree, the act of shaping it and bending it to your will just takes the emotion from it, makes it less alive, more dull.

 

Well, I was going to ask you to paint it.

 

Absolutely not.

 

Geez, OK, if you're sure you can make it look good - All the other neighbours have planks, they all look great.

 

Do you want a dog house like all the others

 

Yes

 

No, no you don't and when I'm finished, all the other neighbours will be copying you

 

Fine, theres a tree over there, I'll get the nails.

 

Nails, oh no, we won't need nails.

 

How are you going to build it then

 

We shall await a storm, and where the windblown stick fall, there shall be your dogs bed.

 

 

[Guest Ebrahim Saadawi]

This is good stuff right there

[Zach Ashcraft]

Just a friendly reminder that this forum has an *ignore user* function for those of you who would like to wade past the nonsense a little faster 

[Liam]

13 minutes ago, Zach Ashcraft said:

Just a friendly reminder that this forum has an *ignore user* function for those of you who would like to wade past the nonsense a little faster 

right, but be careful with that trigger.. would be a bummer to ignore everyone who's said something you don't like..

[AaronChicago]

Folks who have the BMMCC. How bright is that red/blue light on the front? Does it seem like it would be annoying for shots where the subject is close to the camera?

[richg101]

8 minutes ago, AaronChicago said:

Folks who have the BMMCC. How bright is that red/blue light on the front? Does it seem like it would be annoying for shots where the subject is close to the camera?

you can adjust brightness and also turn it off

[Zak Forsman]

I like it at LOW. nice to have the visual feedback. and it looks kinda cool glowing like that from under the WC cage I have for it. but yeah, you can turn it OFF if needed.

[Cinegain]

Or you're just a little too much... Anyways, what was it you said again..?

On 22-3-2016 at 6:50 AM, ZachGoodwin said:

Anyway back to Blackmagic Micro Cinema cameras...

 

[dvcrn]

Are there any small screen options that you could slap on the cam? Preferable something "micro" and a little tinier than the small HD options

[squig]

7 hours ago, Lance Thorn said:

I don't see myself doing quick on-the-fly adjustments. For my shooting, I'd just set the ISO to 800 and adjust exposure via ND or aperture.
 

Neither did I, then when I got it I was even more certain I didn't wanna do on-the-fly adjustments. And my fingers aren't particularly fat. All of my lenses have aperture rings but I think I'm gonna get a Sigma 18-35mm and a Nikon mount speed booster (changing aperture from a menu has always been alien to me.) The Micro really needs the extra speed to keep the noise down. The only things I'll need the menu for are frame rate and shutter angle. Raw ISO is adjustable in post. Blackmagic should make the buttons assignable.

SLRmagic 12mm @ t/1.6 800 ISO pushed 1/3 of a stop in ACR. Minimal chroma de-noising.

 

3 hours ago, Zach Ashcraft said:

Just a friendly reminder that this forum has an *ignore user* function for those of you who would like to wade past the nonsense a little faster 

I tried it, it doesn't work on admins.

[Cinegain]

19 minutes ago, dvcrn said:

Are there any small screen options that you could slap on the cam? Preferable something "micro" and a little tinier than the small HD options

Sure... this is probably your best bet as ideal companion:

~ https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/products/blackmagicvideoassist

-- Or did you mean like GoPro LCD BacPac, in which case I'm afraid not.

[shijan]

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