Petition for Samsung NX1 hack

[kidzrevil]

34 minutes ago, Chant said:

Minor update, still doing what Im doing, still digging and documenting what changes Im finding in the firmware, have started to explore with telnet and the camera. Its looking good. Have a few ideas on how it utilizes firmware updates but nothing solid yet. But I like how both stages are progressing. Although i wish I had more to show haha but dumping c isnt going to have a point! I should have a major update in a few days though!

Cant wait !

[/Chop N Shoot Films/]

4 hours ago, Chant said:

Minor update, still doing what Im doing, still digging and documenting what changes Im finding in the firmware, have started to explore with telnet and the camera. Its looking good. Have a few ideas on how it utilizes firmware updates but nothing solid yet. But I like how both stages are progressing. Although i wish I had more to show haha but dumping c isnt going to have a point! I should have a major update in a few days though!

??

[Vincent van den Akker]

Some results using gamma dr and osiris m31 lut. Would be great if the bitrate could be improved. Dynamic range and banding are the biggest problems in my opinion. And a button to switch quickly between movie resolutions and framerates. will come in real handy!

[LawDude]

6 hours ago, Vincent van den Akker said:

Some results using gamma dr and osiris m31 lut. Would be great if the bitrate could be improved. Dynamic range and banding are the biggest problems in my opinion. And a button to switch quickly between movie resolutions and framerates. will come in real handy!

Bitrate isn't going to eliminate the banding.  Banding is the result of only having 256 colors per channel on account of the 8-bit color space.  A 10-bit color space gives us 1024 colors per channel - that smooths the gradient, and gives you a smooth transition between shades of color (eg., going from lite blue to deep blue in a sky).

[AaronL]

2 hours ago, LawDude said:

Bitrate isn't going to eliminate the banding.  Banding is the result of only having 256 colors per channel on account of the 8-bit color space.  A 10-bit color space gives us 1024 colors per channel - that smooths the gradient, and gives you a smooth transition between shades of color (eg., going from lite blue to deep blue in a sky).

is it possible for the nx1 to have 10bit?..or even 12?

[Syme]

20 minutes ago, AaronL said:

is it possible for the nx1 to have 10bit?..or even 12?

For internal recording it's highly unlikely. It would require extensive modification to the digital design of the video encoder. I won't say it's strictly impossible, since the NX1 supposedly uses a re-configurable processor for some tasks. Unfortunately no one knows if HEVC encoding is one of those tasks, so no one can say for sure if it is possible or not. My opinion is that Samsung probably did the power-hungry video encoding with a dedicated hardware block for the sake of efficiency, but I don't actually know. Even if it is possible, the reverse engineering required to do it would be unlike anything that has been done before in a public project.

I sure hope it is possible, but it's a moon-shot at best.

On the other hand, external recording might be a more plausible option. If it turns out to be possible to get a hold of a buffer of 10 or 12 bit video data while recording, it may be possible to send that out over the HDMI port.

[Andrew Reid]

8 hours ago, LawDude said:

Bitrate isn't going to eliminate the banding.  Banding is the result of only having 256 colors per channel on account of the 8-bit color space.  A 10-bit color space gives us 1024 colors per channel - that smooths the gradient, and gives you a smooth transition between shades of color (eg., going from lite blue to deep blue in a sky).

There's an easy way to test whether it is compression / video related or a limitation of 8bit, find a blue sky and shoot an H.264 4K clip of it and an 8bit JPEG.

Bet the 8bit JPEG is ok. I think it's more a compression or 6K sensor output to 4K scaling issue.

[lucabutera]

1 hour ago, Andrew Reid said:

There's an easy way to test whether it is compression / video related or a limitation of 8bit, find a blue sky and shoot an H.264 4K clip of it and an 8bit JPEG.

Bet the 8bit JPEG is ok. I think it's more a compression or 6K sensor output to 4K scaling issue.

This make sense. If you try to shoot in 4K and in Uhd, banding and the macroblocks are more soft in 4K!

 

[MountneerMan]

I just got back from a trip to Spain and while there I found myself taking a lot of photos (more than usual) and switching back and forth between photos and videos became really annoying and got me thinking.

Is it possible to write a program like focus stacking one that when you push a combination of buttons it pulls up a menu with the following items that would perform the following tasks?

1. 3840x2160 24p
    - Record the current Shutter speed, aperture, ISO and WB into a file named “photo” on the SD card
    - Set the video resolution to 3840x2160 24p
    - Set the shutter speed to 1/50
    - Set the ISO and WB to values that are stored in a file named “3840x2160 24p” on the SD card
    - Enter into video stby mode
2. 1920x1080 120p
    - Similar as above except with different shutter speed, video resolution and ISO and WB from a file named “1920x1080 120p"
3. Return to photo settings
    - Check to see if the video resolution is set to UHD or HD and save the ISO and WB setting into files “3840x2160 24p” or “1920x1080 120p” respectfully
    - Restore the shutter speed, aperture, ISO and WB settings from file “photo” on the SD card.

I thinking this program would speed up my process of switching between photos and video and could even include things like different picture profiles for each resolution.

What does everyone else think? Is this possible to do using the st and prefman commands and is it even worth doing or is this not going to be useful to anyone but me?

[sidi]

Any idea as to why NX500's limit for 4K and FHD 50/60 still stands even though this topic would suggest the camera doesn't overheat?

[Geoff CB]

4 hours ago, MountneerMan said:

I just got back from a trip to Spain and while there I found myself taking a lot of photos (more than usual) and switching back and forth between photos and videos became really annoying and got me thinking.

Is it possible to write a program like focus stacking one that when you push a combination of buttons it pulls up a menu with the following items that would perform the following tasks?

1. 3840x2160 24p
    - Record the current Shutter speed, aperture, ISO and WB into a file named “photo” on the SD card
    - Set the video resolution to 3840x2160 24p
    - Set the shutter speed to 1/50
    - Set the ISO and WB to values that are stored in a file named “3840x2160 24p” on the SD card
    - Enter into video stby mode
2. 1920x1080 120p
    - Similar as above except with different shutter speed, video resolution and ISO and WB from a file named “1920x1080 120p"
3. Return to photo settings
    - Check to see if the video resolution is set to UHD or HD and save the ISO and WB setting into files “3840x2160 24p” or “1920x1080 120p” respectfully
    - Restore the shutter speed, aperture, ISO and WB settings from file “photo” on the SD card.

I thinking this program would speed up my process of switching between photos and video and could even include things like different picture profiles for each resolution.

What does everyone else think? Is this possible to do using the st and prefman commands and is it even worth doing or is this not going to be useful to anyone but me?

What would happen if you want to suddenly multiple photos in a row? You would have to remember it hit the specific button combo sequence before you wanted to take the photo or be forced to press the shutter twice every time you want to take a photo. 

[SMGJohn]

5 hours ago, MountneerMan said:

I just got back from a trip to Spain and while there I found myself taking a lot of photos (more than usual) and switching back and forth between photos and videos became really annoying and got me thinking.

Is it possible to write a program like focus stacking one that when you push a combination of buttons it pulls up a menu with the following items that would perform the following tasks?

1. 3840x2160 24p
    - Record the current Shutter speed, aperture, ISO and WB into a file named “photo” on the SD card
    - Set the video resolution to 3840x2160 24p
    - Set the shutter speed to 1/50
    - Set the ISO and WB to values that are stored in a file named “3840x2160 24p” on the SD card
    - Enter into video stby mode
2. 1920x1080 120p
    - Similar as above except with different shutter speed, video resolution and ISO and WB from a file named “1920x1080 120p"
3. Return to photo settings
    - Check to see if the video resolution is set to UHD or HD and save the ISO and WB setting into files “3840x2160 24p” or “1920x1080 120p” respectfully
    - Restore the shutter speed, aperture, ISO and WB settings from file “photo” on the SD card.

I thinking this program would speed up my process of switching between photos and video and could even include things like different picture profiles for each resolution.

What does everyone else think? Is this possible to do using the st and prefman commands and is it even worth doing or is this not going to be useful to anyone but me?

Technically what you want already exists except it does not save video mode settings which is exactly what you want, it only saves the settings for photo mode.

Custom mode on NX1, same for NX500: http://www.samsung.com/ca/support/skp/faq/1078522

[MountneerMan]

39 minutes ago, Geoff CB said:

What would happen if you want to suddenly multiple photos in a row? You would have to remember it hit the specific button combo sequence before you wanted to take the photo or be forced to press the shutter twice every time you want to take a photo. 

I do not understand what you mean. The issue you are describing exists with or without this proposed program. If you are in video stby and want to take a photo, you have to half press the shutter to exit video stby then press it again to take a photo.

I was not thinking that this program would lock you into video stby mode if that is what you are thinking.

Their are two things I am trying to help with.

1. If I am recording a video and want to take a picture I have to change the shutter speed to something more realistic for a photo like 1/100 then set my aperture to suit then possibly change the ISO as well. Similar problem but in reverse for going from photo to video.
2. Also quite often I find myself filming something and then suddenly want to quickly change to 120p to capture something in slow motion and right now I have to go into the menu to change the resolution then change the shutter speed, aperture and ISO to suit witch is quite time consuming.

Actually I was just thinking about it and you could instead of storing all the values in files on the SD card and retrieving them you could have the program check the current f-stop, shutter speed and ISO and then calculate the appropriate f-stop and ISO to have the same exposure but with the shutter speed set to 1/50.

13 minutes ago, SMGJohn said:

Technically what you want already exists except it does not save video mode settings which is exactly what you want, it only saves the settings for photo mode.

Custom mode on NX1, same for NX500: http://www.samsung.com/ca/support/skp/faq/1078522

Agreed, My original preference would be to be able to save the video resolution and PP in the custom mode settings but from what I understand of the hacks up to this point there is no indication that is easily doable. the Program I am proposing seam to me to be relatively straight forward.

[Marco Tecno]

Mountneer, I asked for such a shortcut some weeks ago. I'd like to be able to access thes evideo modes at the press of a button:

A) 1080-120-1/250-ntsc-no dis

B) Uhd-25-1/50-pal-dis

[EOS_Lurker]

4 hours ago, sidi said:

Any idea as to why NX500's limit for 4K and FHD 50/60 still stands even though this topic would suggest the camera doesn't overheat?

My semi-educated guess is it's plain old product market segmentation.  I.e. if the NX500 has capabilities similar to the NX1, why would customers purchase the much more expensive NX1?

AFAIK Samsung uses not only the same image sensor but apparently the same processor & ASIC/FPGA SoC chip in both cameras.  Admittedly there is conflicting info on whether this is the case or not, my guess the NX1 just gets a heatsink - whether it's really needed or not is a good question. But it's somewhat likely that the instruction sets for both the ARM core and the FPGA instructions are the same.  That's why I advocated trying to run NX1 binaries on the NX500.

I also suggested someone try using tizen's kexec command to get the camera to reboot from a bootable image on the SD card - 'if' workable it would provide an easy & safe path to firmware hacking, including getting NX1 features working on the NX500 and a path for diving into the real secret sauce - the code running in the FPGA.  Assuming it's not actually an ASIC, that is - there are good engineering reasons for and against both ASIC and FPGA designs or a mix of both.  My money is on same chip & using FPGA because it's cheaper and more flexible for Samsung as long as they can keep things relatively power-efficient.

I wish I had time to dive in but I'm facing a series software contract delivery deadlines and like to see my kids every so often.  All I can do is make suggestions for the next few months.  Hopefully Chant or one of the other l33ts will come up with a miracle.  But there's a bit difference between dumping binaries looking for ascii blocks, reading the service manual to 'discover' hidden dev menus to change peripheral parameters and really cracking this hardware open for new hacks.

[MountneerMan]

1 hour ago, Marco Tecno said:

Mountneer, I asked for such a shortcut some weeks ago. I'd like to be able to access thes evideo modes at the press of a button:

A) 1080-120-1/250-ntsc-no dis

B) Uhd-25-1/50-pal-dis

Wouldn't it also be sweet if it would also adjusted the ISO and aperture to keep the same exposure after setting the shutter speed to 1/250 or 1/50?

In terms of the whole "Return to photo" option I mentioned above, I could do without and after thinking about it i don't really think I would use it that much.

[Marco Tecno]

34 minutes ago, MountneerMan said:

Wouldn't it also be sweet if it would also adjusted the ISO and aperture to keep the same exposure after setting the shutter speed to 1/250 or 1/50?

In terms of the whole "Return to photo" option I mentioned above, I could do without and after thinking about it i don't really think I would use it that much.

I use to set the iso manually, but that's quite easy to calculate if you want the equivalence. I think the basic 'shortcuts' should be the ones I mentioned, allowing to swap from 1080@120 to 4k@25, which I use in different situations and for different needs.

[vaga]

What about a custom button (either a physical one or one always on screen) that just brings up the resolution and frame rate menu?

[Marco Tecno]

Vaga, not enough. I need to switch from pal to ntsc and turn dis off to enable 120 (while I want it on for 4k).

[AaronL]

DIS could automatically be switched off when changing to 120fps