Oliver Daniel Posted January 10, 2016 Share Posted January 10, 2016 I've been using the A7SII for about a month now on serious projects, so just looking to catch up with other users to see how they find the camera. I've always used the camera with the Sony CLM-FHD5 (which I got new for cheap). It's a pretty simple monitor with a lovely display. It's inclusion with the A7SII is something I'd never go without (or any other decent 5" monitor for that matter).I feel the camera does many things very well, however it's probably the hardest learning curve on any Sony camera I've used, more so than the F55! It's too early to decide if I like it, but I certainly enjoy using every lens I have on the E-mount. (e.g Helios 40-2 85mm + full frame = wow!). These are the challenges I'm working round on the camera: 1. Battery Life - The battery life is absolutely dire on the camera. If there is no power source to charge batteries, I need about 6-7 for the day. The battery grip adds unnecessary bulk for me, as I'm using an Edelkrone PocketRig2 to keep the camera stable during focusing. Looking for a USB power pack I can bolt on somewhere, when needed.2. Rolling Shutter - It's never ever bothered me much...but this really is a thing with the A7SII. Really bad above 50mm in 4k mode. I'd recommend not using a lens above 50mm if you plan on moving the camera often!3. White Balance - I've not done enough tests yet, but there's something weird going on with manual white balance. I don't know if this is because the "colour science" is a bit odd, but the camera does seem to struggle balancing this accurately. Other cameras in same conditions and Kelvin are fine. No solution yet, just more tests!4. Slog2 - The factory settings are crap, so I've been experimenting with Still, Movie and Pro with a bit of a boost in saturation, dialled down detail and fiddling with yellow and magenta. These colours are a bit of an "issue" with the colour palette. Seems biased. Don't use Slog3. 5. Cine Profiles - Cine4 is a decent alternative, but the superior dynamic range from Slog2 is hard to ignore. If you get Slog2 right, it looks miles better. Cine4 in S.Gamut/Cine is pretty good with a bit more tinkering, although I'm not satisfied with my tinkers yet. My general overall feeling is that the "off" colour science is definitely a thing. When having used a C300 recently, the difference is staggering (much better on C300). True, you can get there wit the A7SII but it's bloody hard. If you are filming something gloomy and weird then it's perfect! Beauty video? Forget it! How's everyone else finding things? Anything to share? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mojo43 Posted January 10, 2016 Share Posted January 10, 2016 I have been using it for over a month. I was previously shooting with the a7s so it wasn't too much of an issue. The biggest thing that bothers me on this camera is that the monitor dims when shooting in 4k. It's so hard to see to set WB and exposure. The batteries is an issue, but they are tiny so I just keep switching them up. Also turning off the wifi on it saves on power. I have been shooting in cine4 and I think the footage looks really good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronFilm Posted January 10, 2016 Share Posted January 10, 2016 1. Battery Life - The battery life is absolutely dire on the camera. If there is no power source to charge batteries, I need about 6-7 for the day. The battery grip adds unnecessary bulk for me, as I'm using an Edelkrone PocketRig2 to keep the camera stable during focusing. Looking for a USB power pack I can bolt on somewhere, when needed.A nifty device on eBay from orpheus_c, it uses the cage's handgrip as a large battery to power your Sony camera. Allowing for much longer run times than what you'd usually get from your FW-50 batteries alone. Curing one of the big complaints about this series of cameras, their poor battery length.http://www.ebay.com/itm/Kovacam-18650-battery-handgrip-DC-coupler-for-Kovacam-A7s-II-A7r-II-Cage-/121822159604 Oliver Daniel 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Andrew Reid Posted January 10, 2016 Administrators Share Posted January 10, 2016 3. White Balance - I've not done enough tests yet, but there's something weird going on with manual white balance. I don't know if this is because the "colour science" is a bit odd, but the camera does seem to struggle balancing this accurately. Other cameras in same conditions and Kelvin are fine. No solution yet, just more tests!This is probably to do with S Gamut and it's probably why the FS5 has 3 versions of each S Gamut for different colour temperatures (i.e. 3200k for indoors)With the A7 series in SLOG with S Gamut the purple reds (too cool) in sunlight might hint towards that being the issue.4. Slog2 - The factory settings are crap, so I've been experimenting with Still, Movie and Pro with a bit of a boost in saturation, dialled down detail and fiddling with yellow and magenta. These colours are a bit of an "issue" with the colour palette. Seems biased. Don't use Slog3.Doesn't that fix the manual white balance issues?5. Cine Profiles - Cine4 is a decent alternative, but the superior dynamic range from Slog2 is hard to ignore. If you get Slog2 right, it looks miles better. Cine4 in S.Gamut/Cine is pretty good with a bit more tinkering, although I'm not satisfied with my tinkers yet.I prefer SLOG 2 to the Cine profiles.My general overall feeling is that the "off" colour science is definitely a thing. When having used a C300 recently, the difference is staggering (much better on C300). True, you can get there wit the A7SII but it's bloody hard. If you are filming something gloomy and weird then it's perfect! Beauty video? Forget it! How's everyone else finding things? Anything to share? Yes steep learning curve in post for colour but you can get it to match the C300 or 1D C for sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oliver Daniel Posted January 10, 2016 Author Share Posted January 10, 2016 I have been using it for over a month. I was previously shooting with the a7s so it wasn't too much of an issue. The biggest thing that bothers me on this camera is that the monitor dims when shooting in 4k. It's so hard to see to set WB and exposure. The batteries is an issue, but they are tiny so I just keep switching them up. Also turning off the wifi on it saves on power. I have been shooting in cine4 and I think the footage looks really good.Cool. I recommend getting a 5" monitor as the Sony back screen isn't he best for critical work. I find that the ergonomics are fine with a monitor of this size attached. Any interesting settings for your Cine 4 profile? This is probably to do with S Gamut and it's probably why the FS5 has 3 versions of each S Gamut for different colour temperatures (i.e. 3200k for indoors)With the A7 series in SLOG with S Gamut the purple reds (too cool) in sunlight might hint towards that being the issue.Doesn't that fix the manual white balance issues?PP Off default settings seems to be ok. SLOG is a bit of a bugger for white balance, but I'm also finding this to be the case with the Cine profiles too. There are colour shifts between them, even slightly, it's enough in 8-bit to make your footage a bit wonky and your lights as though they have a filter on them. I'm starting to think that the A7SII sensor has indeed had a "kick in the balls" when ultra-sensitivity shows it's bright, pale, murky face. I don't know the science behind it, or if there is a relation/knock-on effect concerning colour and very sensitive sensors. Maybe I'm just being crap, and need to scratch my head more! Yes steep learning curve in post for colour but you can get it to match the C300 or 1D C for sure.It would be great to find a special formula to get the PP settings in the Sony close to Canon. It will always behave very differently, but worth a try eh? Next time I get my hands on a C300 I'll give it a go if I have time. I wish to get all this technical Sony stuff aside so I don't have to think about it much on a shoot. Damn you Sony and your IBIS, your 120fps, 4k log shooting cocktail of chaos!! ;-DP.s Dear Canon, please bring out a 5D C-series camera that actually has decent video features. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mojo43 Posted January 10, 2016 Share Posted January 10, 2016 I have been using this:http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?327893-A7s-S-log2-too-noisy-Then-underexpose-cine4My Go Cuba vid was all shot in this setting... Raafi Rivero, Dean, Oliver Daniel and 5 others 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dean Posted January 11, 2016 Share Posted January 11, 2016 I have been using it for over a month. I was previously shooting with the a7s so it wasn't too much of an issue. The biggest thing that bothers me on this camera is that the monitor dims when shooting in 4k. It's so hard to see to set WB and exposure. The batteries is an issue, but they are tiny so I just keep switching them up. Also turning off the wifi on it saves on power. I have been shooting in cine4 and I think the footage looks really good.Agree ... I'm not sure why this doesn't piss more people off. I actually sold my A7Rii and my RX100IV because of this. Just can't see what your doing when trying to film outdoors esp when bright. Even the EVF dims in 4k. 1080p doesn't dim ... at least not on the A7Rii. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jase Posted January 11, 2016 Share Posted January 11, 2016 I have been using this:http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?327893-A7s-S-log2-too-noisy-Then-underexpose-cine4My Go Cuba vid was all shot in this setting...This is just plain amazing. Very well done! Will give those settings definitely a try once i received my RX100 mojo43 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregormannschaft Posted January 11, 2016 Share Posted January 11, 2016 Have to say, I've loved the SLOG 3 footage I've got from the camera so far.Pro tip: Filmconvert isn't too friendly to the footage and is way more likely to produce banding than an Impulz Lut. I used FilmConvert on Sony FS7 Slog 3 footage and it had a ton of banding in the sky, with Impulz there was none. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mojo43 Posted January 11, 2016 Share Posted January 11, 2016 Have to say, I've loved the SLOG 3 footage I've got from the camera so far.Pro tip: Filmconvert isn't too friendly to the footage and is way more likely to produce banding than an Impulz Lut. I used FilmConvert on Sony FS7 Slog 3 footage and it had a ton of banding in the sky, with Impulz there was none.Good to know. I am going to start testing with slog3. Looking forward to seeing the results! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregormannschaft Posted January 11, 2016 Share Posted January 11, 2016 Good to know. I am going to start testing with slog3. Looking forward to seeing the results!I haven't had any problems with banding, but that could be down to having not seen a blue sky since purchase, and there's something about the SLOG 3 aesthetic that really appeals to me. Here's some screen grabs from some shots I grabbed in Wales over Christmas. There's some colour blocking going on in the left hand side of the sky, but you really don't notice it watching it back. jase, Liam and TheRenaissanceMan 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oliver Daniel Posted January 11, 2016 Author Share Posted January 11, 2016 I haven't had any problems with banding, but that could be down to having not seen a blue sky since purchase, and there's something about the SLOG 3 aesthetic that really appeals to me. Here's some screen grabs from some shots I grabbed in Wales over Christmas. There's some colour blocking going on in the left hand side of the sky, but you really don't notice it watching it back. Looks very nice! I might have an extra tinker with Slog3 as i much prefer it to Slog2 (on the FS7). When i get a well lit, bright scene I'll give it a go!For those having difficulty with the back LCd, get a 5" inch monitor to clip on the top. Much better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smon222 Posted January 11, 2016 Share Posted January 11, 2016 Is that s.gamut3.cine or another? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Kotlos Posted January 11, 2016 Share Posted January 11, 2016 I haven't had any problems with banding, but that could be down to having not seen a blue sky since purchase, and there's something about the SLOG 3 aesthetic that really appeals to me. Here's some screen grabs from some shots I grabbed in Wales over Christmas. There's some colour blocking going on in the left hand side of the sky, but you really don't notice it watching it back.I don't want to be that guy and I am not sure if it is the jpeg compression, but there is banding in all of them. Its this color blocking that happens across a large area of the image that creates the banding on the uniform gradient of the sky too. Nice colors on the third one...I might be to sensitive for it cause I spent too much time pixel peeping my slog2 footage , so don't let me stop you from using s-log3. Gregormannschaft 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oliver Daniel Posted January 11, 2016 Author Share Posted January 11, 2016 I've been trying out this rather neat LUT called Prime Time: https://vimeo.com/146809144I like what it's doing so far. The correction seems minor but in a huge way. The guy said it's designed for Cine4, but I've used it on a modified Slog2 profile and got decent results: Volker Schmidt 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volker Schmidt Posted January 11, 2016 Share Posted January 11, 2016 That's a nice discovery!Thanks for sharing! Looks like a still from an Antonioni film... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dean Posted January 12, 2016 Share Posted January 12, 2016 Looks very nice! I might have an extra tinker with Slog3 as i much prefer it to Slog2 (on the FS7). When i get a well lit, bright scene I'll give it a go!For those having difficulty with the back LCd, get a 5" inch monitor to clip on the top. Much better. Sure, you could put a 5" monitor onto of the camera but it then looses it's stealth quality. Not a solution. Seems ridiculous that the screen and EVF darken when hitting the record button. Makes all Sony cameras totally unusable for me ... I simply can not see anything on the LCD in bright light.. Must have something to do with overheating I guess. I hope this is fixed in the next round of A7 cameras. Doesn't happen in other 4k internal shooting cameras ... only Sony have this problem. mojo43 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tellure Posted January 12, 2016 Share Posted January 12, 2016 Agree ... I'm not sure why this doesn't piss more people off. I actually sold my A7Rii and my RX100IV because of this. Just can't see what your doing when trying to film outdoors esp when bright. Even the EVF dims in 4k. 1080p doesn't dim ... at least not on the A7Rii.Wow, I hope you let Sony know that was a deal-breaker for you. I also wish more people were complaining about this, it's been driving me nuts since I got the camera. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregormannschaft Posted January 12, 2016 Share Posted January 12, 2016 I don't want to be that guy and I am not sure if it is the jpeg compression, but there is banding in all of them. Its this color blocking that happens across a large area of the image that creates the banding on the uniform gradient of the sky too. Nice colors on the third one...I might be to sensitive for it cause I spent too much time pixel peeping my slog2 footage , so don't let me stop you from using s-log3. Not a problem, I see where you're coming from - it's definitely worse after JPEG compression but you'd see it with any kind of web compression anyway so better seeing it from post rather than pre compression. Either way, I'm still a massive fan of the SLOG 3 image. There's so much backlash and nitpicking online about Sony cameras (not pointing at you here, just seems to be a recurring trend, because of popularity perhaps), but I'm just really enjoying the A7SII. Yes, Sony could up the bitrate and add 422 or 10 bit, but until that day, it's such a great little camera capable of lovely photos and incredible video. love sticking a vintage lens on the camera, massively reducing it's size and getting those vintage characteristics. Don Kotlos 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oliver Daniel Posted January 12, 2016 Author Share Posted January 12, 2016 That's a nice discovery!Thanks for sharing!Looks like a still from an Antonioni film...The shoot is actually far from anything Antonioni! (it's actually a rap music video). I used the shoot to try out the different PP's, a there were a lot of different conditions. Modified Slog2 profiles and Cine4 are my favourite so far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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