RED Scarlet-W

[Oliver Daniel]

Recently I've pulled out some of my R3D files to just have a play. It's reminded me just how meaty and juicy REDCode is. 

I've not shot RED for a while - my skill set at the time meant I had a very challenging time using the cameras. The results were OK, yet I was delighted at the overall image quality possible. 

I've only used the Epic MX, never the RED One, Scarlet, Dragon's or Weapon. These new models have caught my eye, the Raven and now the Scarlet-W. 

Been using the A7SII extensively lately. Great little cam for what it can do, although the feel of the image, battery life and rolling shutter sends me bonkers. What I love about it though is how it can be adapted to so many lenses, making creativity a more fulfilling experience. 

There's a lot of power I miss in those RED files though, and I'm probably going to rent out the Scarlet-W regularly this year (plus Ursa Mini, Arri Alexa Mini, C300 2) It's a compelling palette for greater creativity and quality. Those high frame rates! Compressed raw! Ideal for me. 

Any other forum users experienced with RED? Would you say the RED ecosystem is worth it's time and money? 

Share, debate, whatever.  

Cheers 

 

 

[Jonesy Jones]

I look forward to hearing your thoughts on those cameras as that's quite a list. Please do share your experiences if that's convenient enough. The only camera within grasp for me is the URSA mini, so hearing how it stacks up to them will be extremely interesting.

[AaronChicago]

I've had this conversation at Reduser about C100mkII vs Raven/Scarlet. People who used both said that they're totally different beasts and you have to figure out what suits your shooting needs the most. Some of them actually own both for different scenarios. Basically RED is awesome when you have time on your side. Music videos, commercials, features. I'm hoping to save enough capital this year to have both in my arsenal as well since my work is about 50/50 music videos/commercial and run'n'gun.

[Oliver Daniel]

I've had this conversation at Reduser about C100mkII vs Raven/Scarlet. People who used both said that they're totally different beasts and you have to figure out what suits your shooting needs the most. Some of them actually own both for different scenarios. Basically RED is awesome when you have time on your side. Music videos, commercials, features. I'm hoping to save enough capital this year to have both in my arsenal as well since my work is about 50/50 music videos/commercial and run'n'gun.

Yep, I love using the C-series cameras although I see their usage ideally for documentary type projects/run n gun. I don't do a lot of that. 

This year, I've got quite a big change in work type. Got quite a chunk of commercial work coming in, as well as music videos. As we want to showreel our footage so both go hand in hand, we're looking for a consistent, juicy and cinematic image rendition to round-off our "brand" look of the imagery. 

I liked through a lot of my archived footage, and I loved the R3D footage far more than anything else. Quite obviously. Maybe. 

So I'm going to try out a few different beasts for different scenarios, and see how everything falls in place over the year. I expect the Scarlet-W will be my most rented camera of the year. The content quality must increase, not decrease. I found using the Epic at the time affected the quality of the content negatively due to the increased focus on camera operating, but things are much different now. I have a team and much more experience now. 

On paper, how do you think it compares to Raven? Scarlet-W worth the extra £££?

p.s On another note, although entirely different... the JVC GY LS300 is overlooked as a cost effective "does the job" type of camera for bread and butter jobs. 

[AaronChicago]

Yep, I love using the C-series cameras although I see their usage ideally for documentary type projects/run n gun. I don't do a lot of that. 

This year, I've got quite a big change in work type. Got quite a chunk of commercial work coming in, as well as music videos. As we want to showreel our footage so both go hand in hand, we're looking for a consistent, juicy and cinematic image rendition to round-off our "brand" look of the imagery. 

I liked through a lot of my archived footage, and I loved the R3D footage far more than anything else. Quite obviously. Maybe. 

So I'm going to try out a few different beasts for different scenarios, and see how everything falls in place over the year. I expect the Scarlet-W will be my most rented camera of the year. The content quality must increase, not decrease. I found using the Epic at the time affected the quality of the content negatively due to the increased focus on camera operating, but things are much different now. I have a team and much more experience now. 

On paper, how do you think it compares to Raven? Scarlet-W worth the extra £££?

p.s On another note, although entirely different... the JVC GY LS300 is overlooked as a cost effective "does the job" type of camera for bread and butter jobs. 

Scarlet is a better camera for sure but they both have the Dragon sensor and the Standard OLPF which is a huge deal. There's a bit more of a crop on the Raven as well. Between S35 and M43.

[Oliver Daniel]

Scarlet is a better camera for sure but they both have the Dragon sensor and the Standard OLPF which is a huge deal. There's a bit more of a crop on the Raven as well. Between S35 and M43.

I'd love to see the impact the crop makes, see how significant it is. 

Scarlet-W has interchangeable lens mounts, however most of my lenses are EF mount. 

The most disappointing things out the URSA Mini is the extreme 120fps crop. Although I'm sure that camera will turn out marvellous.

I love the thickness of the RED image. Looking forward to giving them a whirl again. 

Are you saving up for a RED package Aaron? 

[AaronChicago]

I'd love to see the impact the crop makes, see how significant it is. 

Scarlet-W has interchangeable lens mounts, however most of my lenses are EF mount. 

The most disappointing things out the URSA Mini is the extreme 120fps crop. Although I'm sure that camera will turn out marvellous.

I love the thickness of the RED image. Looking forward to giving them a whirl again. 

Are you saving up for a RED package Aaron? 

I am. Probably going to wait till next year to get it. I still love my C100 and will keep it, but there are times when i want that thick RED image. I'm not a fan of the new BM 4k,4.6k cameras images. I know 4.6k is still beta but other factors are making me think it's not the camera for me as well.

[andrgl]

Used Epic with the Mysterium-X sensor. That's what I have my sights on currently. Rented a kit last week. Blown-the-fuck-away.

You're right Oliver. Dat redcode is so thick and dense.

Fuck it, even at $20K, it's a cam I can use for the next decade: 16-ish usable stops with HDRx. 120 FPS 4K, RAW format... Bonkers.

[andrgl]

even at $20K

Er, all inclusive of course. Monitor, SSDs, batteries, rails, remote, etc.

How much is the Raven or W kitted out?

[Geoff CB]

The Raven's EOS only mount and crop is ridiculous at this level of investment. I'm interested going Red when I get higher end, but Super 35 or bust.

[Oliver Daniel]

I am. Probably going to wait till next year to get it. I still love my C100 and will keep it, but there are times when i want that thick RED image. I'm not a fan of the new BM 4k,4.6k cameras images. I know 4.6k is still beta but other factors are making me think it's not the camera for me as well.

Nice one! I'm not thinking of major camera ownership just yet. Need to keep improving my content and seeing if it's a worthwhile proposition in future.  

The Raven's EOS only mount and crop is ridiculous at this level of investment. I'm interested going Red when I get higher end, but Super 35 or bust.

I agree that it's a hindrance. It's an eye opener when you switch the A7SII full frame mode to the cropped 120fps. The image is almost completely different.

I think the Scarlet-W will be the better option as a long term "investment". Looking forward to see how they grow and using them on some projects. 

[IronFilm]

 

p.s On another note, although entirely different... the JVC GY LS300 is overlooked as a cost effective "does the job" type of camera for bread and butter jobs. 

just got a five hundred drop in price too!

[Towd]

The Raven's EOS only mount and crop is ridiculous at this level of investment. I'm interested going Red when I get higher end, but Super 35 or bust.

I think you are doing yourself a big disservice with this kind of attitude.  Red is a great professional option.  You can like it or not, but don't avoid it just because you think the sensor is too small.  FWIW, if you shoot on a Red Weapon at 4k you'll be using the same sensor area as the Raven.  From what I can tell, the same goes for the Red One or Red Epic.  Red seems to keep its photo sites the same size across different sensors, so the exposure area only get larger as the resolution goes up.  Just seems to be a Red thing.

Personally, if the image that comes off the camera looks great, the sensor size is secondary to me.  Just shoot with wider lenses and adjust accordingly.

[Geoff CB]

I think you are doing yourself a big disservice with this kind of attitude.  Red is a great professional option.  You can like it or not, but don't avoid it just because you think the sensor is too small.  FWIW, if you shoot on a Red Weapon at 4k you'll be using the same sensor area as the Raven.  From what I can tell, the same goes for the Red One or Red Epic.  Red seems to keep its photo sites the same size across different sensors, so the exposure area only get larger as the resolution goes up.  Just seems to be a Red thing.

Personally, if the image that comes off the camera looks great, the sensor size is secondary to me.  Just shoot with wider lenses and adjust accordingly.

The mount in combination with the crop is what I find troubling. If I'm spending 10,000+ to rig a RED camera I better have the ability to rent and use PL glass. 

[andrgl]

Just shoot with wider lenses and adjust accordingly.

I think Geoff's point is valid. The wider I'm forced to go, the slower the lenses become.

Obviously not an issue if you want deep DOF. But some of us love wide and shallow*.

*So much so that I'll usually cheat and dress the BG with oversized items so I can push it back even further in my shot.

[graphicnatured]

 

I agree that it's a hindrance. It's an eye opener when you switch the A7SII full frame mode to the cropped 120fps. The image is almost completely different.

Same thing that gives me pause with the Ursa Mini, even if I end up being sold on the image, is windowed slow mo. If it weren't windowed it may be a no-brainer.

[Jonesy Jones]

It is my understanding that the URSA mini is not windowed until you shoot above 60 fps. And yes, 120 would be windowed. 

Same thing that gives me pause with the Ursa Mini, even if I end up being sold on the image, is windowed slow mo. If it weren't windowed it may be a no-brainer.

[Oliver Daniel]

The mount in combination with the crop is what I find troubling. If I'm spending 10,000+ to rig a RED camera I better have the ability to rent and use PL glass. 

I used a GH3 without a Speedbooster for nearly 3 years with no real issues from being used to a super 35 image. That said, it's good to have the option. The Raven crop might be a pain, but only actually using the camera will reveal how problematic it is for Super 35 shooters. 

Same thing that gives me pause with the Ursa Mini, even if I end up being sold on the image, is windowed slow mo. If it weren't windowed it may be a no-brainer.

This is my biggest beef with the Ursa Mini. HFR is vital for my type of work, so RED can really work out - as do Sony cameras (minus the "difficult" colour). I hope they can improve this with later firmware. 

I'm more curious how these lighter, smaller cameras can be rigged for one to two man operation. Tried it with the Epic and ouch!! Maybe last time it was overloaded. Probably.

[Mattias Burling]

My R1 has windowed modes for slowmo. IMO its all good. Im not experiencing any "issue" with it.
And also, its a crop, so no line skipping or slowmo-aliasing like previous cameras Ive owned.
My point I guess is, don't let it ruin an otherwise "perfect" camera (if thats your only beef that is).

 

[Towd]

Yeah, this is just my point.  Unless you want to fork over the money for a Red Weapon, you are going to be making a trade off.  The trade off with the Raven is that you will be shooting using Red's 4.5k  or 4k sensor size for your projects instead of the 6k size.  I know for people who are used to shooting full frame or S35 this feels like a big trade off, but at least the FOV can be compensated for with lens and framing.  It is a lot harder to fix bad color that was shot on an inferior sensor-- and many times can't be fixed.

If you shoot with PL glass, spend another $5k and get the Scarlet-w.

I sound like a Red fanboy and I'm not.  I've just graded a lot of Red footage in addition to Sony, Canon, Nikon, GoPro, DJI, Phantom flex, and others.  Red is just a very workable image that gives nice results.  Same can't be said for some of those other options.  

Obviously, different tools for different projects, but I hate to see people write off a Red just because the sensor is slightly smaller than S35.