Camera for Glidecam-work (without Aliasing/Moire)?

[Pitri]

Hi guys,

I'm looking for a new camera for a while and can't decide which one I should buy - I hope you can give me some advice.

Here some information:

• Purpose: Glidecam-work (mainly nature and friends with wide-angle lens)
•  >1080p 50fps (PAL) - as there are not really affordable 4k50fps camera around right now
•  Budget: max. $ 3.000
•  what's very important for me is handling of Aliasing/Moire - I hate it!

I already tried out the GH4 and A7s(mark 1) but was not quite happy with the results (1080p50fps quite soft on A7s, 1080p on GH4 has a lot Aliasing/Moire) so these two I don't want to buy
I also found the Blackmagic Micro Cinema Camera very pleasing but the release date got delayed so often since July 2015 (it's not out yet :/) and due to no OLPF I expect some Aliasing/Moire-issues.

According to Andrews reviews I found that the Sony RX10ii and Nikon D750 could be an option - they seem to have great 1080p quality and (almost) no Aliasing/Moire. The RX10ii seem to be a bit sharper but the "downsides" for me are that 24mm is the max. wide-angle you can go and the lens is focus-by-wire. On the Nikon it is - in comparison with Sony - the low bitrate and no internal focus-peaking.

Can somebody can recommend me a camera when sharp, aliasing/moire-free, 50fps video is my goal (or maybe another one besides these two)?

Thank you!

Regards
Peter

[Zach Ashcraft]

Always, I gotta tell this all the time, because this type of thing comes up.

If you would just experiment with your DSLR then this issue would not come up.

When you're shooting with a wide angle lens on a glidecam, its going to come up. 

[Nick Hughes]

When you're shooting with a wide angle lens on a glidecam, its going to come up. 

Not unless you throw on a couple promist filters to remove any aliasing... and any discernible detail.

[Cinegain]

Always, I gotta tell this all the time, because this type of thing comes up.

If you would just experiment with your DSLR then this issue would not come up.

Your methods sometimes seem like taking a military obstacle course to work rather than taking the bus.

You do know that taking the bus gets you there faster, right? And keeps you dry when it rains, or warm when it's cold... etc.

I mean, that you want to tinker around with your 6 years old T2i is all well... but to me it seems like a lot of wasted money and energy. And although you claim it to be, it will never reach Alexa-like picture quality. Do you have any actual experience shooting other cameras? If you did, you might realize what you're missing out on. Especially rolling these cameras out in the field. Don't understand why you haven't just gotten yourself a BMPCC already. Or a G6... G7... anything, really. I think in a few years you look back and say 'I was so stubborn, haha, I guess I was just looking for a challenge but ended up limiting myself'. But hey, we all got to make our choices, see how they pan out and learn from them. Though, if I stuck to shooting stills with my 2MP Kodak, I would really be seriously missing out by now and be outclassed by any camera, smartphone and webcam. We're in a digital era. You can't really allow yourself to fall behind. And technologic advancements are not here to hurt us, they're here to make our lives that much easier. I'd embrace it, not fight it. That would for sure leave you with more time and energy for other things... people want to create, be creative... sounds like those people could spend their time and energy more wisely than trying to find cumbersome solutions to problems that could be handled with more effectively. My 2 cts.

[AaronChicago]

GH4 4K has virtually no moire. You mentioned 1080 but hopefully you tried 4K.

[Nikkor]

True but some people need the obstacle to get better at filmmaking.

He is actually going to shoot something.

[Mozim]

I've used the Panasonic GH3 fairly extensively for Steadycam work. The 1080p/50fps looks fine. To be honest I never noticed any moiré or aliasing. I usually use it with a Tokina 11-16mm f/2.8 stopped down to f/4. The only things that really do bother me are the dynamic range (or lack thereof) and the colors. In fact I've used the Nikon D750 as my A-Cam for almost a year now and when shooting with both the GH3 and the D750, I find myself hating the GH3 image more and more. The colors look wrong and it's very difficult to match them. I love the D750 but it's not going to be as sharp or detailed as the GH3. 

You mention that the D750 doesn't have a very high internal bitrate or internal focus peaking. Both don't really matter when shooting steadycam stuff. The image grades extremely well, way better than it should anyway. And you're not going to need internal focus peaking if you're shooting at <24mm - unless you're doing super high end stuff, and in that case you're not going to rely on the internal focus peaking anyway. 

[joema]

• Purpose: Glidecam-work (mainly nature and friends with wide-angle lens)
•  >1080p 50fps (PAL) - as there are not really affordable 4k50fps camera around right now
•  Budget: max. $ 3.000
•  what's very important for me is handling of Aliasing/Moire - I hate it! 

My team uses various cameras on the big GlideCam X10 vest. There are pros and cons to each, but we recently got a little DJI Osmo X3, which works very well, including 4K. I've seen some complaints about image quality but IMO it looks pretty good.  After more evaluation we might get the m-4/3 X5, which is about $2,500 for the entire kit:  http://store.dji.com/product/osmo?gclid=Cj0KEQiA_fy0BRCwiLaQ5-iFgpwBEiQA884sOWChvTEJP_NXFyi9eehMdcvgfrgVbR0hDlofzxnQlQEaArXK8P8HAQ

Here is some material from the X5 (not mine, I just found it): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FVV9sjmJxmg

Low-light test shot with DJI Osmo X5: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ot7RjZpoR0M

[Pitri]

Thanks so far for your answers!

Always, I gotta tell this all the time, because this type of thing comes up.

If you would just experiment with your DSLR then this issue would not come up.

 

Your methods sometimes seem like taking a military obstacle course to work rather than taking the bus.

You do know that taking the bus gets you there faster, right? And keeps you dry when it rains, or warm when it's cold... etc.

I mean, that you want to tinker around with your 6 years old T2i is all well... but to me it seems like a lot of wasted money and energy. And although you claim it to be, it will never reach Alexa-like picture quality. Do you have any actual experience shooting other cameras? If you did, you might realize what you're missing out on. Especially rolling these cameras out in the field. Don't understand why you haven't just gotten yourself a BMPCC already. Or a G6... G7... anything, really. I think in a few years you look back and say 'I was so stubborn, haha, I guess I was just looking for a challenge but ended up limiting myself'. But hey, we all got to make our choices, see how they pan out and learn from them. Though, if I stuck to shooting stills with my 2MP Kodak, I would really be seriously missing out by now and be outclassed by any camera, smartphone and webcam. We're in a digital era. You can't really allow yourself to fall behind. And technologic advancements are not here to hurt us, they're here to make our lives that much easier. I'd embrace it, not fight it. That would for sure leave you with more time and energy for other things... people want to create, be creative... sounds like those people could spend their time and energy more wisely than trying to find cumbersome solutions to problems that could be handled with more effectively. My 2 cts.

That's true and I know that it can be avoided (zoom in, different angle, slightly out of focus, softer lens ...) but for Run & Gun shooting I prefer "just taking the bus" and often don't have the time to look for aliasing/moire - especially on the Glidecam.

 

GH4 4K has virtually no moire. You mentioned 1080 but hopefully you tried 4K.

Yes I tried it (it's very clean) but unfortunately no 50fps which is important for me (GH5 expected to come out later this year - maybe then we get 4k50p :D)

 

I've used the Panasonic GH3 fairly extensively for Steadycam work. The 1080p/50fps looks fine. To be honest I never noticed any moiré or aliasing. I usually use it with a Tokina 11-16mm f/2.8 stopped down to f/4. The only things that really do bother me are the dynamic range (or lack thereof) and the colors. In fact I've used the Nikon D750 as my A-Cam for almost a year now and when shooting with both the GH3 and the D750, I find myself hating the GH3 image more and more. The colors look wrong and it's very difficult to match them. I love the D750 but it's not going to be as sharp or detailed as the GH3. 

You mention that the D750 doesn't have a very high internal bitrate or internal focus peaking. Both don't really matter when shooting steadycam stuff. The image grades extremely well, way better than it should anyway. And you're not going to need internal focus peaking if you're shooting at <24mm - unless you're doing super high end stuff, and in that case you're not going to rely on the internal focus peaking anyway. 

Thanks - the color science of Nikon looks great indeed! Is there much difference in terms of sharpness/detail between the GH3 and D750?

 

My team uses various cameras on the big GlideCam X10 vest. There are pros and cons to each, but we recently got a little DJI Osmo X3, which works very well, including 4K. I've seen some complaints about image quality but IMO it looks pretty good.  After more evaluation we might get the m-4/3 X5, which is about $2,500 for the entire kit:  http://store.dji.com/product/osmo?gclid=Cj0KEQiA_fy0BRCwiLaQ5-iFgpwBEiQA884sOWChvTEJP_NXFyi9eehMdcvgfrgVbR0hDlofzxnQlQEaArXK8P8HAQ

Here is some material from the X5 (not mine, I just found it): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FVV9sjmJxmg

Low-light test shot with DJI Osmo X5: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ot7RjZpoR0M

I never thought of that little camera. The X3 looks like a "mini GoPro" with gimbal - the X5 sounds quite nice with MFT but I still tend to something like a RX10ii / D750,...