Petition for Samsung NX1 hack

[vaga]

If Kino Seed can get this out of his NX500 with bitrate hack, I think you have very little to worry about using this camera in lowlight. @kinoseed what are your in camera settings? (I guess there's no Gamma DR on the NX500, so this will make a very interesting answer, I think.)

[Marco Tecno]

10 hours ago, kidzrevil said:

@sandro lol theres no way a bitrate hack can turn this camera into a low light camera. Not happening

Yes. But as already said, the still raw images are very good at iso 3200, especially when downsized to 16mp or lower. So...we should find out what's up with video. Why so much worse than raw unprocessed stills?

[kinoseed]

3 hours ago, vaga said:

If Kino Seed can get this out of his NX500 with bitrate hack, I think you have very little to worry about using this camera in lowlight. @kinoseed what are your in camera settings? (I guess there's no Gamma DR on the NX500, so this will make a very interesting answer, I think.)

about the exact setting, honestly - can't remember
it must have been with shot with the Rokinon, so assume F2
the original footage looks close the the second grading here, the first - curves correction was to check the details and info in the highlights, and the second for the shadows.

[kidzrevil]

@Marco Tecno I really think it may be the sharpening algorithim + the downscaling thats hiding the noise. Just my guess, I'm seeing and improved image with -5 sharpness. You're right we should look into it some more but I am not expecting it to perform dramatically better at 1600-3200. Let's keep our fingers crossed that we can squeeze an even better image out of the cam

update : forgot to mention the video maybe using the same processing used for jpg images which perform worse than the raw images. If we can get raw that would be a game changer

[SMGJohn]

49 minutes ago, kidzrevil said:

@Marco Tecno I really think it may be the sharpening algorithim + the downscaling thats hiding the noise. Just my guess, I'm seeing and improved image with -5 sharpness. You're right we should look into it some more but I am not expecting it to perform dramatically better at 1600-3200. Let's keep our fingers crossed that we can squeeze an even better image out of the cam

update : forgot to mention the video maybe using the same processing used for jpg images which perform worse than the raw images. If we can get raw that would be a game changer

When I did a JPEG vs video comparison, the JPEG even at highest compression still performed vastly superior to video even when JPEG was downscaled. Samsung is doing something funky weird stuff with the downscaling for video, that or its that cursed NR screwing up the image.

[kinoseed]

Bulbramping (minus the need for a "bulb")
just keep in mind, that NX500 when in rolling-shutter mode will not do longer than 1/15 exposures
have fun

[kidzrevil]

@NX1user wow ! Thank you :-D

[grey]

+1.I will donate too!you are making a big work guys!(do you think that there will be a small possibility to write a sort of freerun time code directly into the files of the nx1?)

[kevindba]

10 hours ago, kidzrevil said:

@NX1user wow ! Thank you :-D

Kid are these are your settings?

Normal Gamma | Saturation -4 | Sharpness -5 | Contrast - 3 | Master Black Level +15 Luminace Level- 16-235

 

[LawDude]

I just tested my NX1 using GammaDR, and sharpening at -5.  I shot in UHD, downscaled in Premiere Pro to 1080, and rendered out to a DVD.  The sharpening looks horrible, and very “video”-ish.  The in-camera sharpening is using a contrast-type of sharpening that produces artifacts in a radius around high-contrast objects.  You can confirm this increased contrast on a lumetri-scope.  On the other hand, setting sharpening at -10 produces beautiful results (without any post-sharpening), and none of the artifacts.

[kidzrevil]

Damn looks like we have to stick to -10 ? @LawDude

[SMGJohn]

12 hours ago, LawDude said:

I just tested my NX1 using GammaDR, and sharpening at -5.  I shot in UHD, downscaled in Premiere Pro to 1080, and rendered out to a DVD.  The sharpening looks horrible, and very “video”-ish.  The in-camera sharpening is using a contrast-type of sharpening that produces artifacts in a radius around high-contrast objects.  You can confirm this increased contrast on a lumetri-scope.  On the other hand, setting sharpening at -10 produces beautiful results (without any post-sharpening), and none of the artifacts.

Can you provide examples of this? Just so I can reproduce them.

[lucabutera]

On 20/5/2016 at 1:40 AM, kidzrevil said:

I put the NR theory to the test.

my theory is the -10 sharpness is actually smudging out the detail creating the NR look. You guys can test it out yourself  but I am using -5 sharpness now and the image is...incredible.

Very nice look! How much bitrate?

 

[kidzrevil]

180mbps ! :-) @lucabutera

[tugela]

23 hours ago, LawDude said:

I just tested my NX1 using GammaDR, and sharpening at -5.  I shot in UHD, downscaled in Premiere Pro to 1080, and rendered out to a DVD.  The sharpening looks horrible, and very “video”-ish.  The in-camera sharpening is using a contrast-type of sharpening that produces artifacts in a radius around high-contrast objects.  You can confirm this increased contrast on a lumetri-scope.  On the other hand, setting sharpening at -10 produces beautiful results (without any post-sharpening), and none of the artifacts.

Doubt it. What you are talking about is software sharpening. The "sharpening" that happens in camera is just a debeyering parameter. The camera either chooses luma weighted debeyering, or chroma weighted debeyering, depending on the settings chosen. Just remember though, once it is recorded, the information you have discarded by your choice can never be recovered. You cannot adjust it in post, because it is gone.

[kinoseed]

52 minutes ago, tugela said:

Doubt it. What you are talking about is software sharpening. The "sharpening" that happens in camera is just a debeyering parameter. The camera either chooses luma weighted debeyering, or chroma weighted debeyering, depending on the settings chosen. Just remember though, once it is recorded, the information you have discarded by your choice can never be recovered. You cannot adjust it in post, because it is gone.

Doubt it.
Sharpening has nothing to do with the debayer, and there was only one such pattern in the kernel that I saw, and if you were right, there would be only 2 settings.
However the most common (and seems here is no difference) is the USM (hence the halos). And yes, even debayer is done in software. ; )
imho to avoid the USM use -10

cheers
 

[Beritar]

I use -10 sharpness with wide focal length lenses (12mm to 30mm)  and -5 for longer focal length lenses (30-150).

By example, I get terrible results if i don't turn down the sharpness for landscapes.

 

[AaronL]

Anything other than -10 and you can notice haloing where there is sharp contrast of dark and light detail..

 

If you pay attention to circled area while the video plays you can see the effect it is having

 

[tugela]

16 hours ago, kinoseed said:

Doubt it.
Sharpening has nothing to do with the debayer, and there was only one such pattern in the kernel that I saw, and if you were right, there would be only 2 settings.
However the most common (and seems here is no difference) is the USM (hence the halos). And yes, even debayer is done in software. ; )
imho to avoid the USM use -10

cheers
 

Debeyering uses information from adjacent pixels to reconstitute the color of the virtual pixel. If you use information weighted to a large circle of probability, the color will be more accurate but resolution lost. If you reduce the weighting of that circle of probability then resolution will be maintained but color will be inaccurate. That is what creates the halos. You would only need one setting to do that.

Once debeyered, the image would have permanently lost the information that was discarded, so either color accuracy or resolution at boundaries. Operations in post cannot recover either.

[essbe]

Really love this hack, enabling silent shutter mode was enough to make me happy, and it's wonderful to see it progress. A strange request perhaps but would it be possible to disable the automatic image flip/horizontal alignment of the display so we could have an upside down image when the camera is upside down? Would be useful for me, but probably not for anyone else.