cojocaru27 Posted November 30, 2015 Share Posted November 30, 2015 Ebrahim, "It's V2 sensor of the Pocket Cinema camera." - means that the micro cinema has a new version of the sensor of the pocket, as in v2 version two? or is exactly the same sensor but with a new processor? could make a difference i think.on the other hand, i am really looking forward for some footage of this camera. For me the DR and the colors, as in cinema organic look, is more important than the resolution. That's why i didn't consider gh4 or other cameras till now. The real battle, for me, is between this one and the sony A7s II ( as a workable version of 5d mark3 with magic lantern).These are the two cameras that can deliver that organic look that i am looking up to in this budget.And if the micro camera can come close to A7s II, i am sold cause i have lenses for it. Otherwise i have to invest in a camera body plus lenses which is changing the situation.thank you all for the answers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squig Posted November 30, 2015 Share Posted November 30, 2015 Be polite and don't insult anyone. I was merely responding to an insulting post in kind; I'm not Jesus, I don't always have patience for trolls. I stand by everything I've said, and when I get my hands on the micro cine the test results will speak for themselves. I'd appreciate it if you didn't repost my quotes out of context. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jagnje Posted November 30, 2015 Share Posted November 30, 2015 I just got to test the micro productio camera. Not bad for a remote operated camera. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cojocaru27 Posted November 30, 2015 Share Posted November 30, 2015 micro production is a totally different story. not the same sensor and different output all together.the hopes are high for the micro cinema camera and still no one saw any footage from it. Although, worst case scenario, it as good as the old pocket camera plus a better rolling shutter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zak Forsman Posted November 30, 2015 Share Posted November 30, 2015 okay, so i'm upping my game here and taking one for the team. before the weekend I switched from renting a Pocket to owning a Pocket. it's shipping from Paris (I got a great deal ($565) from Lovinpix.com on a new one) so I expect to hear my Micro Cinema Cam will ship anytime between now and the day my new Pocket arrives at my doorstep... because again, that's how these things usually work. You're all welcome. Cinegain, 1tkman, mercer and 1 other 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Kotlos Posted November 30, 2015 Share Posted November 30, 2015 This whole idea that the pocket/micro cine isn't good in low light is misconceived. The 5DMK3 is widely known for being a good low light camera but in reality it's no better than the BM cameras. The highest usable ISO on the 5D raw is 6400 (and you must ETTR) digital gain kicks in @ 1600 ISO and noise will be a problem beyond that if you're not careful. To get a good filmic DOF I normally set the aperture to f/5.6. To get the same shot on a pocket/micro cine with a speedbooster I'd be shooting at f/2.8 to match DOF and I'd gain 1 and 2/3 stops of light from the speedbooster which means I could get the shot with the pocket/micro set at 800 ISO. The noise on the BM cameras @ 800 ISO looks a lot more filmic than the ugly chroma fixed pattern noise on the 5D @ 6400 ISO. This is very true. When comparing low light performance you to account for the differences in DoF. So a FF has to be more than 2 stops better than a m4/3 camera in order to be really useful. Sure you can shoot at f/1.4 but in most shooting situations I doubt you would be using such a shallow depth of field. Then there are the faster lenses (T/0.95) or the speedboosters that make the differences even smaller. RAW or very high bitrate is also very important in producing pleasing results in low light. After using the BMPCC I can attest that it is very good in low light. The only problem it has is the hot pixels with the high gain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mercer Posted November 30, 2015 Share Posted November 30, 2015 okay, so i'm upping my game here and taking one for the team. before the weekend I switched from renting a Pocket to owning a Pocket. it's shipping from Paris (I got a great deal ($565) from Lovinpix.com on a new one) so I expect to hear my Micro Cinema Cam will ship anytime between now and the day my new Pocket arrives at my doorstep... because again, that's how these things usually work. You're all welcome. You liked the pocket that much? Nice. Look at it this way, you can do a two cam shoot and only need to pay the actors for half the time. Zak Forsman 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tupp Posted November 30, 2015 Share Posted November 30, 2015 okay, so i'm upping my game here and taking one for the team. before the weekend I switched from renting a Pocket to owning a Pocket. it's shipping from Paris (I got a great deal ($565) from Lovinpix.com on a new one) so I expect to hear my Micro Cinema Cam will ship anytime between now and the day my new Pocket arrives at my doorstep... because again, that's how these things usually work. You're all welcome.Thanks for expediting the release of the Micro Cinema Camera with your BMPCC order! Just curious: How much was the shipping from Paris to L.A.? Zak Forsman 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zak Forsman Posted November 30, 2015 Share Posted November 30, 2015 Thanks for expediting the release of the Micro Cinema Camera with your BMPCC order! Just curious: How much was the shipping from Paris to L.A.?about 30€ / $35 for shipping. the sale is over now but over the weekend the BMPCC was only 533€, and because I didn't have to pay the 166€ VAT on top of it, it made for a great deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squig Posted November 30, 2015 Share Posted November 30, 2015 This really sold me on the low light ability of the pocket https://vimeo.com/80348441The other thing I didn't mention is dynamic range. @ 800 ISO you've got 13 stops to play with on the pocket/micro cine. Matching DOF on the 5DMK3 (vs speedboosted pocket/micro cine) you've got about 9 stops of latitude (raw 6400 ISO).@Don Kotlos Yeah, when you take the 2 stop DOF difference and speedbooster (1 & 2/3 stops) into account, 800 ISO on the pocket/micro cine @ f/2.8 is the equivalent of 10,000 ISO on a full frame camera @ f/5.6. And 800 ISO on the pocket is a hell of a lot cleaner than 10,000 ISO is on a 5dMK3 raw or an A7s (with more latitude). Shoot at f/2 and you're matching 20,000 ISO full frame @ f/4.I didn't consider the pocket when it came out because it didn't shoot raw initially, it had aliasing/moire issues, and the small sensor meant investing in a bunch of fast M4/3 lenses. Now with the speedbooster, mosaic filter, LUTs (smallHD 501), and raw recording, the pocket/micro cine look like THE DSLR replacement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ebrahim Saadawi Posted December 1, 2015 Share Posted December 1, 2015 I have absolutely no idea what you're logic is.We have two cameras with two sensors. One is cleaner at high ISOs and one is noisier. You're arguing the noisier sensor is better in lowlight performance. Here you go: Take a s16 crop of the 5DIII sensor (raw crop mode) (and you'll be shooting with a s16 sensor with the same DOF and all characteristics) and compare it to the pocket camera image above 800 ISO. The Pocket sensor will simply fall apart beyond 1600 ISO, while the 5D MKIII will go solidly for 6400 ISO and ever higher. The Canon sensor is cleaner, has a lower noise floor. Period.Is the pocket camera a great camera? yes. One of the best images I've shot in digital history, but is definitely much more limited in lowlight conditions vs the 5D MKIII and doesn't give you the ability to go higher than 1600 ISO, it makes you need faster glass and/or more lights. Use both and you'll see how this goes. And compared to the a7s? using the same gear and lenses you'll be able to get a great clean shot with a7s in a lowlight condition and you'll simply get a black image in that situation on the pocket camera. It's inferior in lowlight sensitivity. No doubt. But not bad. Still a very capable lowlight shooter at 1600 ISO with fast glass. The 5D MKIII and A7s are absolutely amazing in how you can go into a dark scene and turn a small ISO dial and see the image getting bright and brighter and clean, pure awesomeness. Something you just don't get to do with the BM, it's a camera to be shot at 800 ISO, light your scene accordingly, more of a film style type of shooting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonesy Jones Posted December 1, 2015 Share Posted December 1, 2015 about 30€ / $35 for shipping. the sale is over now but over the weekend the BMPCC was only 533€, and because I didn't have to pay the 166€ VAT on top of it, it made for a great deal.Wow. I just think it's amazing how so many bash BM but at the end of the day those things hold their value and are amazing tools. I bought my pocket during the half off sale and sold it over a year later for quite a nice profit. I currently own the original BMCC with mft which I picked up after I sold the pocket. I LOVE the image from the BMCC and feel like I have my camera for years to come. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Kotlos Posted December 1, 2015 Share Posted December 1, 2015 @Don Kotlos Yeah, when you take the 2 stop DOF difference and speedbooster (1 & 2/3 stops) into account, 800 ISO on the pocket/micro cine @ f/2.8 is the equivalent of 10,000 ISO on a full frame camera @ f/5.6. And 800 ISO on the pocket is a hell of a lot cleaner than 10,000 ISO is on a 5dMK3 raw or an A7s (with more latitude). Shoot at f/2 and you're matching 20,000 ISO full frame @ f/4.speedbooster will allow you to have a larger aperture but that will decrease your dof... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squig Posted December 1, 2015 Share Posted December 1, 2015 @Ebrahim Saadawi If films were all shot at infinity focus a full frame sensor would be much better in low light than an s16 sensor, but that's not how we shoot films. Maybe you're not understanding what the speedbooster does. The speedbooster reduces the crop factor from 3x to 1.75x. Here's an example: I shot this with a 5DMK3 with a 24mm lens @ f/5.6 @ 6400 ISO. I could shoot it with a BMD pocket & get the same FOV and DOF with a 14mm lens @f/2.8 800 ISO with a speedbooster. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squig Posted December 1, 2015 Share Posted December 1, 2015 Sure I could have shot that @ f/2.8 and 1600 ISO but the background would be OOF and I didn't want it OOF. A smaller sensor has a deeper DOF which allows you shoot at wider apertures, that's where bigger sensors lose their light capturing advantage in the majority of shooting scenarios. If you only shoot landscapes obviously that wouldn't be the case. Sensor specs are one thing, camera and shot setup are another thing entirely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lintelfilm Posted December 1, 2015 Share Posted December 1, 2015 Which 14mm lens at f2.8 rivals which 24mm lens at f5.6? There are a number of full frame 24mm lenses that can rival the very best lenses at that kind of aperture. I don't know of any 14mm lens that can claim to do that at f2.8. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jagnje Posted December 1, 2015 Share Posted December 1, 2015 @Ebrahim Saadawi If films were all shot at infinity focus a full frame sensor would be much better in low light than an s16 sensor, but that's not how we shoot films. Maybe you're not understanding what the speedbooster does. The speedbooster reduces the crop factor from 3x to 1.75x. Here's an example: I shot this with a 5DMK3 with a 24mm lens @ f/5.6 @ 6400 ISO. I could shoot it with a BMD pocket & get the same FOV and DOF with a 14mm lens @f/2.8 800 ISO with a speedbooster. Ok, a speedbooster bmpcc against a 5d...what you are comparing here is rougly an almost aspc setup that will max out at asa 1600 vs. a fullframe that will max out at 6400. Ok, so you have an option to stop down a 24mm lens to a desired f stop on a full frame...you turn the little dial raise the iso and its done. On a bmpcc you NEED a speedbooster and you NEED a 14mm 2.8 lens. And it NEEDS to be wide open. Get it? Yes there are times when a smaller sensor is more benefitial, but very rearly there are times when being restricted to low iso values is benefitial. I'm not going to argue your math with lenses, dof and such...yes it does what you say, but your workflow is backwards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squig Posted December 1, 2015 Share Posted December 1, 2015 Which 14mm lens at f2.8 rivals which 24mm lens at f5.6? There are a number of full frame 24mm lenses that can rival the very best lenses at that kind of aperture. I don't know of any 14mm lens that can claim to do that at f2.8.Tokina 11-16mm I'm not going to argue your math with lenses, dof and such...yes it does what you say, but your workflow is backwards. My workflow is backwards? Lulz! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squig Posted December 1, 2015 Share Posted December 1, 2015 Yeah Squig and I use the camera as it's meant to be used, not how a DSLR test shooter would. xDThx for that informative contribution to the discussion mate. You must be a real professional. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lintelfilm Posted December 1, 2015 Share Posted December 1, 2015 Tokina 11-16mm I use my 11-16 with my BMPCC (which is my favourite camera btw) and yes it's a really great lens but its not without issues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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