Blackmagic Micro Cinema Camera

[kuban]

2 hours ago, Yurolov said:

There is a blue tonality and coolness that you often see in certain 16mm film present in your work which I really like. The images from the pocket are really hit and miss for me. This is one of the better examples. At it's best it really rivals the digital bolex. But at its worst the blue channel can be a bit funky. Do you find it is easier to get good color with prores straight from sensor or manipulating the raw? What kind of results do you get from each?     

The ungraded shots had a neutral washed out feel to them, once in After Effects the ProRes responded really well to the layered grades, I experimented a lot of Magic bullet and suddenly the colours really came out, the blues in particular and the Orange just punched put on the radio, looking back on the grade I think I may have overdone some shots and a green hue appears, but impressed with how ProRes deals with it, when I dabble with RAW,  I tend to play on it's strengths lifting shadows and exposure levels, I do get a bit of noise though. need to be careful with Clarity settings too given the moire and aliasing issues.

[cantsin]

1 hour ago, Snowfun said:

So to repeat the question... how do you preserve the detail? What’s the best work flow to get from the raw to the Blu-ray? 

Edit and master in the highest quality possible. In the best case, work with an editing program that can natively use the CinemaDNGs (at least as the basis for the rendered video, even if you use proxies for better performance during the edit). Render to a high quality codec such as ProRes, DNxHR or Cineform, and master your BluRay with a high-quality h264 encoder from that file.

[IronFilm]

On 4/1/2018 at 5:11 AM, mercer said:

Good find, I’ve never seen this one before but it may just be the best example of what the Pocket and Micro are capable of. If I saw that in a theatre and someone told me it was shot on an Alexa, I would find absolutely no reason to doubt them. The way the contrast was handled, is just gorgeous. Damn. I’ve been searching for a slow motion camera for a while... hmm... I wonder how hard it would be to match it with 5D3 ML Raw footage for slow motion insert shots?

Use the BMD Micro Cinema Camera for slow motion footage. 

On 4/1/2018 at 7:48 AM, mercer said:

I had the Micro and used a 5” monitor with it. The camera is basically the size of a Rubix Cube, so a 5” monitor is ridiculously big for such a tiny camera. They should have either included, or sold, a small monitor that could be powered by the camera or had WiFi so your phone could be used as a monitor.

Would a 3.5" monitor be small enough?

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1265749-REG/ikan_vl35_3_5_4k_support.html

Or 2.8 inches?? :-o 

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1359738-REG/e2work_adam_3g_hd_sd_sdi_2_8_portable_monitor.html

 

 

On 4/1/2018 at 8:18 AM, BTM_Pix said:

I've no idea what the sales have been like for the micro but I've always expected them to drop in price and they never have as I'd probably be very tempted at a lower price.

 

Yes, you get the feeling sales of the Micro was probably lower than for the Pocket. Thus you'd expect a sales pricing for it one day?

But then again perhaps BMD was predicting lower sales, and had production lower to match the demand. 

On 4/1/2018 at 9:52 AM, BTM_Pix said:

It depends on the size of the power bank but we are measuring in hours rather than minutes.

I ran that test the other week with a 4000mAh one and got bored after two hours of powering one and it had run down one out of 4 bars on the indicator. They are literally credit card sized but a bit thicker so even carrying a spare isn't going to be a hardship.

Something like this one will work as is and even has the acrylic case which you could store the power bank in (in the space where the raspberry pi would have gone) 

I think @Kisaha has just ordered this one or one near identical to it

https://www.ebay.com/itm/3-5-HDMI-LCD-1920x1080-Touch-Screen-IPS-Display-Kit-for-Raspberry-Pi-1-2-3-EB/332253259667?epid=24003437661&hash=item4d5bd66793:g:CLQAAOSwH09ZNoG6

The ones I'm sourcing are designed for VR headsets so they're OLED and better native resolution but the price is a fair bit higher.

I've got a 5.5 inch 2K 450Nit one just come in from China to evaluate from the same supplier so I'll see how that goes first.

With regard to the remote control, this is a readily available one that covers most functionality.

https://www.cinegearpro.co.uk/products/cgpro-bmmcc-bmmsc-focus-zoom-record-remote-controller

There is scope to do something like that integrated in a handle for example with a display as well and even an Android remote interface to it.

Basically, these things are all Arduino based boards that talk to the camera so there is no end of things you could attach to it in terms of thumbsticks and switches to have dedicated direct control of all the key functions. It all depends on what someone would want.

That one for £99 is not bad though.

 

Dammnnn.... that could be a nice set up! A little "mini FS7" on your shoulder, that is controlled from your right hand near the grip

On 4/1/2018 at 4:40 PM, mercer said:

I read the comments and it looks like it may have been shot in ProRes. I would have guessed Raw.

People really under appreciate just how good ProRes can be. 

[IronFilm]

On 4/1/2018 at 10:36 PM, kye said:

Assuming the camera manufacturers allocate the bitrate in a sensible way, which they are pretty good at doing (ie, not 480p with 30-bit colour depth or 8K with 3-bit colour depth), then image quality will be roughly proportional to bitrate.

You're hiding in there the wild assumption that camera manufactures will all be equally sensible with the compression algorithms used. 

Which isn't at all true!

You can go from one extreme such as Canon who are absolutely totally shit at it, all the way out to say Samsung who were very advanced for their time. (arguably too advanced to their detriment!)

On 4/2/2018 at 2:27 AM, mercer said:

The cheapest I’ve seen is $7-800. It’s pretty crazy that you can get a camera that shoots 2.5K Raw for around $500. I know the camera has its quirks but for smaller projects, that is a steal. And since I am slowly building my EF lenses, the EF version is exactly what I would want. 

 

Oh dear god no :-o Please for all that is holy don't get the BMCC EF (not unless you see it for a total STEAL such as say three hundred)

Because remember the BMCC EF has the same sized sensor in it as the BMCC MFT, thus the BMCC EF has no way to deal with the rather small sensor like the BMCC MFT can (such as using lenses with image circles that more closely match the sensor size, or by using a focal reducer). 


Personally I would just go for the BMPCC/Micro, as the BMCC in ProRes offers nothing extra over the BMPCC/Micro. 

 

[webrunner5]

4 minutes ago, IronFilm said:

You can go from one extreme such as Canon who are absolutely totally shit at it, all the way out to say Samsung who were very advanced for their time. (arguably too advanced to their detriment!)

I sometimes think Samsung did what they did just to prove a point they that they could do it. It's not like Samsung didn't have the money to ride out sagging sales. They have to have known they were not going to sell millions of cameras in a short period. Sony faced the same problem when they bought out Minolta. And honestly Samsung had a better product in the start than Sony ever did.

[IronFilm]

On 4/2/2018 at 2:43 AM, mercer said:

I had the opportunity to buy another Micro right before Christmas for $450. The guy only used it once. I am kind of annoyed that I didn’t. I am very happy with my 5D3, but I wouldn’t mind some slow motion ProRes/Raw options for the toolbox, for various projects.

Damn! You should have bought one for me :-P 

[kye]

4 hours ago, IronFilm said:

You're hiding in there the wild assumption that camera manufactures will all be equally sensible with the compression algorithms used. 

Which isn't at all true!

I did say 'roughly'..   maybe I should have compensated for the internet taking everything literally and said 'VERY roughly' :P

However, regardless of codec, every 50Mbps codec is going to be bested by every 500Mbit codec, so I think the principle applies.

If this was a general discussion about image quality then I might have put more finesse into my argument, but considering the stupidly high bitrates of the BMPCC, I thought that it was a good enough explanation

[mercer]

10 hours ago, IronFilm said:

People really under appreciate just how good ProRes can be. 

Yup, there is so much juice in the files, I don’t see why people would need much more than ProRes in most instances. 

[mercer]

10 hours ago, IronFilm said:

Oh dear god no :-o Please for all that is holy don't get the BMCC EF (not unless you see it for a total STEAL such as say three hundred)

Because remember the BMCC EF has the same sized sensor in it as the BMCC MFT, thus the BMCC EF has no way to deal with the rather small sensor like the BMCC MFT can (such as using lenses with image circles that more closely match the sensor size, or by using a focal reducer). 


Personally I would just go for the BMPCC/Micro, as the BMCC in ProRes offers nothing extra over the BMPCC/Micro. 

Honestly, I don’t worry about crop factors any more. I have FF Raw with my 5D3. Everything else is just a crop.

I get other people’s issues with it but I am really just kinda tired of adapters. I used only vintage glass when I first started shooting video, so I bought an adapter for every lens and rear lens cap for every adapted lens. Now I have 3 boxes of adapters and lens caps taking up space. Ever since I got the 5D3, I am slowly building a small set of EF lenses and with the two vintage sets I am building, I am searching for copies with the Leitax mount or plan on having them Leitaxed. I may eventually change the F mount to EF on my ai-s lenses.

Not to mention, with the BMCC it has the same crop as the GH4 with native lenses so... and the EF is an active mount on the BMCC.

So, with all that being said, I would definitely get the EF version at the right price.

But with that being said, your final suggestion is probably the right way to go... I’ll probably end up getting a Micro for the 60p.

I’m in no rush right now to get any camera.

10 hours ago, IronFilm said:

Damn! You should have bought one for me :-P 

It was a one off, I’m pretty sure the guy just wanted to dump it for some quick cash right before the holidays. But I’m still kicking myself. I’ve made a list of saved searches, on eBay, for everything I would need to build the smallest, most useful BMMCC rig to fit my shooting style and by the end of the year, I hope to piece it together for a grand or less. Of course, if I hadn’t cancelled that order, I would have been under $800... damn... what was I thinking?!?!

[IronFilm]

12 hours ago, mercer said:

Honestly, I don’t worry about crop factors any more. I have FF Raw with my 5D3. Everything else is just a crop.

But the BMCC EF makes it almost impossible to shoot ultra wide and fast. 

 

12 hours ago, mercer said:

I’ve made a list of saved searches, on eBay, for everything I would need

I have literally HUNDREDS of saved eBay searches! :-o 

But they pay off eventually, even if sometimes it takes literally a couple of years for that to happen, like when I finally found these headphones:
 

 

[TwoScoops]

 

 

Another vimeo find. BMMCC + 1.5x scope. 

[kuban]

Comrades.

We might just get something gooood

https://www.newsshooter.com/2018/04/07/blackmagic-tease-new-4k-pocket-cinema-camera/

[IronFilm]

Hopefully it doesn't have the Micro Studio sensor. 

But BMD might think now that they've had the firmware update which boosts DR 2 stops and gives base ISO a raise from 400 to 800 that this is sufficient for BMPCC Generation 2.0?!  

Hope not. 

[webrunner5]

I remember an interview they had like 6 months ago their biggest problem was no sensor existed that didn't have too much heat in a small package for doing 4k. Maybe they are using the same sensor that is in the GH5s, and Kinefinity? I am sure Sony would be willing to sell it to them. But maybe it won't work in a small body either?

[kuban]

Just seen what is purported to be a leaked image of the new pocket camera, if true, looks wise is horrid.

Reminds me of a fujifilm instax camera body, it ain't pretty.

Really how could they get it so wrong!

[IronFilm]

1 hour ago, kuban said:

Just seen what is purported to be a leaked image of the new pocket camera, if true, looks wise is horrid.

Like this?

 

No pocket carrying with this one!

But if it means great functionality/horsepower, then it is worth it

[Danyyyel]

Yes, at least a micro 4/3 sensor, with much better low light even better DR, audio, monitor, etc, would valid an increase to dslr size model for me.

[kuban]

1 hour ago, IronFilm said:

Like this?

 

No pocket carrying with this one!

But if it means great functionality/horsepower, then it is worth it

I know it's what is in the camera that matters, but this looks hideous, and it shouldn't be

[DBounce]

With a s16 sensor and 4K what usable ISOs can we expect?

[IronFilm]

21 hours ago, kuban said:

I know it's what is in the camera that matters, but this looks hideous, and it shouldn't be

Looks fine to me! The camera isn't the one which is on camera, model level good looks are not needed!

 

 

21 hours ago, DBounce said:

With a s16 sensor and 4K what usable ISOs can we expect?

The BMPCC4K is not S16, it is an "oversized" MFT sensor.