Yet Another NX500 Color Test

[mercer]

I know, I know, you guys are probably sick and tired of my color tests, but with every clip I upload, I gain a wealth of information and tips from a few of the members. And the ones who hate my attempts are usually kind enough to keep it to themselves... No seriously, any tips you have is much appreciated. In this video, I went down to the boardwalk in Ocean City, NJ and took some shots. I tried to do a vintage color grade, but with every video I have ever uploaded, I am not too sure how it looks... being a newbie and all... and possibly a little blind. Anyway, thanks for looking!!!

 

Oh yeah, I think I definitely need to get me some Neat Video. 

[Liam]

what isos? did you add any grain? did look noisy, but I thought it kinda worked. very stylistic grade of course, but nice

[TheRenaissanceMan]

Before you go stylized, just try to get a natural look. You need that strong starting point; THEN get creative with your grade later. 

Try this. Set the camera on a tripod in front of a wide scene. You want a variety of colors, textures, and light. Then, record 30 seconds of that scene with each picture profile. Default settings, everything at 0. Then go through again with contrast lowered. Then go again with saturation lowered. Then go again with contrast and saturation lowered. Write the order down in a notebook or label each with a voiceover as you're recording. Then go home, sit down in front of your monitor, and really look at what each profile and setting change is doing to your image. Mess around with raising shadows, recovering highlights, messing with saturation, manipulating colors, etc. 

Do that, and you'll figure out what's what real quick. Thorough hands-on testing is the only way to get a definitive answer on what settings work best for you. 

[mercer]

Yeah, I only really like about half of those shots, but I learn from mistakes, so I don't hold back on posting videos. Plus, more experienced people may see something, and I'll end up learning something. Sekhar is great that way. But yes, I was a moron and put my nd filter on before I turned on my camera and even though it was cloudy, I was getting a bad glare, so all of the beach shots, I shot at 800 ISO, so they look like crap, but how do you have a boardwalk video without a couple shots of the beach? I also think I am stretching the footage to its limits in post, I have to dial some stuff back, but it kinda looks like vintage footage, so I am getting there. I think it's a lot better than my first few videos with this camera... I hope. Anyway, as always Liam... Thanks for looking!!!

[Guest Ebrahim Saadawi]

Nice work. Keep going at it.

Some opinions:

-The lower-end of the spectrum is too crushed to black, then these solid blacks ae lifted to grey. I'd much prefer if less crushing to blacks occured before raising the shadows for a vintage look. You'll still get the same ''look'' but just with more information.

-Noise is too much. If it's added in-post remove it. If it's in-camera, clean it with neat video (or shoot at lower ISOs)

-Upload in 1080p. For some reason Vimeo showing your video in tiny resolution. I'd upload to youtube in 1080p with a high bit-rate to give us a better look. If you have the connection speed, uploading to 4K or 2.5K Youtube (even upscaled 1080p) gives the ultimate web quality available anywhere.

[mercer]

Nice work. Keep going at it.

Some opinions:

-The lower-end of the spectrum is too crushed to black, then these solid blacks ae lifted to grey. I'd much prefer if less crushing to blacks occured before raising the shadows for a vintage look. You'll still get the same ''look'' but just with more information.

-Noise is too much. If it's added in-post remove it. If it's in-camera, clean it with neat video (or shoot at lower ISOs)

-Upload in 1080p. For some reason Vimeo showing your video in tiny resolution. I'd upload to youtube in 1080p with a high bit-rate to give us a better look. If you have the connection speed, uploading to 4K or 2.5K Youtube (even upscaled 1080p) gives the ultimate web quality available anywhere.

Thanks Ebrahim. I used a Fuji rec709 as a base LUT, then raised my blacks and tweaked my master and blue curves a hair. Yeah, I stupidly shot at an 800 ISO, with a variable nd, for all of the beach shots. So, I basically over lit the shot and put a few pairs of sunglasses on it. Noise. I need to get a loupe or something. I don't know why the video is so small, it's fine on mine. You don't really need to see it any bigger, some of those shots just get worse the bigger they are. There are a few shots I like a lot... The telescope viewing machine and the roller coaster tracks were probably my most successful grades. Anyway, thanks for looking, and I'll keep at it. 

[kidzrevil]

Nice work. Keep going at it.

Some opinions:

-The lower-end of the spectrum is too crushed to black, then these solid blacks ae lifted to grey. I'd much prefer if less crushing to blacks occured before raising the shadows for a vintage look. You'll still get the same ''look'' but just with more information.

-Noise is too much. If it's added in-post remove it. If it's in-camera, clean it with neat video (or shoot at lower ISOs)

-Upload in 1080p. For some reason Vimeo showing your video in tiny resolution. I'd upload to youtube in 1080p with a high bit-rate to give us a better look. If you have the connection speed, uploading to 4K or 2.5K Youtube (even upscaled 1080p) gives the ultimate web quality available anywhere.

there's no technical way to do a creative grade...if the look you are going for is crushed blacks lifted to give a vintage "film" look then go for it. Expose bright or dark to display the textures YOU want to show. 

 

Uploading in 1080 will help though and investing in Neat Video helps with chrominance & luminance noise. good luck

[Bioskop.Inc]

Looks really nice, keep experimenting.

For better Vimeo uploading/playback, a good trick is to upload in ProRes Proxy & 2k. If you upload in 1080 & H264, Vimeo just re-transcodes your your already compressed footage evenmore & that's why you get a worse picture than you started out with.

Don't ever bother adding grain on Vimeo as it just doesn't work - if you do add grain then really over do it. For Film Convert, for example, you need to set the grain level above 150% for it to show up on Vimeo.

But as everyone says, if you want a clean picture then Neat Video is the way to go - its also has the best sharpening tool out there.

[mercer]

Looks really nice, keep experimenting.

For better Vimeo uploading/playback, a good trick is to upload in ProRes Proxy & 2k. If you upload in 1080 & H264, Vimeo just re-transcodes your your already compressed footage evenmore & that's why you get a worse picture than you started out with.

Don't ever bother adding grain on Vimeo as it just doesn't work - if you do add grain then really over do it. For Film Convert, for example, you need to set the grain level above 150% for it to show up on Vimeo.

But as everyone says, if you want a clean picture then Neat Video is the way to go - its also has the best sharpening tool out there.

Good stuff thanks, never knew that prores proxy 2k trick. Honestly, I just hit share through FCPX. Do you export a copy from your NLE, then upload directly to Vimeo, or do you share via your software?

Is Neat Video a slow process to denoise a clip?

I have heard some people denoise all of their footage, is that true... Even clean footage?

[Bioskop.Inc]

Good stuff thanks, never knew that prores proxy 2k trick. Honestly, I just hit share through FCPX. Do you export a copy from your NLE, then upload directly to Vimeo, or do you share via your software?

Is Neat Video a slow process to denoise a clip?

I have heard some people denoise all of their footage, is that true... Even clean footage?

Yeah, it does seem to work - big thanks to Hans Punk for putting me onto this trick.

I export & then upload manually - you do get a message, once its uploaded, saying that your settings weren't correct. Next time I upload something, i'm going to export a full-res version & then downsample with MPEGStreamclip.

Neat Video can be slow, but is worth the wait.

Not sure why you'd want to denoise clean footage, but give it a go & see if it makes any difference.

What are you using to colour your footage?

[mercer]

Yeah, it does seem to work - big thanks to Hans Punk for putting me onto this trick.

I export & then upload manually - you do get a message, once its uploaded, saying that your settings weren't correct. Next time I upload something, i'm going to export a full-res version & then downsample with MPEGStreamclip.

Neat Video can be slow, but is worth the wait.

Not sure why you'd want to denoise clean footage, but give it a go & see if it makes any difference.

What are you using to colour your footage?

I use FCPX with Color Finale. With this test, I used a base LUT, I think it was a Fuji Rec709, that messed with the master curve and blue curve a hair, then used an Impulz LUT at the end. 

[Bioskop.Inc]

I use FCPX with Color Finale. With this test, I used a base LUT, I think it was a Fuji Rec709, that messed with the master curve and blue curve a hair, then used an Impulz LUT at the end. 

Is it using 8-bit vid files - as the noise (especially the clouds - macroblocky), might be down to pushing the codec too far.

LUTs are fine if you've got a robust codec, but with 8-bit you've really got to watch how many layers you use.

Try grading without using LUTs - it'll take longer, but once you've got the look you want you can save it as a preference & then just apply it like a LUT to future footage.

[mercer]

Is it using 8-bit vid files - as the noise (especially the clouds - macroblocky), might be down to pushing the codec too far.

LUTs are fine if you've got a robust codec, but with 8-bit you've really got to watch how many layers you use.

Try grading without using LUTs - it'll take longer, but once you've got the look you want you can save it as a preference & then just apply it like a LUT to future footage.

Thanks bioskop, I'll give that a try. I always end up stepping on my own foot, I put the good in with the bad, I learn better that way, but then I am not sure if people are referring to the shots I already know suck, or ones I think turned out okay. For instance, the last shot was crap, crazy artifacts and noise, I just felt it looked a little ethereal, so I went with it. Believe it or not, I am not posting these tests proudly, thinking I've nailed it, but I wouldn't have known what macroblocking was if I didn't post them and you were kind enough to reply. I am in the middle of redoing a couple of the "better" shots with less layers and adjustments.

Thanks again!!!

[Guest Ebrahim Saadawi]

I denoise even clean footage to make the codec stronger to grade. It cleans banding, macroblocking, weird colours, edge pixelation, so not just high ISO noise. It's straight out magic. 

You can send me full jpegs of any of your footage to show you the effect.

[mercer]

Okay, thanks for the tips. I just went through my clips and did a lighter grade and shortened it. I started out lifting the lows and dropping the highs with the curves, and then added an m31 LUT, then went back to the curves and readjusted... And I cleaned my eyes. The last shot still looks a little funky to me. Does anyone know why wide angle, infinity focus, shots in 4K seem off? Seriously, thanks for all your guy's help!!! Hopefully this one doesn't suck.

 

[kidzrevil]

Good stuff thanks, never knew that prores proxy 2k trick. Honestly, I just hit share through FCPX. Do you export a copy from your NLE, then upload directly to Vimeo, or do you share via your software?

Is Neat Video a slow process to denoise a clip?

I have heard some people denoise all of their footage, is that true... Even clean footage?

absolutely. I denoise ALL my footage, it can be shot at iso 100 on an a7s and I will. When you run neat video it will show you it detects high to low frequency noise you can't see. Working in a 32bit color space(or max bit depth in adobe premiere) it blends pixels together to create "new" pixels. Also chrominance noise can be hard to detect with the naked eye but add a lut that dogs deep to pull up low levels of saturation and you'll see yup, there is noise ,!

[Bioskop.Inc]

Okay, thanks for the tips. I just went through my clips and did a lighter grade and shortened it. I started out lifting the lows and dropping the highs with the curves, and then added an m31 LUT, then went back to the curves and readjusted... And I cleaned my eyes. The last shot still looks a little funky to me. Does anyone know why wide angle, infinity focus, shots in 4K seem off? Seriously, thanks for all your guy's help!!! Hopefully this one doesn't suck.

Looks a lot cleaner now & the last shot seems fine.

Are you panning on a tripod? Didn't seem smooth, kinda stuttered, but it might be my computer. If you were using a tripod, does it have some tension knobs (damn, that's not the right word) - if it does use them & some elastic bands (always use elastic bands for panning sideways).

[mercer]

Elastic bands... WHAAAAAT? Lol. No, seriously... how do you use elastic bands when you pan? But yes, I was using a tripod and it was a little cool on the boardwalk, so I think I was shivering... I have an old manfrotto that works like new... so the stuttering was all me. Thanks again for your help.

Looks a lot cleaner now & the last shot seems fine.

Are you panning on a tripod? Didn't seem smooth, kinda stuttered, but it might be my computer. If you were using a tripod, does it have some tension knobs (damn, that's not the right word) - if it does use them & some elastic bands (always use elastic bands for panning sideways).

I denoise even clean footage to make the codec stronger to grade. It cleans banding, macroblocking, weird colours, edge pixelation, so not just high ISO noise. It's straight out magic. 

You can send me full jpegs of any of your footage to show you the effect.

Thanks Ebrahim, I may take you up on that offer in a couple days. I swear, you should be a paid spokesman for Neat Video.

 

[mercer]

absolutely. I denoise ALL my footage, it can be shot at iso 100 on an a7s and I will. When you run neat video it will show you it detects high to low frequency noise you can't see. Working in a 32bit color space(or max bit depth in adobe premiere) it blends pixels together to create "new" pixels. Also chrominance noise can be hard to detect with the naked eye but add a lut that dogs deep to pull up low levels of saturation and you'll see yup, there is noise ,!

Good point, Neat Video will probably be my next software investment. Thanks. 

[Bioskop.Inc]

Elastic bands... WHAAAAAT? Lol. No, seriously... how do you use elastic bands when you pan? But yes, I was using a tripod and it was a little cool on the boardwalk, so I think I was shivering... I have an old manfrotto that works like new... so the stuttering was all me. Thanks again for your help

Attach the elastic bands to the handle & then you gently pull them one way or the other - the more you add or the stronger the band, the slower/smoother the pan. This was a tip from a professional who said until you get used to the amount of tension needed for a smooth pan (or get a better tripod, which allows you to alter the tension), this method would teach you as well as giving you smooth panning shots.

Sounds stupid, but really works!