EOSHD video quality charts - 2015/2016

[Oliver Daniel]

 

Proof in the pudding that "specs" don't mean much. We've probably all seen it.. but this was shot on a GH3. 

[Lintelfilm]

An old favourite, also GH3:

[Oliver Daniel]

I made a mistake and bought the RX10 II because I was impressed by the "specs". 

I had the camera for 2 months and hated it. 

Only recently I played with the C300 again. Specs are "bad", but the image and usability is fantastic. Love the C300. 

[kidzrevil]

 

Proof in the pudding that "specs" don't mean much. We've probably all seen it.. but this was shot on a GH3. 

amen ! Once again im waiting for someone to humble me with their impressive canon xc10 footage. This GH3 footage you posted still goes harder than a lot of work out there....its damn near a benchmark in editing. I was always impressed by the GH line even though people dismissed it as a "small sensor that couldn't". When it comes to cameras show me the money(shots) then we can decide which new body deserves to be in our shopping cart :-)

 

hope the "camera a,b,c looks like video" people are paying attention to what can be achieved in the hands of a skilled shooter.

[eris]

I find it interesting that the NX1 is heavily featured here, but in other news Samsung has shut down their mirror less camera production.  

Really, really waiting for the Ursa Minor, I mean Ursa Mini 4.6k.  Either renting it or purchasing may be the biggest news of 2016.

[kidzrevil]

I find it interesting that the NX1 is heavily featured here, but in other news Samsung has shut down their mirror less camera production.  

Really, really waiting for the Ursa Minor, I mean Ursa Mini 4.6k.  Either renting it or purchasing may be the biggest news of 2016.

its a great camera, slept on but the NX1 is great nonetheless. People are starting to take notice. Personally I gravitated towards it because I find the rangefinder styled bodies are uncomfortable handheld

im interested in seeing stuff from the blackmagic as well. Great company & great products. Praying they decide to jump into the dslr market or give us a dslr styled video centric canon 1dc killer !

[Lintelfilm]

I made a mistake and bought the RX10 II because I was impressed by the "specs".  

I had the camera for 2 months and hated it. 

Only recently I played with the C300 again. Specs are "bad", but the image and usability is fantastic. Love the C300. 

As Ebrahim said the C100 MkII is a great camera too. Superior to the C300 really. It's significantly better in low light, offers 50p and the colour science is improved noticibly. Of course the C300 has a slightly stronger codec but paired with a Video Assist or Ninja Star the C100II is smaller, cheaper and outguns it. It's often sold with a free ninja Star too. Expensive for what it is on paper but it is a canon so that's a given really.

[animan]

They're nice shots and I don't want this to sound mean but to me your NX1 shots just look low contrast - low dynamic range with the shadows lifted until they aren't true black (no detail, just grey, and no "punch"). Furthermore the colour looks 8-bit with a generic "film" LUT applied, and the in-focus details look overly sharp. Colour depth, dynamic range and strong codec are not what these images say to me. The XC10 has the latter 3 in abundance. It's a question of taste I agree, but to say the XC10 "sucks" in comparison to the NX1 is to dismiss dynamic range, colour depth, motion cadence, image integrity/robustness, camera use-ability, rolling shutter performance, and the huge benefit of using a camera that "just works."

 

 I grade with scopes there is true detail in the black and my lenses were stopped down to f8 hence the sharpness. Also it was graded with LUTS. Impulz and delut's but I guess if the source was 8bit the colors will look 8 bit like the many other 8bit cameras like the a7 line. Plus even with a 10 bit camera you can only see those variation in colors on a 10 bit monitor. Everything is output to 8 bit color even from an 8bit source. Totally forgot to mention downscaling to 1080 from 4k gets you 444 color at 10 bit but lol ok copy. And I didn't say the xc10 sucks by comparison, I said it sucks in general. Specs wise it's very underpowered. They could have at least have allowed us interchangeable lenses but whatever. Would love to see your xc10 footage cuz the footage I've seen hasn't selled me on the camera at all. 

the shots do seem to have some big lumps of pure black raised to pure dark grey

[kidzrevil]

 

the shots do seem to have some big lumps of pure black raised to pure dark grey

view it on a vectorscope. There is detail there.

[fuzzynormal]

Leonardo Dalessandri's work is just a good example of craft.  I know it wouldn't matter what camera you put in my hand, he'd still be able to make a better travel video with a GH3 than I would with an Alexa.  

So, I use that sort of stuff as my personal benchmark.  If I can increase my skill level to exceed the IQ of what he can do, then I'll consider getting a better piece of gear.  'Til then, I'll roll with simple consumer gear too for my own projects.  Hey, if it's good enough for him, right?

I've been lucky enough to travel around the world on assignment over the past decade.  I can watch that video and reflect that my own library has about 80% of the same type of footage.  Is it shot as well?  No.  Is it edited as well?  Oh, god no.

That's my perspective.  Gotta learn technique and craft; get solid there, I'm still lacking.  I ask myself, "You got a paint brush?"  "Yes.  Well, then paint."  Worry about the bristles only when your skill demands it.  I'm not gonna gripe about refinements that I can't even begin to take real advantage of.

...So hard to do when all I want is to acquire and play with a A7s!

More on point to Andrews charting of cameras, ergonomics, etc, I gotta say, the EM5II, after some getting used to, now really agrees with me for some reason.  I just like shooting with it, taking it out of the bag and getting footage.  

Like many machines, some just jibe, others don't.  Don't know how to explain it.  It's like a car or a motorcycle...

[Guest Ebrahim Saadawi]

Me thumbing up my XC10 doesn't mean in anyway I am thumbing down the NX1. I am up-thumbing the XC10 because nobody else does, and I find that's simply wrong information that needs to be corrected by me. While the NX1, we all know it's a freaking awesome camera with few limitations, which are only the lowlight performance and lens mount/line-up. 

The NX1 is one of the best camera bodoes I've shot on, the size, weight, the speed, menus, buttons, AF, EVF, LCD, it'a a beautifully designed piece of camera, really up there with the 7D Mark II which I only mark as slightly higher in body design and speed and UI. It's an awesome body. 

The fact that it has a 30.3mp APS-C sensor with beautiful raw images, and that it downsamples that almost 7K image to 4K in realtime, all without any overheating issues, is absolutely cutting edge. Sony and Canon simply cannot do heat-less 4K, Samsung did it. 

The image, well it's one of the sharpest images out there, it's a very unique image. It's one of those cameras where you can identify its image among a thousand shots. It's the colour rendition and mostly how the blacks are rendered, they are so noiseless and solid in contrast, coupled with the high sharpness and punchy colours is a very very appealing image. Super modern. I can imagine the nx1 image to impress the hell out of ANY client in the video business, more than any other competeing camera. 

I would have got the nx1 vs the XC10 if it weren't for the lens mount. Autofocus and image stabilization are an absolute essential for me, and until active (reliable) EF and F-mount adapters come out I cannot buy the camera, for those who use primes? no problem! 

If it weren't for the lens mount I would have suggested the nx1 as the 2015 video winner, but the fact that it only works well with the niche manual lenses and the couple of expensive samsung glass, make it a bad choice for me to recommend to non-speciality people. 

Anyhow it's a super image if one likes that modern clean and sharp rendition and punchy colours. It is very appealing for most viewers. 

What I suggest to people as the video cameras of 2015? I am a man who gets a lot of questions on gear recommendations. I look at the person, if they are enthusiasts able to tinker with a m43s sensor, speed boosters and adapters and manual glass, I say the GH4 plus a SB is a one hell of a 4K S35 EF-mount camera. If I find the person someone who wants to shoot great looking images without lots of fuss, just something beautiful the works out the box with cheap auto glass, I immediately say a Nikon DSLR. D5500 or D750 for FF. If I find someone who can live with only manual glass and/or Samsung lenses, it's the nx1 all the way. Someone who wants to shoot a feature, and has ability to handle raw, and is aiming for the best image quality ever in the price for theatrical projections, I say the 5D MKIII. If their budget stretches to higher than 3000$ more options open up. It'a a complicated market with cameras suited for everybody. 

and remember, image is a personal thing. I'ts lile the beauty of a woman, it cannot be agreed on. Some people will find the NX1/GH4 image hideous, some will find it absolutely stunning in purity, some will find the 1DC/XC10 soft and dull with too warm feel, others will find it the beat film-like image out there. 

For me, personally, one thing I really HATE its digital sharpening. It's something that gives the NX1 a wow effect but I really dislike it. The NX1 applies about as large as 40% premiere sharpening mask at zero setting, I can't figure out for the life of me why they wouldn't give us the ability to keep the unsharpened detail that's soft without emphasized edges. At least as a special mode. Canon C-Log I love for offering that as well as Nikon. GH4 has the same problem (which along with the small sensor made it videoy to me). 

Some tweaks would really make these cameras sing for both ends of the spectrum, who want a more filmic negative image feel and who want a modern feel. 

 

 

 

Give the NX1 a simple firmware update: 

-An industry-standard LOG gamma curve, to work with luts and give higher contrast, utilizing more of what's available in the raw stills output. H.265 8bit can handle it just like S.log and C.log. 

-With Zero digital sharpening at zero

-A 1:1 4K mode of the NX500 

-The raw sensor has a GREAT lowlight performance, so utilize your powerful hardware to apply clever NR and give it a cleaner image above 1600 ISO. The gap between the stills and video lowlight noise is uncannt, all cameras have it flipped, being better in compressed video than raw stills. Do something about that. 

-You're an innovative software company so give us a waveform monitor in the LCD and EVF, why not? ML can do it. Also spot meter, RGB histogram, B&W Lut while recording colour, contrasty Lut while recording Log, edge peaking rather than colour, all those minor software addition we know they can provide. 

-Either make new cheap lenses for this cheap camera like Canon does with its APS-C cameras, or contact companies to produce a fully functional NX-EF / NX-F adapters with high quality mechanics and low tolerance. 

-Announce a new lens to debunk the rumora on the product shut off or just announce the shut off, otherwise people are going to refrain from commiting into your system (like I did, no way I am buying samsung lenses I cant use on any other camera). 

However disabling sharpening like the 1DC would really boost this camera's natural filmic aesthetic rather than being confined with the super ultra ''sharp'' look. I'ts the first priority for me coupled with the mount solution. The 1DC is SOFT yet has the same resolution and detail as the NX1, with a sharpening filter it becomes identical to the NX1, so why can't they turn off their sharpening too as long as they're marketing this camera for cinema and not consumers? Very limited mentality of lets wow people. 

Not asking for RAW or 10bit. I know that requires special hardware, card slots, processors, etc. Just give us some image processing tweaks. If Canon can makesuch a beautiful Log profile that even works AMAZINGLY in 1080p 35mbps 4:2:0 8bit on the XC10/C100, then just copy it with a slight curve tweak. 

[kidzrevil]

I hope I didn't give the impression that in me denouncing the xc10 as a worthy camera I am in any shape or form using it to claim the NX1 is a more worthy piece of hardware. As an artist I understand image is subjective as much as others try to make image an objective thing based on a standard they've been taught at film school or on an online forum. I appreciate the suggestions made to improve the NX1's image, it would be better if we can get those suggestions to Samsung as it is useless to wish for features currently not available to us . Anyway all I am saying is specs wise the xc10 is lackluster, lack of interchangeable lens mount makes it less appealing to ME & possibly a lot of other people. 

Long story short I just want someone to post something be it a still or a video they've shot with the xc10 or some footage they've stumbled upon. SHOW why the image of the camera is worth making it to any list cause we can go back and forth about specs and possibilities and what if scenarios. Show me the money.

[big phill]

It's been awhile since I posted here, but I am in the market (in a month or so) for a new camera....and I am very intrigued by the NX1......Ilove what I am seeing in terms of video, and I also love the stills. I am hearing that samsung is about to abandon their camera lines....but I Still feel like this camera is a monster

 

[Geoff CB]

It's been awhile since I posted here, but I am in the market (in a month or so) for a new camera....and I am very intrigued by the NX1......Ilove what I am seeing in terms of video, and I also love the stills. I am hearing that samsung is about to abandon their camera lines....but I Still feel like this camera is a monster

 

Bang for buck the best image your can buy. Doesn't matter if Samsung goes out of the camera business, the NX1 will still be a great piece of kit.

[IronFilm]

 

The fact that it has a 30.3mp APS-C sensor with beautiful raw images, and that it downsamples that almost 7K image to 4K in realtime, all without any overheating issues, is absolutely cutting edge. Sony and Canon simply cannot do heat-less 4K, Samsung did it. 

Wrong, Sony does it with their RX10 mk2. Full sensor read out (20.2MP) that is down sampled to 4K

[Guest Ebrahim Saadawi]

No it's a 1" 2.7x crop sensor. Many small sensor cameras with 4K without heating issues, downsamples and not. Large sensor of APS-C and higher are a completely differe t beast to get a 4K recording from in a small non-camcorder body due to over heating 

Sont went with the ''do it anywqt'' approach and gave cameras that overheat in 4K. 

Canon exective publicly stated the hinderance limiting them from incorporating 4K in their DSLRs is heat management, so they took the approach of ''give it when its perfectly ready. 

To emphasize how hard it is, with a 1.3x 1:1 readout, Canon couldn't even do it in the enormous 1DX body, and installed an entirely custom made heatsink for 4K to run reliably. 

The NX1 is the only company that was able to produce 4K with a large chip with zero heating issues. None. It's probably to do with their sophisticated processors and cutting edge BSI sensors and the futuristic H.265 codec. 

It a truth that Sony couldn't do 4K in the a7s due to heat, and Canon still are fighting to solve the issue to give us 4K 5D with absolute reliability. And they're not just fightinf to get a 1:1 4K readout, because the next 5D will have to be a minimum 25+ mp sensor, so they'll need to do as Samsung does, an elegant 7K to 4K internal downsample, but even a harder task because its a fullframe sensor. If they produced a 5D with only a 4K crop mode, or a 5K with 12mp, the world would be furious, especially being a Canon. 

Small s16/1" sensors are apparently not a problem, as seen in the GH4, RX10II, XC10, BMMS4K, etc 

[IronFilm]

No it's a 1" 2.7x crop sensor. Many small sensor cameras with 4K without heating issues, downsamples and not. Large sensor of APS-C and higher are a completely differe t beast to get a 4K recording from in a small non-camcorder body due to over heating 

You gave that example straight after praising the XC10.....  which is also a 1" sensor!!

And btw, NX1 is not 30 megapixels but 28 megapixels.

[kidzrevil]

No it's a 1" 2.7x crop sensor. Many small sensor cameras with 4K without heating issues, downsamples and not. Large sensor of APS-C and higher are a completely differe t beast to get a 4K recording from in a small non-camcorder body due to over heating 

Sont went with the ''do it anywqt'' approach and gave cameras that overheat in 4K. 

Canon exective publicly stated the hinderance limiting them from incorporating 4K in their DSLRs is heat management, so they took the approach of ''give it when its perfectly ready. 

To emphasize how hard it is, with a 1.3x 1:1 readout, Canon couldn't even do it in the enormous 1DX body, and installed an entirely custom made heatsink for 4K to run reliably. 

The NX1 is the only company that was able to produce 4K with a large chip with zero heating issues. None. It's probably to do with their sophisticated processors and cutting edge BSI sensors and the futuristic H.265 codec. 

It a truth that Sony couldn't do 4K in the a7s due to heat, and Canon still are fighting to solve the issue to give us 4K 5D with absolute reliability. And they're not just fightinf to get a 1:1 4K readout, because the next 5D will have to be a minimum 25+ mp sensor, so they'll need to do as Samsung does, an elegant 7K to 4K internal downsample, but even a harder task because its a fullframe sensor. If they produced a 5D with only a 4K crop mode, or a 5K with 12mp, the world would be furious, especially being a Canon. 

Small s16/1" sensors are apparently not a problem, as seen in the GH4, RX10II, XC10, BMMS4K, etc 

the heat issue is a real burden for a lot of companies and that really sucks. Kinda shows that 4k wont be widely adopted anytime soon  hopefully sensor tech takes a huge leap and the heat issue no longer becomes a problem

[Guest Ebrahim Saadawi]

You gave that example straight after praising the XC10.....  which is also a 1" sensor!!
And btw, NX1 is not 30 megapixels but 28 megapixels.

It's a praise to both cameras they do 1" 4K recording without overheating. However th XC10 takes an even higher praise for doing it infinitely without a limit. I really don't get the point. The nx1 sensor has a 30.3mp sensor, photos taken are 28mp. Huge image in a s35 chip. 

Aside from that, the RX10II makes hideous 4K Image in S-LOG2 with TONS of noise. A7s Mark one colours. The XC10 just has a way better image, thouh with a few missing specs like slo mo bursts. 

Both gret cameras or a pik-up-and-shoot jobs. But I chose he xc10 for the image and the clever body. Feels SO natural. I wish they improve upon that form factor of a mini C100. 

[Lintelfilm]

It's a praise to both cameras they do 1" 4K recording without overheating. However th XC10 takes an even higher praise for doing it infinitely without a limit. I really don't get the point. The nx1 sensor has a 30.3mp sensor, photos taken are 28mp. Huge image in a s35 chip. 

Aside from that, the RX10II makes hideous 4K Image in S-LOG2 with TONS of noise. A7s Mark one colours. The XC10 just has a way better image, thouh with a few missing specs like slo mo bursts. 

Both gret cameras or a pik-up-and-shoot jobs. But I chose he xc10 for the image and the clever body. Feels SO natural. I wish they improve upon that form factor of a mini C100. 

My top XC10 Mark II feature requests:

1. EVF

2. Constant f2.8 lens (Perhaps by not making it as long as the current one - but could they make up for that by implementing a 1080p digital zoom similar to the FS5?)

3. 10bit out!

4. More pro feeling body

5. More function buttons

6. Improved manual focus ring