Adobe Premiere Pro CC Now Supports H.265 NX1 Files

[mercer]

I actually thought it just tells player how it should be display. Good to know it actually changes the way it records, so you basically loose information when you set 16-235?

It is my understanding that you do not lose information, it's just way the information is delegated, or flagged.

http://www.eoshd.com/comments/topic/9218-nx1-16-235-vs-0-255/

 

[Marco Tecno]

totally unclear to me. Two big possibilities:

1) different encoding: hence less discrete steps for 16-235, hence less information available (though in the same max-min range, so same dr, but less intermediate "shades")

2) same encoding, different decoding: hence should be very easy to pass from one to another, w/o altering the blacks/highlight, but just changing some "flag"

[hmcindie]

There's a bug in the new Premiere that screws up DNxHD files inside a quicktime container. DNxHD files flagged as 709 will now have crushed blacks / highlights. Worked great in the previous version. What if a client sends you a DNxHD .mov file, would you realize that it's now fucked up?

My god Adobe!

[Marco Tecno]

Esporting in H.265 is slow even on my quite powerful machine (4.4Ghz 5820K + AMD Fiji GPU). I noticed that the use of GPU is quite low while exporting, even if I selected to use it. Is there a way to heavily use it?

[Pavel Mašek]

Esporting in H.265 is slow even on my quite powerful machine (4.4Ghz 5820K + AMD Fiji GPU). I noticed that the use of GPU is quite low while exporting, even if I selected to use it. Is there a way to heavily use it?

Yes, because I think there is no GPU on the market who has support of h265 encoding. New Nvidia cards only support decoding of h265...

So it works fine for playback but there is no difference when you export video to h265 when using these new Nvidia cards (so support of h265 is not full, only partial)

----

UPDATE - it seems that (ironically) cheaper (but newer) GTX 950 and 960 support decoding and encoding to h265 as they have newer chip GM206 (despite GTX970 which has GM204)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GeForce_900_series

http://www.techspot.com/review/1049-nvidia-geforce-gtx-950/

 

[joema]

Esporting in H.265 is slow even on my quite powerful machine (4.4Ghz 5820K + AMD Fiji GPU). I noticed that the use of GPU is quite low while exporting, even if I selected to use it. Is there a way to heavily use it?

At first I thought (as Pavel said), that only H265 decode hardware (not encode) is on new high-end video cards from AMD and nVidia. E.g, the AMD Fury.

However this thread indicates nVidia at least has both encode and decode support for H265, but the only software I've seen is the experimental command-line tool mentioned here: http://forum.videohelp.com/threads/370223-NVEncC-by-rigaya-NVIDIA-GPU-encoding

Note this "GPU" acceleration of H265 is not really the GPU but a logically separate ASIC that is integrated into the same assembly. A traditional GPU cannot effectively accelerate either encode or decode of long-GOP formats like H264, MPEG-4 or H265.  See discussion here: http://www.eoshd.com/comments/topic/18574-a-story-about-4k-xavc-s-premiere-and-transcoding/?do=findComment&comment=123689

Use of these features is not automatic -- the software must use specific APIs which are unique to either the AMD or nVidia video card. AMD's is called VCE and nVidia's is called NVENC.

Skylake CPUs have enhanced Quick Sync which does support both encode and decode of H265. However I don't think any software takes advantage of this yet. FCP X uses Quick Sync for both encode and decode of H264, and it makes a huge performance difference. It also avoids the requirement to have a specific video card. I hope they add similar Quick Sync support for H265 soon.

Some versions of Handbrake on some platforms can use Quick Sync for H264 but not yet H265.

[Marco Tecno]

And what about opencl encoder? Like x265?

[mercer]

Why would you want to export to h.265?

[Marco Tecno]

Smaller file size, especially for 4k, or better quality at the same size, playable by any - decent - pc.

For me h.265 is the new standard.

[Sekhar]

Smaller file size, especially for 4k, or better quality at the same size, playable by any - decent - pc.

For me h.265 is the new standard.

You're right of course, but the question is (and I think this is what Mercer meant as well): where will you actually use/play the H.265 footage today? I guess if you're short on space you could use it to play back on computers that have the codec, but most other players/sites won't play it yet, so it's going to be really limited in its use. It's perfect for recording devices like cameras (that are short on space), but not outside...yet.

[mercer]

Smaller file size, especially for 4k, or better quality at the same size, playable by any - decent - pc.

For me h.265 is the new standard.

Yes, Sekhar, exactly what I was thinking. I guess I understand having a master in h.265 ( I would rather have a prores master) but for web delivery QuickTime is king, so h.264 mov is your best bet. IMO. 

[joema]

And what about opencl encoder? Like x265?

The lead developer of x264 reviewed the efforts to GPU-accelerated H264 encoding, saying: "...countless people have failed over the years. nVidia engineers, Intel engineers...have all failed" His technical seminar reviews the problems and challenges: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uOOOTqqI18A 

The X264 team only used GPU acceleration on one component of X264 called Lookahead, which comprises only about 10-25% of the total H264 runtime. This was the only part which could be feasibly accelerated, and the benefits were limited (though useful in some cases). It was not a huge improvement on the scale typically associated with hardware acceleration, such as the 4x or 5x improvement in encode/decode performance from Quick Sync.

The inability of GPUs to accelerate long-GOP encode/decode is why nVidia and AMD have added extra non-GPU circuitry to their recent high-end video cards. This extra functionality is bundled with the GPU but architecturally has little relationship.

The situation with H265 and x265 is similar. It is a long-GOP codec but much more compute-intensive than H264. There is even greater need for hardware acceleration but for the same reasons as H264 a regular GPU cannot provide this. It takes specialized algorithm-specific hardware which means Quick Sync, or the nVidia/AMD hardware accessed by their NVENC and VCE APIs.

[Mat Mayer]

At least one digital signage company makes devices that play H.265 and not H.264 (BrightSign). We have had clients asking why their H.264 videos wont work and one expected us to provide a H.265 as he said it is the new standard (I disagreed).

We tried to encode a 20 minute clip in Premiere Pro to H.265 at 25 bitrate and it said it would take 25-30 hours. This is on a quality PC so I assume we need to upgrade graphics cards for when H.265 really does become the standard.

[Marco Tecno]

It's incredible how the nx1 can encode in real time 4k@30fps, after rescaling from 6.5k...and an ultra powerful pc can't!

It would be cool to be able to use the nx1 as a 'encoding/rendering' device connected with usb 3 :-D 

[Pavel Mašek]

Smaller file size, especially for 4k, or better quality at the same size, playable by any - decent - pc.

For me h.265 is the new standard.

I am not sure about that - I have rendered 4k video from NX1 and compared x264/30mbits and h265/25mbits and quality was almost the same (I think x264 was better). 10mbit h265 looked much worse. However I would wait on x265 as I do not like built-in Premiere codes. Finally I will choose x264 as rendering is far more faster... 

You're right of course, but the question is (and I think this is what Mercer meant as well): where will you actually use/play the H.265 footage today? 

I have 1 year old 4k player bought from ebay and it plays 25mbits H265 without any issue (but is not able to play native video from NX1)...

http://www.amazon.com/Measy-B4S-Android-Mali-T764-Streaming/dp/B00MQHOZLK

 

 

[kidzrevil]

Praying for h.265 on vimeo so we can finally preserve film grain without the mushy compression .

 

[Hanriverprod]

I'm about to get a graphics card for h.265 editing in premiere but it seems like premiere doesn't take advantage of gtx 960 h.265 decoder? Is this right? Should I just get the gtx 970 then (with skylake)? I'm also thinking about a 1440 monitor. Anybody know if this will play smoothly with 32g of memory?

[Mat Mayer]

By the way we have been testing a 20 minute H.265 video. It was 3.5GB in H.264, now it is 1.2GB and seems to be the same quality. It was exported from PP at 8 bitrate. Hundreds of people have had it and no complaints yet. Seems nearly all big name new UHD SMART TVs can handle it as MP4. Less likely with cheap brands like Vizio. Maybe the experts were being conservative when then said it is only a third or half more efficient in size.

Will be gutted if the 960M doesnt work wth H.265 too. Not got around to trying it yet but was assuming it would be fine. We are re-doing all our 4K videos in H.265 and will switch soon. It is just a bit bigger in size than our 1080p, which were usually 1.1GB.

[kidzrevil]

9 hours ago, Mat Mayer said:

By the way we have been testing a 20 minute H.265 video. It was 3.5GB in H.264, now it is 1.2GB and seems to be the same quality. It was exported from PP at 8 bitrate. Hundreds of people have had it and no complaints yet. Seems nearly all big name new UHD SMART TVs can handle it as MP4. Less likely with cheap brands like Vizio. Maybe the experts were being conservative when then said it is only a third or half more efficient in size.

Will be gutted if the 960M doesnt work wth H.265 too. Not got around to trying it yet but was assuming it would be fine. We are re-doing all our 4K videos in H.265 and will switch soon. It is just a bit bigger in size than our 1080p, which were usually 1.1GB.

Is h.265 compatible with vimeo or youtube ?

12 hours ago, Zach Goodwin said:

Audience: What's film grain?

What the hell ?! Lmao

[TheRenaissanceMan]

14 hours ago, Hanriverprod said:

I'm about to get a graphics card for h.265 editing in premiere but it seems like premiere doesn't take advantage of gtx 960 h.265 decoder? Is this right? Should I just get the gtx 970 then (with skylake)? I'm also thinking about a 1440 monitor. Anybody know if this will play smoothly with 32g of memory?

I edit in Resolve, but I run it and my 1440p monitor (as well as a 1080p and 720p monitor, for a total of 3 screens) off a GTX 970 with no issues. My system has 32 gigs of RAM, but I didn't think that affected its ability to drive hi-res monitors.