kidzrevil Posted January 30, 2016 Author Share Posted January 30, 2016 A 5DIII plus ML is the best video camera money can buy under 5000$. My opinion.Some other cameras have higher resolution for cropping (4k) but none has the colour fedility and overal much better film like image quality. It's 14bit FF 1080p. No other camera provides that killer aesthetic combo. Just simply a better image than GH4/A7S/NX1 even C100/II. All of these have thin 8bit colours, unacceptable rolling shutter, macroblocking and compression artefacts, imposed video-ish digital sharpening, And not just in sheer image quality but ergonomics and usability which overlooked. The 5DIII is the nicest body I've used, the size/weight/robustness, button/dial placement for exposure & WB changing, plus all the video features you can imagine as in focus peaking, zebras, waveform, even false colour, intervalometer, fps adjustable from 0.125 to 30p, RGB histogram, smooth AUTO ISO shifts, and much more.And if you pay and get the absolute best cards, it's as reliable as any camera, more reliable than the pocket in my experience which is very finicky with card choice (but both reliable for pro work - trust me) Plus the 5D has a sensor crop mode, to pocket size-ish with almost 2.5k/3K resolution. The audio quality is vastly superior to the pocket, so is the speed of settings adjustment, boot up time, focusing ease, LCD quality, EF lenses FF with IS, battery life (pocket nightmare), dual card slots, Just a wonderful piece of kit. Not to mention the stills and timelapse benefit.Downsides: -no EVF --> fixed with loup.-No 4K resolution --> I much refer the better colours, DR and bigger sensor and lowlight, especially since it's a very sharp 1080p image.-no small codecs like ProRes --> if you're restricted with storage. 5D raw package will be a relevant camera for as long as HD exists (years and years to come) and even the 5DIV will not get the ML or RAW most likely just h.264 4K. Pocket camera is unfair to compare to a 3x more expensive camera with a s16 vs FF sensor.But for someone who wants to get the 5Draw-ish image on a low budget the pocket provides that, a very very thick s16 cinematic image (and 1.7x with SB) with wonderfull skin and colour science. Great camera too. Just lower-end and thus costs less with the corresponding downsides. It's a hell of a filmic image for so little money. Just out the box with a cheap 50mm prime blew me away. The ability to shoot small yet-still-great ProRes files is the one advantage over the 5D otherwise he 5DIII is the better (and more expensive camera) For anyone looking for the absolute best IQ and doesn't 'need' 4K delivery:Go or the 5DIII ML or BM Pocket/2.5kbmcc. depending on budget and need.you make a good argument about the 5DIII in comparison to other cams. I do not want ANY in cam sharpening and dslr's force that shit down your throat !!! The idea of a digital negative when shooting raw is appealing but the file sizes aren't but understandably it comes with the territory. I see the latest ML update came out in december 2015 so I guess it should be damn stable with 2 years of those guys working on it since the debut of raw. I currently have the NX1 which gives very pleasing colors out the box, doesn't look 8 bit but in some shooting scenarios the macroblocking is there. Definitely food for thought. may end up renting a 5d before i decide to pull the trigger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hans Punk Posted January 30, 2016 Share Posted January 30, 2016 you can actually rent a 5D3 or 2 with magic lantern pre-installed (and with a bunch of fast CF cards) here in the UK - So am sure you will find someone in the US.The main reason ML development has become less frequent is because the limits of what can be squeezed from those cameras has pretty much been reached. And the main developers are now working on the code for an upcoming open source camera. Most incremental ML updates are tweaks and occasional bug fixes. You really need to invest decent time in the ML forum to learn things properly, it is not exactly 'plug and play' - but the payoff is well worth it. kidzrevil 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kgv5 Posted January 30, 2016 Share Posted January 30, 2016 I have just finished two short videos from last year vacations. Shot with 5d3 with ML installed in raw. mercer 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jara Moravec Posted January 30, 2016 Share Posted January 30, 2016 I cannot sing the praise of 5D loud enough.I was one of the first people to buy 5D2 and had it for 5 years with not a single issue until I moved onto 5D3. I have been using ML RAW for all my work for last 2-3 years and while it can crash, you simply restart the camera and keep on shooting. Lately I have been having issues with a one random corrupt pink looking DNG file but that might be 3rd party battery grip..For my style of work the storage is not an issue - I bough 4x 128 GB cards which are enough for 3 hours of shooting - when I need more, I have DIT assistant to copy the files or do it myself. You can transfer MLV files into virtual DNG via MLVFS and then use Resolve to get your footage fairly quickly. I then keep ProRes master and delete MLV files. The only expense at the moment is buying 2TB external drive every couple of months (£80?). I am still waiting for a camera that would actually be better than this and would not cost more than £5K. I think these videos show the colour depth you can get with 5D pretty well: kidzrevil and kaylee 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taranis Posted January 30, 2016 Share Posted January 30, 2016 I have just finished two short videos from last year vacations. Shot with 5d3 with ML installed in raw.Absolutely love colors of this camera, however there is one thing I notice in almost all 5D3 RAW videos. That aliasing in the first video at 2:20 at the fence for example, pretty ugly. I'm considering an FS700 + 7Q (for RAW), but I wonder if that could give me colors like this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kgv5 Posted January 30, 2016 Share Posted January 30, 2016 "That aliasing in the first video at 2:20 at the fence for example, pretty ugly."Yes, you are right but i think this comes more from my mistake than from hardware side, i am still learning resolve. I will post couple of original DNGs from this particular moment for you to check. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taranis Posted January 30, 2016 Share Posted January 30, 2016 "That aliasing in the first video at 2:20 at the fence for example, pretty ugly."Yes, you are right but i think this comes more from my mistake than from hardware side, i am still learning resolve. I will post couple of original DNGs from this particular moment for you to check.Thanks that would be greatly appreciated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kgv5 Posted January 30, 2016 Share Posted January 30, 2016 Thanks that would be greatly appreciated.DNGs:https://www.dropbox.com/sh/n7eksew7jynt6ya/AAASjbpnpvhw0c9vX8PfgANza?dl=0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taranis Posted January 30, 2016 Share Posted January 30, 2016 DNGs:https://www.dropbox.com/sh/n7eksew7jynt6ya/AAASjbpnpvhw0c9vX8PfgANza?dl=0It seems it wasn't your mistake at all, it's clearly there in the DNG files. And as I said I see it in almost all 5D3 videos, it must be a ML thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DPStewart Posted January 31, 2016 Share Posted January 31, 2016 It seems it wasn't your mistake at all, it's clearly there in the DNG files. And as I said I see it in almost all 5D3 videos, it must be a ML thing.No digital cameras are completely and totally free of aliasing.They all will exhibit artifacts in some instances. The majority of million-dollar movies have artifacts in them somewhere - be it aliasing, moire, noise, etc., even the Arri Alexa can produce the "black hole sun" artifact in the right conditions.The whole ballgame is to get a great overall image. For $2,500 the Canon 5D with Magic Lantern does so good a job that nearly nothing in that price range can equal it.My Panasonic GH2's, because of their design, have nearly zero aliasing and moire when compared to a 5D, and they are sharper than a 5D not shooting ML RAW...but does that make them a better image? Hahahaha! No way! Not even close!Don't get hung up on small image artifacts because every camera has them in one way or another. Look at the overall image. The whole picture. Do you like it for the job you're shooting? Do others watch it and also like it? If the answer is 'yes' then you win. Nothing more to be done there. There's always a more expensive camera out there and they're usually better too, but you have to work within reasonable expectations or you'll drive yourself crazy needlessly.If any camera for $2,500 new could deliver images as widely liked as the 5D with ML RAW it would take over. Sony thought they had it with the A7 cameras..BZZZT! Already selling for half price in the used market and being dumped by enormous numbers of early adopters. Trust your gut. Don't fixate on specs. kgv5 - your stuff is gorgeous. Zak Forsman 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kidzrevil Posted January 31, 2016 Author Share Posted January 31, 2016 I cannot sing the praise of 5D loud enough.I was one of the first people to buy 5D2 and had it for 5 years with not a single issue until I moved onto 5D3. I have been using ML RAW for all my work for last 2-3 years and while it can crash, you simply restart the camera and keep on shooting. Lately I have been having issues with a one random corrupt pink looking DNG file but that might be 3rd party battery grip..For my style of work the storage is not an issue - I bough 4x 128 GB cards which are enough for 3 hours of shooting - when I need more, I have DIT assistant to copy the files or do it myself. You can transfer MLV files into virtual DNG via MLVFS and then use Resolve to get your footage fairly quickly. I then keep ProRes master and delete MLV files. The only expense at the moment is buying 2TB external drive every couple of months (£80?). I am still waiting for a camera that would actually be better than this and would not cost more than £5K. I think these videos show the colour depth you can get with 5D pretty well: "the next big thing" video looks awesome !! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taranis Posted January 31, 2016 Share Posted January 31, 2016 Don't get hung up on small image artifacts because every camera has them in one way or another. Look at the overall image. The whole picture. Do you like it for the job you're shooting? Do others watch it and also like it? If the answer is 'yes' then you win. Nothing more to be done there. There's always a more expensive camera out there and they're usually better too, but you have to work within reasonable expectations or you'll drive yourself crazy needlessly. I see your point but I just can't get past the aliasing, it's just so evident. For me it's like you see it once and then you see it everywhere. The overall image is gorgeous though, nothing can beat it in this price range, no argument there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmcindie Posted January 31, 2016 Share Posted January 31, 2016 5d iii raw aliasing is a non-issue. BMCC aliases about 2x more and even moires which the 5d doesn't do. Most of the time the aliasing can be seen if using sharpening in the Adobe ACR module. If you don't use it, the aliasing mostly will never appear.Also just show a new music video for a local band. Used the FS7 and the 5d iii raw. Loved the 5d iii raw way more, what can I say? 14bit 1080p full frame stills. Goddamn. No other camera comes close (except Amira and I actually like the usability of the 5d iii more! Also the Amira has a really shitty lcd that ghostes like crazy when the temperature drops.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DPStewart Posted January 31, 2016 Share Posted January 31, 2016 5d iii raw aliasing is a non-issue. BMCC aliases about 2x more and even moires which the 5d doesn't do. Most of the time the aliasing can be seen if using sharpening in the Adobe ACR module. If you don't use it, the aliasing mostly will never appear.Also just show a new music video for a local band. Used the FS7 and the 5d iii raw. Loved the 5d iii raw way more, what can I say? 14bit 1080p full frame stills. Goddamn. No other camera comes close (except Amira and I actually like the usability of the 5d iii more! Also the Amira has a really shitty lcd that ghostes like crazy when the temperature drops.) There ya go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hans Punk Posted January 31, 2016 Share Posted January 31, 2016 DNGs:https://www.dropbox.com/sh/n7eksew7jynt6ya/AAASjbpnpvhw0c9vX8PfgANza?dl=0 Out of interest - what method did you use to convert to .dng? Was it from MLV or 'regular' raw file from the camera? I see some black stripes in there that could be adding to the moire effect - I've not experienced these artifacts at all since using the 'non-alpha' builds of any conversion software.If using 5D2 for ML raw video:Many people use a VAF-5D2 filter to eliminate aliasing on 5D2 when shooting raw (5D2's main weakness in shooting any video) - it's especially visible when seeing the clarity given with ML raw video. I've never had any aliasing issues on 5D3 unless shooting 50p - where it skips lines to get the readout from the sensor to a slow enough writing speed for the buffer to cope with...as long as you avoid contrasty vertical or horizontal lines however, it is often not a visible problem.http://www.eoshd.com/2012/02/canon-5d-mark-ii-mosaic-engineering-vaf-5d2-anti-aliasing-filter-review/ kaylee 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kidzrevil Posted January 31, 2016 Author Share Posted January 31, 2016 for 10 seconds at a time, and stills, yeah 5d, but if you want most reliable raw video and don't love tiny sensor, maybe BMCC - probably still cheaper than what you're looking at. better resolution than both, great sensor size when speedboosted, best blackmagic image I've seen, better battery life (but trickier when it dies... probably battery solution needed). 5d raw is great though of course. can't wait to see what you can do with this edit: plus the bmcc is huge.....still weighing out my options ! I was gonna invest in the 21,35,50 & 85 mm zeiss milvus...but if I get the 5D i'll just settle for the sigma art lenses or 1 or 2 zeiss glass. Really weighing out my options right now ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mercer Posted January 31, 2016 Share Posted January 31, 2016 still weighing out my options ! I was gonna invest in the 21,35,50 & 85 mm zeiss milvus...but if I get the 5D i'll just settle for the sigma art lenses or 1 or 2 zeiss glass. Really weighing out my options right now !I don't think you can use the sigma art with the 5d, I think they're made for aps-c sensors not full frame. I would think your Nikkors would be great for the 5D. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kidzrevil Posted January 31, 2016 Author Share Posted January 31, 2016 I don't think you can use the sigma art with the 5d, I think they're made for aps-c sensors not full frame. I would think your Nikkors would be great for the 5D. the nikkors are gone ! Pawned em all off on ebay. Im really making the leap to the zeiss milvus glass. I may just get one or two instead of the whole set and get the 5D as a second body. I've seen a lot of great work posted here from the 5D but none seems night and day in comparison to the image I am getting out of the nx1 to be honest but then again I am looking at it compressed on the web. I am just not seeing the dramatic difference everyone is claiming...you've seen my gh4 & nx1 work afterall... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kgv5 Posted January 31, 2016 Share Posted January 31, 2016 Out of interest - what method did you use to convert to .dng? Was it from MLV or 'regular' raw file from the camera? I see some black stripes in there that could be adding to the moire effect - I've not experienced these artifacts at all since using the 'non-alpha' builds of any conversion software.If using 5D2 for ML raw video:Many people use a VAF-5D2 filter to eliminate aliasing on 5D2 when shooting raw (5D2's main weakness in shooting any video) - it's especially visible when seeing the clarity given with ML raw video. I've never had any aliasing issues on 5D3 unless shooting 50p - where it skips lines to get the readout from the sensor to a slow enough writing speed for the buffer to cope with...as long as you avoid contrasty vertical or horizontal lines however, it is often not a visible problem.http://www.eoshd.com/2012/02/canon-5d-mark-ii-mosaic-engineering-vaf-5d2-anti-aliasing-filter-review/Yeah, maybe software caused aliasing more visible. This time I used some of the older builds of mlrawviewer 1.4.1 (i am on PC) to convert MLVs to DNGs (but with vertical stripes correction ON). Normally i use MLVFS almost all the time. That little amount of aliasing doesnt bother me at all in fact (only visible in very high contrast places). Little bit of sharpening could also make it look worse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rak_heri Posted February 1, 2016 Share Posted February 1, 2016 I have just finished two short videos from last year vacations. Shot with 5d3 with ML installed in raw.Very nice work. What gimbal do you use? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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