Canon 5D Mark II raw dynamic range versus Sony FS5

[tellure]

Andrew could you tell us what lenses you used for your 5DmkII vs. FS5 comparison?  

[hmcindie]

I think the FS700 looks pretty damn good if you tweak the color profiles a bit, and sure is a hell of a lot more reliable than the 5d3 raw, and a zillion times better for 1080p60/120/240.  Each camera has their own strengths and weaknesses.  But don't underestimate how good the FS700 looks in good light esp. with the Speedbooster + good glass, or with the Odyssey 7Q and raw.

Also hmcindie - if I were getting paid work guess which one I'd grab?  The one that can shoot ultra slow mo, 5 hours straight with a single battery, has built in XLR and ND filters, and is rock solid (no worries about memory cards too slow or random ML lockups)?  The FS700 every time.

Reliability and 95% of the IQ trumps questionable reliability, time wasted swapping batteries, screw on variable ND filters for each lens, having a EVF or loupe (and carrying batteries for the EVF), crappy audio to sync in post, huge turn around time converting, etc.   Let's say I shoot 1 wedding per week every week of the summer - both cameras will give stunning results for the client and which one will be easier to deal with?  The 5d3 in raw sure sucks ass in varying lighting conditions - god forbid you want to use autoISO in raw mode - enjoy the huge exposure shifts!

Well sure, I did not argue about the merits of the XLR-adapters and the value of 240fps (which we have used several times). I just took both files into After Effects, compared the exact same shot and came to the conclusion: RAW is sooo much better.

But of course you can always go even further with that analogy. Is the FS700 a usable camera? Yes, but it's wonky as hell and slow as a dingle dongle. I can grab shots with the 5d in mere seconds (and change the iso, aperture and wb very fast) that would take tens of seconds of fiddling with the FS700 plus - oh my lord - it's such a horrible boxy design and the buttons are horrid.

In varying lighting conditions the 5d3 does not suck ass, it's white balance is years ahead of the FS700. Don't use autoISO, use everything on manual. AutoISO etc are for phones. Though doesn't ML enable the use of smooth iso? Have never used it.

For example when you say reliability trumps 95% of IQ I agree. That's why I use the 5d even in h264 while I had the A7s or the FS700. It's actually a more reliable camera than either of the Sonys. My A7s got scratches on the LCD in a month and the FS700 is time waster with a fugly image except for the ND- filters. Both need to use emount converters to work with Canon lenses and both have problems with them. 5D3 will give better results for weddings in H264 than the FS700. And that "EVF" on the FS700? That's not an EVF, that's an almost useless loupe.

[kgv5]

When you talk about bodys, buttons etc - nobody mention that 5d2/5d3 are weather sealed, with good L lens one can still shot raw video when it starts raining without any preparation. This is not a small thing when one is on a trip in remote terrain.

[Shield3]

Well sure, I did not argue about the merits of the XLR-adapters and the value of 240fps (which we have used several times). I just took both files into After Effects, compared the exact same shot and came to the conclusion: RAW is sooo much better.

Have you tried pushing around the FS700 in...wait for it...raw?  Raw is pretty slick from any camera.

But of course you can always go even further with that analogy. Is the FS700 a usable camera? Yes, but it's wonky as hell and slow as a dingle dongle.

It is slow when you're not used to it, but it does get better.  Is it more fiddly, and do I hate the button placement?  Yes.  But you do get used to it.

I can grab shots with the 5d in mere seconds (and change the iso, aperture and wb very fast) that would take tens of seconds of fiddling with the FS700 plus - oh my lord - it's such a horrible boxy design and the buttons are horrid.

Not if you plan ahead - I hit record and don't need any "card warm up time" to make sure the card is ready to write.  Again, we're talking about PAID work here.  Again, I shot 5d3 raw for 1.5 years - it's still a "hack" and locked up periodically.  Just enabling certain live view modes I could get it to consistently lock up.  If you are shooting something you can do over and over it's fine.  For one-time paid work I want some reliability and redundancy - hell I cannot even shoot to BOTH cards at once for raw - some people have to use both cards just to get 1080p24 in raw to have enough speed.  With the FS700, I can shoot to the SD slot and FMU128 simultaneously for an instant backup.

In varying lighting conditions the 5d3 does not suck ass, it's white balance is years ahead of the FS700. Don't use autoISO, use everything on manual. AutoISO etc are for phones. Though doesn't ML enable the use of smooth iso? Have never used it.

I am not talking about white balance per se, and I do agree the white balance is better (keep in mind who gives a shit about WB if you're shooting raw, remember?).  What I mean is if you actually are MOVING with the camera or have a scene with drastically (1+ stop) changes in light.  Have you ever shot a scene in the evening, panned around with a bright light source entering the frame, had a bride go from inside a church to outside?  If you are shooting a static scene that isn't going to change then sure.  Auto ISO is *not* for cell phones - I know what I want my F-stop to be and my shutter speed - it's very valuable to allow the camera to pick the correct ISO in many situations.  If you're only shooting your cat under a 60 watt bulb indoors then sure.  I have shot stuff where the sun enters the frame and the EV changes 3 stops easily if not more  - I need a camera that can handle that.  Raw in ML cannot smoothly, and yes, I fiddled for days with the "smooth ISO" setting.  Go try it and let me know what you've found out.  Hundreds of posts on the ML forums with people complaining about drastic exposure shifts with raw.

So let's compare what each one of us are doing on a shoot outdoors.  You have an EVF or a loupe on the LCD, you're fighting screwing your ND filters on each lens, making sure the external audio is working or the non-XLR mics are working, worrying that the ML software doesn't hard lock the body, constantly wondering how much CF card space you have left, and you can't punch in while recording to check focus again.  You're doing all that and haven't begun to think about framing and keeping your subject in focus with the thin DOF of a full frame camera that has no touch screen or will EVER have the ability to AF in video mode.  Meanwhile I have XLR audio, ND's at my fingertips, working auto-ISO, rock solid 5 hour batteries and dual memory cards to record to.  Oh yeah you can't shoot any ultra slow-mo either.  I cannot believe I'm even debating this for PAID work really...

For example when you say reliability trumps 95% of IQ I agree. That's why I use the 5d even in h264 while I had the A7s or the FS700. It's actually a more reliable camera than either of the Sonys.

 

Have you ever shot the FS700?  For any extended period?  I absolutely agree that the Canon in H264 mode is rock solid, but no more than the FS700.  Also FS700 crushes the 5d3's soft h264 footage and it's not even close.  I mean if we're back to the IQ discussion.

My A7s got scratches on the LCD in a month and the FS700 is time waster with a fugly image except for the ND- filters. Both need to use emount converters to work with Canon lenses and both have problems with them. 5D3 will give better results for weddings in H264 than the FS700. And that "EVF" on the FS700? That's not an EVF, that's an almost useless loupe.

Perhaps your vision needs checked - with that loupe I can clearly see to do focus pulls, the histogram, focus peaking, and PUNCH in while recording.  I can shoot in the mid -day sun without any issues  - you have to use a 3rd party EVF or loupe - I need none of that.  Your OVF doesn't help out too much once you hit record does it?  The a7s I will agree is flaky with the metabones and is a fragile little kitten, but the FS700 has been great for me.  We are going to have to agree to disagree about the IQ of the FS700.

You really this THIS footage is "fugly"?

I think the FS700 is still the most feature rich bang for the buck (used) cinema camera you can get right now especially with the Speedbooster and good glass.

When you talk about bodys, buttons etc - nobody mention that 5d2/5d3 are weather sealed, with good L lens one can still shot raw video when it starts raining without any preparation. This is not a small thing when one is on a trip in remote terrain.

This is true KGV5, but for $1.00 I can throw a bag over a FS700 and I'm good.  I don't shoot in the rain because I don't like to get wet either.

[BenEricson]

You really this THIS footage is "fugly"?I think the FS700 is still the most feature rich bang for the buck (used) cinema camera you can get right now especially with the Speedbooster and good glass.

Hands down the best deal out there. The huge 7Q is great for interviews etc... I would say it is also the cheapest, future proof camera available. It can do 120 RAW/4K...

I wouldn't say the piece above looks particularly nice. There are some pretty poor looking colors in spots. This is one of the better pieces I have seen with the FS700/7Q. Shoot RAW and learn how to color correct... You get much more than the FS5 for much less of a price.

 

 

 

[BrorSvensson]

anyone here shot on a canon 50d raw? how is it compared to the 5d's ?