Sony FS5 - why I bought one

[Andrew Reid]

I find Sony has a slight blue/magenta cast on skintones... When you warm those skintones to make them more natural, you also warm areas of the scene that then could look unnatural.

Maybe this is why they now have 3 colour temperatures of S-Gamut on the FS5.

Anyone had experience with FS7 raw? Issues?

[BenEricson]

This is a pretty good example of what happens in the real world. 6 years later...

[Andrew Reid]

7D doesn't do 240fps though does it?

[BenEricson]

7D doesn't do 240fps though does it?

Your bookshelf doesn't look any different in 240 

I want to love Sony. I have been shooting 5D3 raw for a personal project, FS700/7Q for work. High frame rates are great, wish the FS700 could shoot 24/30 like the 5D3 Raw does.

[jcs]

You're right, the file names give it away!

They look close though don't they, considering 500Mbit 4:2:2 on the 1D C and just 100Mbit 4:2:0 on the FS5.

Grading is a powerful tool!

The first image is FS5, second is 1DC when viewing the filenames; matches guesses based on color and  DOF. Bitrate and color sampling have nothing to do with color (will affect sharpness and macroblocking. 422 vs. 420 is very hard to see difference unless pixel peeping or keying (only some cases- the upsampling from 420 /422to 444 in NLEs results in slightly softer chroma- almost impossible to see)).

Again, I'm impressed with the improved color quality of the A7S II and even more the A7R II. Not clear regarding the FS5 yet- would need to see side-by-side with Canon/ARRI for live skintones, especially indoor lighting (LEDs, tungsten (easier for all cameras- continuous spectrum light source), fluorescent (harder for all cameras- tends to be spikey spectrum, especially green), and mixed lighting (the common case for location shooting- hardest to deal with)).

BTW- Canon is offering $500-1000 rebates until March 31st: http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?343200-New-Canon-Instant-Rebates-on-the-C100-and-C100mkII

$1500 off on this bad boy: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1043629-REG/canon_9785b001_cn7x17_kas_s_cine_servo.html. Fixed T2.95 and variable servo zoom- great lens for S35 cameras and location/fast shooting.

[Asmundma]

I more intrested if it make sense to ugrade from A7sii then the old 1Dc discussion. 

Is the picture any better?

Obviously the ND filter is nice, but we lose the IBIS and would get back the micro shake when hand held.

(before the Raw comes along)

 

[Andrew Reid]

I more intrested if it make sense to ugrade from A7sii then the old 1Dc discussion. 

Is the picture any better?

Obviously the ND filter is nice, but we lose the IBIS and would get back the micro shake when hand held.

(before the Raw comes along)

So far I've only had the camera for a few days so hard to really give a definitive answer.

So far I'm not seeing any big image quality advantage from the FS5 over the A7S II, aside from rolling shutter obviously. And that is pretty important.

The 4K looks a bit sharper maybe.

I wouldn't upgrade on image quality alone. I'd upgrade for the form factor above all and the following:

• Built in variable ND (great feature!)
• Raw upgrade coming
• Much longer battery run times and much quicker charging
• Much more dramatic slow-mo and full super 35mm sensor scan in 240fps
• Better monitoring and audio
• Better connections (SDI and XLR)
• Much less rolling shutter in 4K
• Better video ergonomics, nice top handle, no need to rig out with cage, etc.
• Better balanced
• Not as fiddly
• The built in EVF is articulated

And over the C100 II I would have to say off the top of my head:

• Speed Booster compatible for full frame look
• Internal 4K recording
• High frame rates / cache record
• Variable ND
• PL mount adapter compatibile (can't wait to use my Cookes on it)

[AaronChicago]

What's the native ISO on the FS5?

[VanDaven]

What's the native ISO on the FS5?

It's ISO 3200 in SLog, All other Gammas have different base ISO values (between 650 and 1000).

[AaronChicago]

It's ISO 3200 in SLog, All other Gammas have different base ISO values (between 650 and 1000).

Ahh. Yeah that makes the Variable ND a necessity. I don't mind the C100's ND wheel since native ISO is 850. Between flexible ISO's and ND's it usually works out perfect.

[blondini]

Your bookshelf doesn't look any different in 240 

I want to love Sony. I have been shooting 5D3 raw for a personal project, FS700/7Q for work. High frame rates are great, wish the FS700 could shoot 24/30 like the 5D3 Raw does.

I also want to like this new generation of Sony cameras. Ever since magic lantern blew the lid off canon DSLRs by enabling RAW, I've been expecting an HD/2K camera to come along that offers similar quality in proper shape at a decent price. Instead its all 4K smoke and mirrors, delivered with flaky, pain in the ass codecs.

[Andrew Reid]

I also want to like this new generation of Sony cameras. Ever since magic lantern blew the lid off canon DSLRs by enabling RAW, I've been expecting an HD/2K camera to come along that offers similar quality in proper shape at a decent price. Instead its all 4K smoke and mirrors, delivered with flaky, pain in the ass codecs.

Funny. I agree with you!!

[Brett Munoz]

I shoot lots of weddings and also music videos/shorts.  I really like the Canon C100MKII look but hate the lack of 4k and 120fps.  The c300mkii is awesome but out of my budget. I really like the FS5 but do notice it has a "slightly" more videoish look when compared to the c100mkii (I think cause it is so sharp).  Also, I might have a hard time matching colors with my 5diii and gh4.  Any feedback is greatly appreciated!  

[AaronChicago]

I shoot lots of weddings and also music videos/shorts.  I really like the Canon C100MKII look but hate the lack of 4k and 120fps.  The c300mkii is awesome but out of my budget. I really like the FS5 but do notice it has a "slightly" more videoish look when compared to the c100mkii (I think cause it is so sharp).  Also, I might have a hard time matching colors with my 5diii and gh4.  Any feedback is greatly appreciated!  

You're essentially getting a 4K image scaled to 1080 with the C100ii. So unless you're wanting to crop in more than 50% it's not really an issue. Now 120fps would be nice

[Brett Munoz]

You're essentially getting a 4K image scaled to 1080 with the C100ii. So unless you're wanting to crop in more than 50% it's not really an issue. Now 120fps would be nice

Funny, I spoke to a Canon rep and he stated that the C100MKII does NOT scale down which I found weird since I too read somewhere it does.

[AaronChicago]

Funny, I spoke to a Canon rep and he stated that the C100MKII does NOT scale down which I found weird since I too read somewhere it does.

Hmm. I know it's 8.3MP so I just assumed that was the deal.

[Brett Munoz]

Hmm. I know it's 8.3MP so I just assumed that was the deal.

regardless, still looks as detailed as a scaled down 4k image.  

[Andrew Reid]

Funny, I spoke to a Canon rep and he stated that the C100MKII does NOT scale down which I found weird since I too read somewhere it does.

What he means is that the sensor outputs all pixels (4K) for extra RGB data when producing the 1080p image on the processor.

[Brett Munoz]

What he means is that the sensor outputs all pixels (4K) for extra RGB data when producing the 1080p image on the processor.

That is what I thought I asked the guy at Canon, does the C100MKII scale down from a 4k image to produce a 1080 image.  His exact words were, "no, there is no 4k hardware at all inside the camera."  

Regardless, at $4600 with Ninja, do you think the C100mkII a good buy?  I really want to like the FS5 but something inside of me keeps telling me to go with Canon color.  Especially since my B cams are a GH4 and a 60d, 5diii.

[Policar]

That is what I thought I asked the guy at Canon, does the C100MKII scale down from a 4k image to produce a 1080 image.  His exact words were, "no, there is no 4k hardware at all inside the camera."  

Regardless, at $4600 with Ninja, do you think the C100mkII a good buy?  I really want to like the FS5 but something inside of me keeps telling me to go with Canon color.  Especially since my B cams are a GH4 and a 60d, 5diii.

He's right. Read the C300 white papers. I forget the details, but what it boils down to is that the 1920X1080 red pixels, 1920X1080 blue pixels, and one set of the two sets of 1920X1080 green pixels are added together as if they were stacked on top of each other (they're not, but close enough). The last set of green pixels is used for noise reduction or oversampling the first set of green pixels. Or something. 

So the 1080p image is derived from 3840X2160 pixels, and all the pixels are used to construct it, but there's never a UHD image anywhere in the pipeline because there's no debayering that takes place. There is UHD raw but it's processed directly to 1080p. This might be why the image is exceptionally sharp, like a Foveon image, but also why there's some aliasing in red and blue fabrics and some people feel the image is over-sharpened.

If your clients demand 4k, get a 4k camera. If they don't, don't get one. The best buy is whatever offers the best return on investment, whether that return is financial (as a pro) or in enjoyment (as a hobbyist). What makes the decision hard is when you're something in between.

What hobbyists admire most about a Red camera–the ability to construct and process an image with no internal noise reduction in high bitrate raw–is what makes it super obnoxious to pros and expensive for producers because of the added time to do that work... The question is: do you want to do the extra work because it's a hobby you enjoy or are you paying, out of your own time or someone else's, to do the extra work? If you're somewhere in between the two, what matters most to you? If I had a 4k tv I might be more inclined to buy a 4k camera, for instance, even if my clients didn't request it.

Notice all the Reds being used on low budget music videos? And all the Canons being used on high end corporate? Corporate pays a lot better than music videos. It's a lot less fun. I'm a very big fan of Canon and Arri, but that's just one opinion.