Wide Angle Adapters?

[Caleb Genheimer]

Hi, all! 

I've recently been honing my anamorphic setup. I run a Kowa 16-H through a Konica Hexanon 40mm taking lens, and I focus it with a SLR Magic Rangefinder which has been a joy to use after years of using a double-focus setup. Of course, at 40mm, I'm not running full frame, rather APSC/S35 on my Samsung NX1. 

Long story short, it gives a clean image cropped to 2.4:1, and in my new favorite "Ultra-Panovision 70" mode of 2.76:1, it hard vignettes only slightly in the corners, depending on the shot.

Near as I can tell, I get between 22mm and 25mm equivalent horizontal FOV (compared to my Samsung OIS 16-50 zoom). That's pretty wide for a projection anamorphic setup, but I'm interested in pushing it further. 

The Redstan clamp I'm using on the Kowa is 72mm, and the Rangefinder rear thread is 77mm. I'm curious if anyone knows of a wide angle adapter that I could put I between the two to push my setup just a bit wider. Shopping around for these things has proved difficult, as the specs are often incomplete or even contradictory. There are countless cheap pieces out there, but I'm looking for a decent quality unit, especially in sharpness (a little distortion is fine and actually adds to the anamorphic character.)

If you've used a wide angle adapter with good results, I'd love to hear how you made it work.

[ken]

I got the widest FOV is from iPhone with Moondog Ana lens, 29/1.33=22.

[Caleb Genheimer]

I'm getting pretty near 22/s35 already. I'm looking at this, actually to put on front of the Rangefinder:

http://www.adorama.com/CILWA006X82.html?hotlink=t&svfor=5m&gclid=Cj0KEQiAkIWzBRDK1ayo-Yjt38wBEiQAi7NnP_kA8nV502UdpJIeqRmENb_H_u4tFuqvZ7P6JlouYC8aAh8z8P8HAQ

[redimp]

I'm getting pretty near 22/s35 already. I'm looking at this, actually to put on front of the Rangefinder:

http://www.adorama.com/CILWA006X82.html?hotlink=t&svfor=5m&gclid=Cj0KEQiAkIWzBRDK1ayo-Yjt38wBEiQAi7NnP_kA8nV502UdpJIeqRmENb_H_u4tFuqvZ7P6JlouYC8aAh8z8P8HAQ

If you try it I'd love to know your results, thinking about the same thing too. There's a wide/macro attachment from vivitar too, looks tempting but I am afraid the quality would be reduced quite a bit.

[Nikkor]

The best wideangle adapter I know of is the trump 35. http://www.richardgaleoptics.uk/dogschidtoptiks/trumpsystem/dog-schidt-optiks-trump38-attachment

You will have to ask richard if it's a good idea. The oliviascope 1.5 is about to released, maybe that's another option?

[redimp]

The best wideangle adapter I know of is the trump 35. http://www.richardgaleoptics.uk/dogschidtoptiks/trumpsystem/dog-schidt-optiks-trump38-attachment

You will have to ask richard if it's a good idea. The oliviascope 1.5 is about to released, maybe that's another option?

I think I saw Rich mentioned that since this adapter was designed for specific glass he cannot foresee results with other lenses. 

[richg101]

unfortunately the widest the dso wa attachments will permit is 35mm on aps-c.

 

Century make a number of multi element wide angle attachments.  their premium 'focus through' units are nearly usable and if things add up you might get lucky - they like wide taking lenses on smaller sensors, and hate long ones on bigger sensors.  if you can find a higher magnification unit (more than 0.7x) this will help.  generally the deeper the body of the WA attachment, the more elements, the better iq you;ll get

[Caleb Genheimer]

The Cavision is the same filter thread size as the Rangefinder, whereas the DSO WA is a much smaller rear that I'm sure would vignette. Great for use on the TRUMP system, but not for my purposes.

Cavision has WA adapters and WA Converters. They seem to be emphasizing the fact that these are NOT the same thing, but I can't for the life of me understand the difference. One "only works with your camera in macro mode" whatever the crap that means. My fear is that they mess up infinity focus or something... Or worse, that they vignette pretty hard core, and "macro mode" = zooming in.

[richg101]

As a general rule, the bigger the rear element of a WA adaptor, the poorer the IQ will be on bigger sensors.  A WA adaptor will be typically designed for a specific fov and a specific light transmission requirement.   If it does well on wide lenses it normally wont do well on tele.

a smaller rear element on the WA attachment wont always result in hard vignette,  It'll simply reduce the light transmission.  hard vignette is almost never associated with the diameter of the rear element but more the field of view the attachment is designed to cover.  

 

the best comparison is the Isco 30, Isco 36 and Isco 54.  

the 30(pre 36) and 36 have no difference in fov capability.  but on Full frame the 36 will transmit 50/f1.4 and the 30 will only go to 50/f2.  the pre36 is moderately better IQ than the 36. 

 

54 doesn't provide much of a increase in field of view either, despite being way larger.  However a 54mm rear permits transmission of a lot more light - at the expense of even worse IQ. - the 54 has worse resolution and colour correction than the pre36 and 36 so fringes more, but in non contrasty environments the advantage of being able to transmit over twice the light that the 36 can, it has it's purposes.

 

Zoom through adaptors are Afocal meaning when attached to a lens set to infinity the focus remains at infinity.  Non zoom through usually have an effect on the focus distance meaning you can only use for closer shots.  This makes sense since typically a WA adaptor would be used in confined spaces.  IQ is also usually worse.   

 

 

[Caleb Genheimer]

Interesting. So for my purposes, I need a focus-through/afocal WA adapter. For everything closer up, the 40mm with anamorphic is wide enough. My main hope is to get that extra 30-40% wide for shots at infinity, mostly for establishing shots outdoors or in large interiors. 

I have to admit, I was inspired by a few shots from Hateful8 promo footage. Those anamorphics are not an extreme squeeze, but still, they get a wide shot that feels both expansive and intimate all at once (this above all is what draws me to anamorphic in general.) 

Im getting about 24-28mm non-anamorphic equivalent with my current setup, which is just on the verge of a true wide shot. I'm going to email Cavision for some more details, perhaps they can help me make an informed purchase or at least steer me clear of any expensive mistakes.

[redimp]

I'm going to email Cavision for some more details, perhaps they can help me make an informed purchase or at least steer me clear of any expensive mistakes.

Please let us know what they reply.

[bzpop]

The best wideangle adapter I know of is the trump 35.

The best WA adapter is Zunow

[Nikkor]

The best WA adapter is Zunow

I need one for a 50mm 1.2 that works wideopem, which one should I get?

[richg101]

If it's a 50mm on a 2/3" sensor those zunows will be great!  

[bzpop]

Better then Cavision, or Trump anyways

And you have to be completely retarded to shoot 50mm on 2/3" with WA adapter on

[richg101]

Better then Cavision, or Trump anyways

And you have to be completely retarded to shoot 50mm on 2/3" with WA adapter on

please share some examples of those small sensor wide angle lenses providing adequate iq on large sensors and I'll eat my head.  you recommend a brand who manufacture attachments for consumer camcorders.  they are not capable of working on large sensors.  Period.  It sounds to me like you googled 'best wide angle attachments' and posted the first brand you found.    http://www.zunow.tv/     

[Caleb Genheimer]

What brand would you suggest? The Cavision look pretty hefty, which in my mind indicates there's some decent glass going on there, but I don't really know.

[richg101]

tbh for anything bigger than 4k mode on gh4 and slow lenses there are slim pickings.  Everything available is for small chip use.    Hence why I had to go through all the effort of manufacturing the ff38 and trump38 attachments.  I've been looking at the ultra wide attachment recently released by sony for the 28mm/2 fe lens.  this might be an option for those using anamorphics with small front elements.  however it looks as if the electronic connections force the 28mm main les down to f2.8 in order to stop users trying to go as wide as f2 and getting poor results.  The FF38 and TRUMP38's are the only wide angle attachments that really deliver good performance wide open at f2 (or even f1.4), but the use of the ff38 is limited to 50mm on full frame or equivalent.    

[Caleb Genheimer]

Well I'm at 40mm on APSC, so right in that "50mm FF" FOV range. Would I be able to squeeze the ff38 in between the Ramgefinder and Kowa?

[richg101]

irritatingly not:(  since even if you crop your 3.55:1 unsqueezed image to 2.66:1 you'll be looking at an effective 26mm focal length from the front of the kowa.  or a effective 35-40mm focal length in full frame terms.  the vignette caused by the ff38 will counteract any fov widening the wide angle attachment will provide.

 

it's worth considering that you;ve already got a pretty damn wide setup if you go to 2.75:1.  if you need any wider it might be worth sourcing a nice wide prime like a flektogon 20mm or even a pentax 15mm/3.5 and cropping.  assuming you went wider than what you already have in anamorphic the dof will becomes so deep you'll loose a lot of the anamorphic aesthetic anyway.  a nice old ultrawide, or even a fish eye 16mm will crop to 2.35-2.75:1 and due to barrel distortion can often look a lot like a wide anamorphic anyway.  - lots of glass surfaces, distortion, flaring etc.