Blackmagic Micro Cinema Camera

[1tkman]

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Thanks Aaron, interesting about blue-cast with Lumetri on RAW footage. I sure love the Lumetri option on Premier and I think you were the one who alerted me to it's potential. 

IYO, do you think this issue might be fixed in time or is it "part of the package" with BM RAW footage?

Considering attached, am I correct in thinking that this camera can record internally, on a card of sorts? Not seeing a memory card slot, and again, I am just learning about this camera. 

I also wonder with a setup such as this, with the gymbal (I don't recognize maker), how at-risk would footage be regarding centering/focusing. I do imagine this setup is a viable option and you could wing-it with acceptable results though... anyone have any experience with the Canon pancake pictured?

 

 

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[cojocaru27]

If they solved the noise in the shadows and a bit the low light performance, could really be the best 1080p camera on the market.

That's why i was so curious to see the fooatge coming out of it.

Aaron, what about the blackmagic screen that was just released ? could be a nice match.

 

[squig]

This whole idea that the pocket/micro cine isn't good in low light is misconceived. The 5DMK3 is widely known for being a good low light camera but in reality it's no better than the BM cameras. The highest usable ISO on the 5D raw is 6400 (and you must ETTR) digital gain kicks in @ 1600 ISO and noise will be a problem beyond that if you're not careful. To get a good filmic DOF I normally set the aperture to f/5.6. To get the same shot on a pocket/micro cine with a speedbooster I'd be shooting at f/2.8 to match DOF and I'd gain 1 and 2/3 stops of light from the speedbooster which means I could get the shot with the pocket/micro set at 800 ISO. The noise on the BM cameras @ 800 ISO looks a lot more filmic than the ugly chroma fixed pattern noise on the 5D @ 6400 ISO. Having not shot with the BMs this is theoretical but the math suggests the BMs have a low light advantage over the 5D in most shooting scenarios.

The A7s/II is widely considered to be the best low light camera but the reality is in post it's no better than the 5D raw @ 6400 ISO. You can shoot at higher ISOs with the A7s/II but if you don't ETTR it gets really ugly. 

[jagnje]

Well, if you shoot a 5d at 5.6 it does not mean everybody does. It'a ridicilus comparison. I enyoi shooting it at 1.4...

[squig]

If you think that's a ridiculous comparison chances are you don't know WTF you're talking about. Name one scene from a feature film shot full frame at f/1.4? No focus puller is that good, & no cinematographer is that crazy. About the only time I'd shoot at f/1.4 is a wide establishing shot at night. ONE SHOT! Troll harder.

[jagnje]

well, I for did a whole season of a TV show as a focus puller shot on two BMD production cameras with zeiss super speed 1.3 lenses and we never shot under 2.8.

If you would like you can watch it every sunday on our national television.

[cojocaru27]

Squig, i don't have any full frame lenses so no metabone adapter here. I will only use m4/3 lenses. Manly olympus primes, 12, 25 and 75mm. All f 1.8 equally of 3,6 maybe 4 on full frame (oly 12mm is f2.0 to be exact). is your math still working in BMMCC advantage? thx a lot.

[squig]

well, I for did a whole season of a TV show as a focus puller shot on two BMD production cameras with zeiss super speed 1.3 lenses and we never shot under 2.8.

If you would like you can watch it every sunday on our national television.

Huge difference in DOF between BMD prod at @ f/2.8 and 5D @ f/1.4.

Squig, i don't have any full frame lenses so no metabone adapter here. I will only use m4/3 lenses. Manly olympus primes, 12, 25 and 75mm. All f 1.8 equally of 3,6 maybe 4 on full frame (oly 12mm is f2.0 to be exact). is your math still working in BMMCC advantage? thx a lot.

Well without a Speedbooster you'd still shoot at f/2.8 to match DOF, but you'd have to shoot at 1600 ISO because you wouldn't have the extra 1 & 2/3 stops light advantage of the Speedbooster. As soon as I get my hands on the BM micro cine I'll do some low light tests vs the 5DMK3 and A7s.

[1tkman]

Is it possible or a ridiculous idea to attach a speedbooster if a lens is already a MFT mount.

Would a speedbooster be beneficial enough to justify costs?

I noticed the micro is MFT and most of the lens pictured with the camera on the website were panasonic MFT lenses.

 

 

[Zak Forsman]

there is no mFT to mFT speedbooster. I have EF lenses and more than likely the Metabones BMPCC mFT/EF Speedbooster I have will work perfectly on the Micro.

[jagnje]

Huge difference in DOF between BMD prod at @ f/2.8 and 5D @ f/1.4.

yes it is...but I followed an actor walking down the street for about 100 meters at full open (1.3) with an 85mm lens. It`s not that hard if you mark it right.

Saying that nobody does it on a full frame camera is pretty bold... there a far far better focus pullers that I am out there.

 

Anyway, no DOP will shoot a BMD production camera at asa 800 and BMD cinema at 1600...at least not for narrative work professional job. In fact no one will touch one unless they have to. Producers love them, DOPs hate them, a fact. The amount of lightning setup you do for one of these, well you end up spending more money that you would renting an alexa. try to explain that to the producer tho...

[AaronChicago]

If they solved the noise in the shadows and a bit the low light performance, could really be the best 1080p camera on the market.

That's why i was so curious to see the fooatge coming out of it.

Aaron, what about the blackmagic screen that was just released ? could be a nice match.

 

It is a good price, but I don't think it's necessarily the right match for the BMMCC. No LUT support, limited scopes, mid-quality screen. The BMMCC records internally so you don't need external recording. I personally have become used to monitoring LOG or FILM modes with a LUT. To each his own though.

[Zak Forsman]

I agree with Aaron. I'll be using my SmallHD 502 with the BMMCC for everything from LUTs to frame masking to anamorphic desqueeze to focus assist and exposure tools. Also picked up the sunhood, and friction mount for it so I only need to use one hand to reposition the monitor. Definitely recommended for anyone who has the 501 or 502. What's also nice is my 502 uses the same LP-E6 batteries as the Micro.

[squig]

I reckon SmallHD will redesign the sidefinder to fix the ghosting issue, which would make the 501/502 a great EVF for the micro cine too

Given that BMD are busy rolling out the Ursa mini 4.6k, and Australians spend most of January at the beach; I don't think we're gonna see the micro cine for at least another month or three. They haven't enabled the global shutter on the 4.6k yet; global shutter firmware bugs could be holding up both cameras. Better that BMD take the time to get it right than turn us into a crash test zombie horde.

[IronFilm]

Yeah I don't know why they just didn't combine the 2 and make a 4K Micro with SDI out.

Because that would take longer to design, and be even more expensive to make.

[Guest Ebrahim Saadawi]

Anyone going with the studio 4K version?

Shame the video assist doesn't do 4K, seems a great size.... Atomos and Oddysey seem a bit daft to couple up with the BMSC 4K, size wise.

Dont mistake the 4k one as a 4k version of the micro cinema camera, its a whole different camera with no common parts inside even processors, just the outer casing. 

-The Micro cinema camera has a s16 native 1080p sensor with 13 stops of DR and 12bit raw and LOG encoding, along with a switchable Global shutter mode. It's V2 sensor of the Pocket Cinema camera. Native ISO is 800 and as we know it can be pushed to 1600. 

-The 4K micro studio camera has a different s16 sized sensor with native UHD resolution, Rec.709 DR of about 8 stops, no LOG encoding, doesn't record internally at all, has a maximum ISO of 200 and 400 is unusable (understandeable, same s16 size with much more pixels) and has a ridiculous amount of aliasing. I mean ridiculous, the worst I've ever seen on a shirt. 

So, very very different cameras. One is for film, the other is for TV studios with bright lights and full supporting gear where rec.709 is required, lowlight is not required, and aliasing is handeled and no recording is needed. It's a studio camera. 

I shot a local studio gig for broadcast on the 4K studio cameras (the large one with the same UHD sensor/image), and it's just horrible outside of its normal habitat, highly lit studios and rec.709 broadcasting. I made them replace them with the 1080p versions (pocket camera sensor) as they didn't need 4K at all (SD broadcaster) for the higher DR and much better lowlight, and lower aliasing, they're reporting a hugely improved image and usability. 

Be very careful thinking the 4K micro camera is a 4K version of the Micro camera. 

This whole idea that then low light is misconceived. The 5DMK3 is widely known for being a good low light camera but in reality it's no better than the BM cameras.

The 5DIII (Raw and h.264) has MUCH better lowlight performance than all blackmagic cameras. Period. 

The amount of noise at 6400 ISO is similar to the amount of noise on the BM pocket camera at 1600 ISO (best lowlight BM camera), and similar to the BM4K at 400 ISO. 

Just better in lowlight. 

you don't know WTF you're talking about.  Troll harder.

Be polite and don't insult anyone. 

[Guest Ebrahim Saadawi]

It is a good price, but I don't think it's necessarily the right match for the BMMCC. No LUT support, limited scopes, mid-quality screen. The BMMCC records internally so you don't need external recording. I personally have become used to monitoring LOG or FILM modes with a LUT. To each his own though.

Keep in mind the Blackmagic Video Assist speaks to the BM micro cameras, as in it transmits the menus/overlays and you can change settings using the touch screen, just as if it were an internal touch LCD. And blackmagic cameras menus/UI are much more oriented to touch usage than buttons. With any other monitor you'll be forced to change settings and talk to the camera using the few tiny buttons on the body. Just a piece of information if anyone missed it. 

[Zak Forsman]

Keep in mind the Blackmagic Video Assist speaks to the BM micro cameras, as in it transmits the menus/overlays and you can change settings using the touch screen, just as if it were an internal touch LCD. And blackmagic cameras menus/UI are much more oriented to touch usage than buttons. With any other monitor you'll be forced to change settings and talk to the camera using the few tiny buttons on the body. Just a piece of information if anyone missed it. 

I wasn't aware that was the case. I watched a video recently with a guy who has the VA and the Micro Studio 4K and he said he couldn't use the VA to operate the Micro's menus. Have a link or something where you've read that the VA's touchscreen can be used to navigate the camera's menu system, and not just its own? I'd like to read up on that.

[Guest Ebrahim Saadawi]

Zak, I didn't read it I got it from a BM official, that when connected through HDMI it can control the micro cinema camera menus.

 

Add on to my previous 4k vs 1080p versions: on the 4K studio micro camera, there is no ISO control, it's fixed at 200.

[Zak Forsman]

okay, thanks. truth be told, i'm skeptical that kind of functionality can be passed over HDMI. I'm sure you can see the Micro's menus, but when it comes to using the touchscreen to navigate them I'm not so sure. With the Micro Studio, this guy could monitor the camera's menus with his VA, but still needed to use the buttons on the camera to navigate them. Jump to about 6 mins in...

https://youtu.be/j7pvcTs-sfc?t=6m

I'd love the be wrong, but even if the VA could be used as a touchscreen for the Micro, how would it know which of the two menu systems you are intending to access and navigate? my gut tells me the rep you spoke to got it wrong.