Canon 1DX II - Video Camera Perspective - Mini interview on the missing details

[independent]

You can easily rig a DSLR for your shoulder, but you can't make an Arri or shoulder cam the size of a dslr. There will almost always be this tension...bigger cameras will be   better and more expensive. Smaller cameras will come with some technical limitations but be cheaper and more flexible. These arguments have been around since the 5DII came out. 

[Guest Ebrahim Saadawi]

Just now, mikegt said:

 to record video with hand-held for long periods of time since you can't brace it against your body; you have hold it some distance away to be able to see the screen.
 

That applies to any non-shoulder mounted camera and any camera that has a screen. A C300, 1DC, A7s, FS5, 5D, NX1 We hold them and shoot.

We've been doing it for years.

And most of us when want to film for hours put a shoulder rig/tripod to that Epic/1DC/GH4 or use a shoulder-mounted cmera (amira/pmw-s). It's just a strange argument you're making against shooting handheld. I don't get it. 

Just now, mikegt said:

And you are close to the price of a FS7, and even with no add-ons the 1DX II costs more than a FS5.
 

That's because the 1DXII/1DC does things the fs5/fs7 cannot touch, or else it would never sell a unit.

Two different devices for different users.

And the 1DC has a better 24p 4K image than fs5, not to mention the reportedly superior 1DXII.

Just now, mikegt said:

If you want to shoot video with a DLSR form factor their are better choices out there - the most obvious being the Sony A7S2. 
 

No it's not a 'better' choice, period. The 1DXII/1DC can do things the a7sii cannot touch, and the a7sii has some advantages too. Two different classes of camera and each has users. 

Just now, mikegt said:

And no, I do not work for Sony.
 

I know.

I'd be really surprised if you worked in any camera-making or using, not to mention such a high-end company like Sony Co. 

 

You seem to be intrigued by the 1DXII and I advice you make a clear pros/cons list that's tailored for your needs to decide whether you want a 1DXII vs another model.

[Shield3]

My remaining questions regarding the 1dX II:

In live view mode - 16fps - apparently it locks focus on the first shot.  What if I scaled that down to a slower framerate; will it then continuously AF in live view mode for stills?

What is the max video framerate on CF cards?  Can I do 1080p120?

Is there a s35 mode like the 1dc?  Or even a 1.6x crop mode?

Live view - object tracking or just face tracking?  I'd love to shoot video of my son playing travel baseball, but his face isn't always available.  Thoughts?

[mikegt]

11 hours ago, Ebrahim Saadawi said:

That's because the 1DXII/1DC does things the fs5/fs7 cannot touch, or else it would never sell a unit.
The 1DXII/1DC can do things the a7sii cannot touch

 

For video, what exactly can the 1DXII / 1DC do that a FS5, FS7 or A7SII can't do ??

We certainly know about the stuff the 1DXII can't do:  No focus peaking, no zebras, no articulated screen, no 4K HDMI out, no built-in WiFI, no modern codecs, no raw video and a viewfinder that doesn't work when recording video.  And it costs double what you would pay for the full-frame A7SII, and six times or more what you would pay for a 4K capable cropped sensor camera that has the video features Canon chose to leave out of the 1DXII.

> I'd be really surprised if you worked in any camera-making or using  

What a stupid thing to say. You must be a hardcore Canon fan to be this angry at someone who dares to question how wonderful the 1DXII really is.  For the record, I'm not famous or anything but I have worked in Hollywood as a camera assistant and visual effects technician on productions for Disney and Paramount that have been seen by millions.  Have you even visited the place?  I own two Canon DSLRs, one m43 4K camera, a Canon HD camcorder, Ricoh HD actioncam, plus numerous older DV and 35mm cameras and even a few antique Super 8 models such as the famous Nizo S 800.  I could certainly afford to buy a 1DXII but I never will, as I said previously appears to be great for stills but is clearly over-priced and under-featured as a video camera.

> Germy1979 said:   Lol.  These threads always turn into a Skip Bayless/Stephen Smith pissing contest by page 3.

You are right. I've said what I had to say, so I'm done with this thread.

[Mattias Burling]

19 minutes ago, mikegt said:

 

You are right. I've said what I had to say, so I'm done with this thread.

Now there is the mark of a troll. Not accept that people have different opinions, ask questions but not stick around for the answers.

[mikegt]

1 hour ago, Mattias Burling said:

Now there is the mark of a troll. Not accept that people have different opinions, ask questions but not stick around for the answers.

I stuck around for three pages worth, so your statement is a lie.  But you already know that.

As long as I'm still here, would it be too much to ask you to make an intelligent response to the points I raised regarding the 1DXII:

No focus peaking, no zebras, no articulated screen, no 4K HDMI out, no built-in WiFI, no modern codecs, no raw video and a viewfinder that doesn't work when recording video.  And it costs double what you would pay for the full-frame A7SII, and six times or more what you would pay for a 4K capable cropped sensor camera that has the video features Canon chose to leave out of the 1DXII.

[Mattias Burling]

50 minutes ago, mikegt said:

I stuck around for three pages worth, so your statement is a lie.  But you already know that.

As long as I'm still here, would it be too much to ask you to make an intelligent response to the points I raised regarding the 1DXII:

No focus peaking, no zebras, no articulated screen, no 4K HDMI out, no built-in WiFI, no modern codecs, no raw video and a viewfinder that doesn't work when recording video.  And it costs double what you would pay for the full-frame A7SII, and six times or more what you would pay for a 4K capable cropped sensor camera that has the video features Canon chose to leave out of the 1DXII.

Now I know you are a troll. Not gonna waist my time. If you can't see the difference in the cameras, fine. Buy the one you want.

[Oliver Daniel]

46 minutes ago, mikegt said:

I stuck around for three pages worth, so your statement is a lie.  But you already know that.

As long as I'm still here, would it be too much to ask you to make an intelligent response to the points I raised regarding the 1DXII:

No focus peaking, no zebras, no articulated screen, no 4K HDMI out, no built-in WiFI, no modern codecs, no raw video and a viewfinder that doesn't work when recording video.  And it costs double what you would pay for the full-frame A7SII, and six times or more what you would pay for a 4K capable cropped sensor camera that has the video features Canon chose to leave out of the 1DXII.

The 1DX II is a stills camera for stills shooters. That's not to say you can make something amazing with the video features.

Those who need peaking and zebras should buy a proper video camera, or if needs be put a 5" monitor on the hotshoe. There's no wrong way. Whatever works. 

[mikegt]

56 minutes ago, Mattias Burling said:

Now I know you are a troll. Not gonna waist my time. If you can't see the difference in the cameras, fine. Buy the one you want.

As I thought, you don't have an intelligent response.

55 minutes ago, Oliver Daniel said:

The 1DX II is a stills camera for stills shooters. That's not to say you can make something amazing with the video features.

Those who need peaking and zebras should buy a proper video camera, or if needs be put a 5" monitor on the hotshoe. There's no wrong way. Whatever works. 

Thank-you, this is exactly the point I've been trying to make here all along,  The 1DXII does look to be a fine stills camera, as I've been saying.  I totally agree that someone who needs a *proper* video camera should look elsewhere.

As the owner of four Canon cameras (two DSLRS, one HD camcorder and also one of the tiny IXUS models) I think it's a bit shameful that in early 2016 we can buy for around $1,000 interchangeable lens cameras from Sony and Panasonic that record 4K video, but are being asked to pay a minimum of $6,000 for the same thing from Canon - with less video features than the other manufacturers offer on their $1,000 models !  I know I will get a lot of angry responses from Canon fans for daring to say this, but it is the truth.

[Guest Ebrahim Saadawi]

Just now, Shield3 said:

What is the max video framerate on CF cards?  Can I do 1080p120?

Is there a s35 mode like the 1dc?  Or even a 1.6x crop mode?

Live view - object tracking or just face tracking?  I'd love to shoot video of my son playing travel baseball, but his face isn't always available.  Thoughts?

1 -With UDMA 7 high speed Compact Flash cards you can record 4K up to 30p (29.97p) and 1080p up to 120p (NTSC). To record 4K video at 60p only CFast 2.0 Cards can be used. 

2 -There's no s35 HD crop mode as on the 1DC. All HD modes are FF (incl. 119.8p) and 4K mode is a 1:1 crop of the sensor (approx. APS-H sized area)

3 -Both inanimate object and face tracking are available. For the face-detection & tracking the 1DXII uses a new system that can identify body shapes and calculate face position, therefore can track human faces even when facial features are not visible in the frame (or rotated). For object tracking the new sensor allows colour identification on top of regular contrast detection. You can choose the object to be tracked by simply touching it or using the 4-way joystick controller. 

[Germy1979]

Gentlemen:).  I've been out of the loop for a while, but this camera just seems bulletproof.  I like Canon color and the MK2 will always hold a sweet spot.  I'm also shooting stills like a madman.  I like C-Log as well however, and while this isn't a deal breaker - I'm curious about loading a profile like Cinestyle vs. it's problems with banding, etc.. To my knowledge C-Log is implemented at phase one within the strengths of that particular sensor?  (Not just a standard flat profile canon loads in all of its C line).  Regardless, there's always prolost??!    

[hmcindie]

On 6.2.2016 at 0:17 PM, mikegt said:

 

For video, what exactly can the 1DXII / 1DC do that a FS5, FS7 or A7SII can't do ??

Well - for starters - a better image than any of those cams, except probably dynamic range. If you like to pixel peep, I guarantee you will like the image of the 1dx II more than those other cams.

The FS5 has that brittle 8bit image with artifacts and Sony colors, the FS7 is a great cam but it's usability is noticeably worse than the 1dx II. Two weeks ago I shot with the FS7 and the 5dmarkIII as a backup b-cam. Guess which was easier and faster to use? Yup, the 5d with ML. Funny. Though everything else was better on the FS7 but even it is not perfect. It's an old school wonky camera still with those effing 3 switches for gain but with a great image.

Plus the stills. You like taking stills while you shoot? From the same angle as the main shot? During a shoot? I do. Good luck taking stills with the FS7. Even the a7s II can't take stills the way a Canon can and during movie shooting.

This is just off the top of my head.

But why are you mixing and matching these comparisons like a lunatic? The FS5, FS7 and the A7s II are completely different cams. The FS7 does things the A7s ii doesn't. Why are you comparing one cam to several? It seems you just have an axe to grind with Canon which is cool and modern I guess. If I go through your profile messages, they are the all the same subject. Canon this, Canon that. You haven't talked about anything else. Weird.

Like do you even shoot bro?

[mikegt]

15 minutes ago, hmcindie said:

It seems you just have an axe to grind with Canon which is cool and modern I guess.

I will do axe grinding on anything that appears to be over-priced and under-spec'ed.  Speaking of motivations, you do seem to be intensely trying to sell us on the 1DXII; I have to ask, do you work for or get compensated by Canon or any of its affiliates ?

15 minutes ago, hmcindie said:

If I go through your profile messages, they are the all the same subject. Canon this, Canon that. You haven't talked about anything else. Weird.

That is a false statement. I've posted a lot of stuff on Nikon, Panasonic and other cameras lately.  You on the other hand have been trying to sell the 1DXII like it was the Holy Grail.  Very weird.

[Oliver Daniel]

I don't know why people are arguing over cameras.

They are only cameras after all, with different purposes for different situations and different people.

1DX II - seems like a great package for people who do BOTH serious photography and video.

[Guest Ebrahim Saadawi]

On 2/6/2016 at 6:17 PM, mikegt said:

What exactly can the 1DXII / 1DC do that a FS5, FS7 or A7SII can't do ??

I didn't want to answer than question because then I would also need to say the FS7 list of advantages over the 1DXII, or else I'd be understood as saying the 1DXII is 'better'. 

With knowing that I mean none is better, if you really want to acually know why would people buy it over the FS7:

 

1 - First and probably most important element is the body sealing against elements. Users can take the 1DC out in the rain but simply can't take the fs7 or c300 for that matter. And that's rain, the 1DXII body will go under freezing temperature, besides volcanoes, buried in dust & mud, left taking a timelapse in a hurricane, take a two story fall and shoot. It's that high of a build quality and for getting these features Canon had to leave three FS7 features they could implement: XF-AVC and internal WIFI/NFC and articulating screen. In that model for certain shooters it's made or these uses, build quality cannot be compromised one bit. 

2 - Second most important reason why we'd buy it over the FS7/C100 is of course stills capability. It's the highest-end/fastest stills camera in the world with enormous AF lens line-up/speed lights/raw/revolutionary AF system/OVF/20mp/mechanical shutter (not going to list all the stills abilities it has over the FS7! So it's a hybrid professional stills and video camera. BIG reason to buy over an FS7. 

3 -Third most important element is SIZE and WEIGHT of the camera which makes it a choice for shots the FS7 can't achieve. Either because of physical size restriction or fear element shooting in places that prohibit large shoulder cameras. 

4 -Larger sensor size. APS-H vs APS-C in 4K and Full Frame in HD. 

5 -Autofocus. This alone could drive the a huge number of users to buy the 1DXII over the FS7/C100. It's the only pro-grade fully working video AF system that can replace a focus puller on an FS7 shoot tracking and actor. Dual pixel AF is a revolutionary technology that uses 16 million AF points vs 400 max on any other camera available. 

6 -Better low-light performance by a good margin. 1DC is better than FS7/700/5 and the 1DXII is 1+ stop better at high ISOs. Plus no native 2000 ISO, you can go as low as 100 with the Canon sensor instead of employing filters.

7 -Simply better colours, for most DPs/colourists anyway the 1DC 500mbps 4K image gives a better image and colour tones than the FS700/FS5/FS7 in a much shorter grading time. 

8 -Much much much better menu systems and much faster control over settings. 

9 -Native use of EF lenses with ZERO glitches/turn-offs including a new percise distortion correction for all Canon lenses and CA/Shading correction plus AF of course. 

10 -6K timelapse recording ability. A better camra or timelapse as it does it in 6K 14bit raw and the fact it can be left in the open under any conditions shooting TL stills for a whole day without swapping a battery. A much much better TL machine.

11 -2 thousand US dollars less? 3000-4000K with full battery/sdiunit etc. It's a cheaper system and suitable for cheaper projects.

Eleven 100% sound reasons and more.

 

What the FS7 has over it? ALOT.

I hope you ow understand why were excited and talking about the 1DXII.
 

 

[mikegt]

9 hours ago, gingercat said:

Indeed! Quite funny how some people become so indignant about others liking a camera that doesn't fit their idea of a good spec sheet.  

To be accurate, the issue is it doesn't fit the idea of a camera optimized for recording video. To reiterate: No focus peaking, no zebras, no articulated screen, no 4K HDMI out, no built-in WiFI, no modern codecs, no raw video and a viewfinder that doesn't work when recording video.  The price is perhaps the biggest issue.  For $6K you can get a lot more camera as far as video features go from other makers.  For stills, I think the 1DXII looks like a great camera.

Finally, I can't speak for everyone of course but I know that a lot of Canon fans (I am one of them) have been waiting for a 4K capable camera from Canon that is in the same ballpark price-wise as offerings from Sony, Panasonic, BlackMagic, etc.  If the $6,000 IDXII is going to be Canon's only answer to that need, that is really disappointing.  If you don't like me daring to say that then please don't read my posts.

If you like the 1DXII at the price it costs and the features it offers then buy one.

If Canon ever releases a 4K camera that matches or exceeds what you can get from other makers priced in the same ballpark as what the competing models cost I will be the first one to praise them for it.

[mikegt]

5 hours ago, Ebrahim Saadawi said:

And that's rain, the 1DXII body will go under freezing temperature, besides volcanoes, buried in dust & mud, left taking a timelapse in a hurricane, take a two story fall and shoot.

I looked up Canon's specs on the 1DXII body.  Canon says it is "weather resistant" but not weather-sealed. They don't say it is compliant with any of the common industrial MIL-STD ratings used to test ruggedized equipment.  In fact, they don't claim that the 1DXII can or is designed to survive drops of any kind, or full immersion in water.

Also, Canon says the operating temperature is only between 32 to 113°F.  So it will not work in freezing temperatures or near volcanoes.

I'm sure the 1DXII is more rugged than the average consumer camera.  But saying you can safely drop it off a building or use it in extreme temperatures is a bit of a stretch.

[Shield3]

On February 6, 2016 at 10:41 AM, Ebrahim Saadawi said:

1 -With UDMA 7 high speed Compact Flash cards you can record 4K up to 30p (29.97p) and 1080p up to 120p (NTSC). To record 4K video at 60p only CFast 2.0 Cards can be used. 

2 -There's no s35 HD crop mode as on the 1DC. All HD modes are FF (incl. 119.8p) and 4K mode is a 1:1 crop of the sensor (approx. APS-H sized area)

3 -Both inanimate object and face tracking are available. For the face-detection & tracking the 1DXII uses a new system that can identify body shapes and calculate face position, therefore can track human faces even when facial features are not visible in the frame (or rotated). For object tracking the new sensor allows colour identification on top of regular contrast detection. You can choose the object to be tracked by simply touching it or using the 4-way joystick controller. 

Thanks.  I am saving up already.  I shoot 50/50 stills and video so it will be perfect.  What it lacks I will just throw on my LCDVFE for peaking and histograms, though I doubt I'll use the former much with PDAF touch screen.  Sorry I am still just too excited - finally a camera I can own and use for years.  4k60 and 120p 1080, 14 FPS and Canon EF mount and colors.  CPS support. DSLR stealth vs a big rig.  Take my money already!

[Mattias Burling]

I wonder what people think we did before peaking and Zebra. 

When I started in TV we had no peaking, that came many years later for me. Same with a histogram, the gh3 was the first one I saw.

 

[hmcindie]

2 hours ago, Mattias Burling said:

I wonder what people think we did before peaking and Zebra. 

 

Obviously before little mirrorless cams with peaking, no one could focus on anything.