Upgrading to an A7RII a mistake (Not a light read, Thoughts?)

[exomonkeyman]

Hello there EOS forums.

The following read will not be for the faint of heart or for the light readers. This will be aiming at people who wouldn't mind taken some time to help with a professional opinion.

Trying to keep this short which as you can i failed miserably, iv'e been holding of on this post for quite a few weeks. 
I wanna say that i'm in love with my filmmaking/videography just a tad more than my photography but i still love to get into photography professionally before video in some sense, but anyway.

About a month ago i upgraded from my 6 year old trusty canon 60D to a Sony A7RII pretty big jump yes.
I was absolutely gobsmacked by it's video capabilities

• 120fps 720p (So dramatic and impacting)
• Slog 2 (Outstanding amounts of DR and grading leeway)
• Internal 4K 100m
• Inbuilt IS (Fantastic for non IS primes, literally you can hand hold them and get no micro jitters)
• S35 mode for much improved ISO noise.
• I can live of Samyang primes for video and get great t1.5 bokeh all day long with sharp results.
• It's got a great codec, focus peaking, zebras, and audio levels etc etc.

My video feels like it's gained massively from this and the video just dominates anything else DSLR related on the market (My opinion)

Sadly the same can not be said with the photography side of things. The past month it's been a struggle.

• My biggest problem is Sony lenses. They are just so expensive for what you get. Obviously you buy a £2000+ camera you probably should have £2000 to spend on lenses. That's my problem i just don't and i did not judge how expensive sony FE lenses actually are. 

Even if i had the money to spend on the lenses i don't think there that good for the money (Yes there sharp, yes there quick, yes they look small and tidy, yes there contrasty) 

But sigma art's are to yet they cost less Canon L lenses are to. So is Nikkor.

FYI i'm using Ebay prices and they vary a lot.

In rough calculation £2700 i spent on my A7RII with a Sony FE 24-240 a lens that costs £800+ but i got for £600 not a very good lens for that insane price it's not even zeiss. (Great AF, Great IS, massive light loss and stale images... simply put it gets the job done)
That same price could get me a Nikon d610 + 50mm f1.4G + 85mm f1.8G + 24-85mm + 80-200 f2.8 (very rough estimates)

I reall like the A7RII body.. just i see no future with spending £750(ebay price) on just one Sony FE 16-35mm ... just F4. I'm sure it's sharp but for me (personally) not enough to inherit that kind of money.
Sony just don't seem to have well priced lenses that work very nicely with the emount FE system. I doubt i will see anything as well.

And lastly iv'e had to move from lightroom to capture one pro 8 which i actually really like but the images simply look poor on lightroom (horrible looking noise and terrible colors and really bad highlight control)

TLDR:
I'm in love with the video image this camera can produce, 120fps, Slog2, 4K, Inbuit IS etc etc.
I love is so much that i'd never forgive my self if i let that kind of video go for canon dslr video or nikkon ):
But i feel like my photography has taken a massive hit by the abilitie to not buy well priced lenses... all them sigma,tamron,canon,nikkor lenses that i cant have ):

It almost feels clever on the buissness side of things to go for photography continue with that to my fullest effects and then maybe reinvest into the A7RII system or even the A7SII syetems.
Or viceversa do more video work and or photography just with what i got and actually invest into the nikon gear.
I'm also fresh out of canons cameras so i do miss that sexy mechanical shutter and big realable body of canons. So this is diffrent for me.. but the diffrence aside i cant live of these £550+ F4 lenses.

Lastly Today i'm hoping to go out and do some photography with my crazy little dogs to test the AF system on the A7RII with the 24-240 vs my 60D with a 70-200 f4 as iv'e had great great results from my 60D with the kit 55-250mm lense in the past.
That mini shoot will probably be the deciding factor weather i sell and go nikkor or back to canon and sacrifice that amazing video with better photos at the end of the day.

As said not a light read but i'm doubting there will be a reply but at least i got this written out.

[Andrew Reid]

Have you not heard of the Metabones adapter for you Canon lenses?

Yes AF and lenses are one area for Sony to work further on. And yes the FE lenses are too costly. Agree with you there!

I am using mostly Canon glass and manual focus rather than AF. With Canon lenses on A7 bodies, AF can sometimes be very fast especially on the A7R II but the hit rate is poor compared to the FE lenses. The Zeiss ZA lenses via EA-LA4 adapter solve this but then another big expensive investment.

For stills compare the handling of the Olympus E-M5 II or Fujifilm X-T1 to the Sony bodies and you will see where they have got it badly wrong

[Nikkor]

Buy manual glass, and yes you can have cheap and good quality.

I have a d800 and the tyical af lenses ,135 2,28 1.4, 85 1.4, 70-200 2.8,etc... But since I got manual lenses, I mostly leave the AF stuff at home, it's big and clumsy, and my eye sight is good enouh to focus by eye.

The a7rII is even better for is, you have an evf, and you have access to all lens mounts, minolta, fd,etc... Sell that ugly zoom (you can adapt your canon zoom) and spend those 600pounds on a complete manual setup. (Thats what I would do)

i don't understand the part where you say your photography has taken a hit, if I understand correctly you were using the canon 60d before, with no special lenses.

[exomonkeyman]

Have you not heard of the Metabones adapter for you Canon lenses?

Yes AF and lenses are one area for Sony to work further on. And yes the FE lenses are too costly. Agree with you there!

I am using mostly Canon glass and manual focus rather than AF. With Canon lenses on A7 bodies, AF can sometimes be very fast especially on the A7R II but the hit rate is poor compared to the FE lenses. The Zeiss ZA lenses via EA-LA4 adapter solve this but then another big expensive investment.

For stills compare the handling of the Olympus E-M5 II or Fujifilm X-T1 to the Sony bodies and you will see where they have got it badly wrong

Thanks you for the time to read and reply. I got a commlite adapter instead to save all that money and i had big intentions to use canon glass 100% of the time,  and iv'e tried a canon 70-200 f4 (bad af) 18-55 kit (bad af) 55-250 (bad af) 50mm f1.8 (No worky of course) Sigma 70-300mm (no worky) it got to a point were it just started feeling to unreliable.

Iv'e heard great and also bad things also about the Metabones adapter as well. I ended up kinda just leaving EF glass out of the picture as i would love accuracy throughout the entire focal length especially at 200mm. Again just feels off to have 399 points yet i use MF

Buy manual glass, and yes you can have cheap and good quality.

I have a d800 and the tyical af lenses ,135 2,28 1.4, 85 1.4, 70-200 2.8,etc... But since I got manual lenses, I mostly leave the AF stuff at home, it's big and clumsy, and my eye sight is good enouh to focus by eye.

The a7rII is even better for is, you have an evf, and you have access to all lens mounts, minolta, fd,etc... Sell that ugly zoom (you can adapt your canon zoom) and spend those 600pounds on a complete manual setup. (Thats what I would do)

i don't understand the part where you say your photography has taken a hit, if I understand correctly you were using the canon 60d before, with no special lenses.

Wow really interesting to see how many people use manual focus as there main option. Something i didn't mention is that i'm able to accurately manual focus my samyang 35mm t1.5 cine lens in nearly every scenario thanks to do the viewfinder and focus peaking and easy zoom i just don't like the idea of relying on myself to snap perfect focus all day long but really interesting to see this.

 

Also when it comes to action sports you must have fast AF unless your super pro and just love manual focus just thinking of action sports which i guess this camera wasn't designs for.

[Jpr]

I use the cheaper Sony/zeiss lenses like 55 1.8 when I want AF and then use all manual Contax zeiss . Cheaper and amazing quality. For £1000 I have 55 1.8 zony, cy 28 2.0, cy 85 2.8, cy 100-300 f4-5.6. Stunning glass that works on my nx1 too (when not using 16-50s).

[Andrew Reid]

Instead of spending so much more on Sony's lenses, it might be an idea to keep a little pet 5D Mark II body for AF with Canon glass, and let your A7R II do all the video and manual focus stuff (+ low light). They are cheap used now... under 800 quid!

[exomonkeyman]

Instead of spending so much more on Sony's lenses, it might be an idea to keep a little pet 5D Mark II body for AF with Canon glass, and let your A7R II do all the video and manual focus stuff (+ low light). They are cheap used now... under 800 quid!

I did have the same idea would make sense cool idea.

[Nikkor]

But the 5dmkii only if it's not real sports because the AF is kind of lame.

[BrorSvensson]

Thanks you for the time to read and reply. I got a commlite adapter instead to save all that money and i had big intentions to use canon glass 100% of the time,  and iv'e tried a canon 70-200 f4 (bad af) 18-55 kit (bad af) 55-250 (bad af) 50mm f1.8 (No worky of course) Sigma 70-300mm (no worky) it got to a point were it just started feeling to unreliable.

Iv'e heard great and also bad things also about the Metabones adapter as well. I ended up kinda just leaving EF glass out of the picture as i would love accuracy throughout the entire focal length especially at 200mm. Again just feels off to have 399 points yet i use MF

Wow really interesting to see how many people use manual focus as there main option. Something i didn't mention is that i'm able to accurately manual focus my samyang 35mm t1.5 cine lens in nearly every scenario thanks to do the viewfinder and focus peaking and easy zoom i just don't like the idea of relying on myself to snap perfect focus all day long but really interesting to see this.

 

Also when it comes to action sports you must have fast AF unless your super pro and just love manual focus just thinking of action sports which i guess this camera wasn't designs for.

The commlite af with a7rii is way way inferior to the af with metabones v4 adapter. Its amazing how much difference the adapter makes. I'd also add in that i shoot 50% video 50% stills with my a7 and use manual focus primes for everything, i have a beautiful set of fast nikkor ai's.

[kidzrevil]

Does anyone knowif the a7rii and a7sii has the infamous sony blue color channel clipping issue ? U kno when you shoot LED lights in lets say a nightclub setting and you get that ugly clipping

[ntblowz]

You shoot with PP off, that will fix the clipping

 

I personally spend more money on lens and support gears than camera body, since camera body depreciate too fast and support gear will work with what ever camera you have. Lens doesn't depreciate too fast like body do.

[Andrew Reid]

But the 5dmkii only if it's not real sports because the AF is kind of lame.

Well get a 7D then. Even cheaper. And crop will help telephoto reach for sports.

Problem solved.

[kidzrevil]

You shoot with PP off, that will fix the clipping

 

I personally spend more money on lens and support gears than camera body, since camera body depreciate too fast and support gear will work with what ever camera you have. Lens doesn't depreciate too fast like body do.

are you sure ? That never fixed the issue on the a7s and really defeats the purpose of picture profiles with wide dynamic range

[Nikkor]

Well get a 7D then. Even cheaper. And crop will help telephoto reach for sports.

Problem solved.

But the difference between a 60D (he owns one) and a 7D is very small.

[exomonkeyman]

But the difference between a 60D (he owns one) and a 7D is very small.

7D Mark II always looked very impressive.

It's all a bit weird, i see no reason to stay with Sony for photography i simply dislike the way lightroom renders the colors and works with highlights with .ARW files i have to use a trial of capture one pro to get good color and ISO results and much better highlight control i kinda dislike the colors from sony in general but really i think i'm just bullshitting my self when i say that. Lenses too pricey and lack of adaptable lenses and again color and highlights especially ISO grain never looks as pleasing is me old Canon 60D.

 

But that video though, just amazing. I know for a fact i'm better of getting an A7Sii instead and also selling my 24-240mm FE lens and just using MF primes. The A7Sii will become just a video camera kinda how i'm already seeing the use for my A7Rii.

 

Thanks for all the replies btw guys (:

[mercer]

I am not a photographer, and barely a videographer, but maybe it would be a better idea, since the majority of your work is photography based, to get a D750 for stills, and a separate camera for video (maybe a RX10ii) Sell off your lenses and slowly build a good set of Nikkors and Sigma Art lenses. 

[Gpanazio]

Just bought one too, but I'm keeping a 6D for some still jobs.

[richg101]

I so often see worries from people regarding AF capabilities on the A7 range.  Personally I think when you have a camera with the capability to punch in (auto punch in with sony FE native lenses) then AF is completely pointless.  Ask anyone who uses the loxia zeiss lenses (35mm, 50mm and now a stellar 21mm), completely manual focus, and someone who has invested time into learning how to do things properly, they'll take the loxia over any oversized, flawed canon lens - flawed and bigger than it needs to be due to needing to be designed to avoid the mirror box.  

I do believe the sony 55mm fe lens outdoes the sigma art in every respect when we're getting to the nitty gritty and actually using it on the stunning 42mpx sensor.

Conversely I often look at the price of the FE lenses and am amazed how well priced they are..  the 28/2 is a perfect example.  The A7R2 and that 28mm will smoke anything on offer for canon use on a canon camera.  

   

[wolf33d]

I have the same problem as you. I have the A7R II.

But I can't be satisfied with still quality of 7D, 5DII (had both) and even 5DIII (had it also). 
As far as I am concerned I love A7R II still quality. 
What I hate is lenses, ergonomics and long exposure noise which are big issues for me. 

I love it too for video. 

My ideal set up would be a D810 for stills with a 14-24 for landscapes and a 85mm for portraits. 
And an A7S II with let's say 35/55/85mm for video. 

But this is too big, and too expensive. 

There is not a solution yet. A7R II was close thanks to its photo/video quality but still missing. 
5D4? Probably no 4K, not even HFR.... 
D820? Probably not before 1 year, probably 4K but will it have clean 120fps..? Then we are left with the DSLR problem for video : lack of EVF and nice focus peaking, tilt screen, ... 
 

I would just love a 5DIII body, with Canon menus and ergonomics and Canon lenses, with an A7SII video spec+quality and a D810 still quality. 
All of this without the mirror, with an EVF and all sony video functions. 
AM I the only one to wish for this? All of this tech is existing in cameras today, so it is not the moon to ask... But I have the feeling it won't come anytime soon.