Film Piracy, Careers Ruined, Sundance, Worth it?

[IronFilm]

What is her name? & tumblr addresss?

[DPStewart]

YES.
Piracy or illegal downloading or file sharing WILL hurt - already IS hurting the film industry.

With the amount of lost revenue that we are already clearly seeing - Money losing films will now be total busts, Break-Even films will now be money losers, Mildly Profitable films will also become money losers, and the FEW films that are seriously profitable and generally make up the earnings gap in the industry for ALL THE CREW INVOLVED will now either have much of those earnings taken away, or will move all the way into NO-PROFIT territory.

Ask yourself this very simple question:
Of ALL the many types of talented tradesmen, and workers on a film crew- from the electricians to the companies who's entire business is craft services (food), to the riggers and carpenters, to the costume designers and tailors, all the way through to the actors, directors, producers and even the office staff of the film companies (even little small ones)...
HOW MANY of those people do you think will choose to, or could even AFFORD to stay in the business if the profits are cut this severely?
Hmm?
Think on that for a few minutes.
How many of you would choose to, or could afford to work a full-time job that MAYBE paid you 15 or 20 thousand dollars A YEAR?
You gonna get a mortgage for your family house with that? (No) You gonna raise and feed and clothe kids with that? (No) Get them through college with that?
That's the new reality for the majority of all those different kinds of people who's work makes up the film business.
They already ARE leaving the business for exactly these reasons.
What do you think the business will be like when even more of them leave?

What society has or does accept as any sort of privacy on the Internet is going to have to change RADICALLY or we risk losing one of the most cherished aspects of our modern life - Movies.

It's a new world out there - with new problems of types that have never been seen before. We are going to have to be prepared to change if we don't want to lose the COMPLEX things that we love...like movies.

[Nikkor]

3 hours ago, DPStewart said:

What society has or does accept as any sort of privacy on the Internet is going to have to change RADICALLY or we risk losing one of the most cherished aspects of our modern life - Movies.

I don't give a fuck about your jobs, I want to keep my privacy.

[DPStewart]

5 hours ago, araucaria said:

I don't give a fuck about your jobs, I want to keep my privacy.

Well then your chosen route will also probably ensure that most of the movie industry goes bye-bye. Leaving us (and you) with little more than superhero sequels.

If that's all you want to see out there anymore - well then, by all means, have at it.

[Nikkor]

32 minutes ago, DPStewart said:

Well then your chosen route will also probably ensure that most of the movie industry goes bye-bye. Leaving us (and you) with little more than superhero sequels.

If that's all you want to see out there anymore - well then, by all means, have at it.

I really hope so, because it would mean that you stop overwhelming the world market with your products.

[Zak Forsman]

2 hours ago, araucaria said:

I really hope so, because it would mean that you stop overwhelming the world market with your products.

haha, are you crazy? you want to sacrifice everything interesting in the cinema world for huge, safe, superhero movies? because DP is right. it's the big tent pole pictures that stand to survive this. what we'll lose and are already losing are the mid-budget and low budget pictures that were positioned to tell more unique stories from more diverse points of view. If i had to choose, I'd much rather have it the other way around.

[Nikkor]

1 minute ago, Zak Forsman said:

haha, are you crazy? you want to sacrifice everything interesting in the cinema world for huge, safe, superhero movies? because DP is right. it's the big tent pole pictures that stand to survive this. what we'll lose and are already losing are the mid-budget and low budget pictures that were positioned to tell more unique stories from more diverse points of view. If i had to choose, I'd much rather have it the other way around.

I don't want to sacrifce anything, it's this guy who is saying I have to sacrifice privacy so that some people in the US can make a living making movies.

If you look at piracy websites, try to find some of those "unique stories from more diverse points of view",good luck. What you will find is all the Avengers crap.

[Zak Forsman]

27 minutes ago, araucaria said:

I don't want to sacrifce anything, it's this guy who is saying I have to sacrifice privacy so that some people in the US can make a living making movies.

If you look at piracy websites, try to find some of those "unique stories from more diverse points of view",good luck. What you will find is all the Avengers crap.

well, i think you're misinformed about that. just about everything is up there. from Tarkovsky to Dr. Who episodes, from BAFTA award nominees to B-movies. even my own movie was torrented one week before its US release from the VOD broadcast in sweden. and mine is just a $50,000 microbudget crime drama made by a crew of six on an AF100. hell, I've had to submit takedown notices to YouTube because people in Thailand and Turkey posted the entire movie on their channel.

[Nikkor]

And home many seeds did your movie have? 22? How many plays did those youtube videos have, 50?

 

If you tell someone in Turkey that he has to pay 20cts to see your movie, he will go and do something better with those 20cts, If turkish television would be interested in your film, how much would they pay you, 3000$?, the fact that it got uploaded to youtube wouldn't change the Television interest at all.

But let's add to it, have turkish, or thai television contacted you?

[Hans Punk]

 

[Zak Forsman]

around the time of the release of the movie, the total seeds for all the torrents i could find was just over 10,000. i don't know how high it got. The Turkish YouTube upload had just crossed 100,000 views when i discovered it (it had been up for more than a month). A torrent was also likely used to make bootleg Blu-rays that one of my actors found in Hong Kong.

ps - fuck you, you belittling asshole.
 

[Nikkor]

1 minute ago, Zak Forsman said:

ps - fuck you, you belittling asshole.
 

Haha, Good night, genious.

[Zak Forsman]

3 minutes ago, araucaria said:

Haha, Good night, genious.

good night, brave troll.

and it's spelled "genius", genius.

16 minutes ago, araucaria said:

 

But let's add to it, have turkish, or thai television contacted you?

The movie was distributed by paramount internationally. that included both those countries and whatever rock you just crawled back under.

[HelsinkiZim]

14 hours ago, kaylee said:

my work is kind of like the cremaster cycle, but watchable and entertaining

This is officially off topic for all but Kaylee, but-

I would love to see some of your work, do you have anything online?

One of the biggest disappointments for me is not having watched enough video art work at my time at SAIC. Their video data bank probably could be the worlds largest source of inspiration for creative video producers, period. http://www.vdb.org/

Advertising agencies know this, but not many others follow video artists as much as they should. http://www.bbc.com/culture/story/20160205-when-ads-go-too-far

I remember spending hours in the video data bank screening room (circa 1998) watching Mathew Barney, Sadie Benning, Vito Acconci, and a host of other video artists and being blown away. Although I never really fully explored the creative side of video, and went into corporate and events (weddings), it really was a exciting time in my life making video art and analysing pieces with my peers.

The last artist I remember going mainstream was Bill Viola. I went to his exhibit and it was a whole world devoted to his weird and wonderful snippets, all projected onto walls, canvases, cloth and floors. I would love to experience something like that again. Are their other artists I should look into that are currently doing interesting work besides yourself?

Are there any forums or communities where video artists commune online? if so could you send me some links?

 

[kaylee]

1 hour ago, Zak Forsman said:

and it's spelled "genius", genius.

omg ?

1 hour ago, Zak Forsman said:

The movie was distributed by paramount internationally. that included both those countries and whatever rock you just crawled back under.

 

> seriously tho, Zak is one of the most GENEROUS filmmakers on all of the internets, and his insight is exceptionally valuable because of how goddam talented he is

i WISH i had a team like Zak does. invaluable. i would feel like "this movie [im making] is gonna be amazing we're gonna make a lot of money" instead of "?????!!!!"

lastly, purely in terms of business models, Down and Dangerous is a fantastically educational case study, thanks to the fact that Zak has graciously shared so much information about his process. the trailer itself is so professional it transcends any perception of low budget filmmaking. if i saw the trailer for D&D on television during a commercial break on fox in 2016 it would never occur to me that it didnt belong there. clearly paramount pictures feels the same way

so, fyi: Zak Forsman isnt some jabroni, hes an awesome dude*. thanks for the inspiration, Zak

*and ruggedly handsome i might add

[Zak Forsman]

kaylee is officially my favorite person.

[kaylee]

wow kewlll!!!!

27 minutes ago, HelsinkiZim said:

I would love to see some of your work, do you have anything online?

its coming this year i swear. ill send u a link 

27 minutes ago, HelsinkiZim said:

One of the biggest disappointments for me is not having watched enough video art work at my time at SAIC. Their video data bank probably could be the worlds largest source of inspiration for creative video producers, period. http://www.vdb.org/

great link, ive been there before but havent spent enough time. this is going in my queue 

27 minutes ago, HelsinkiZim said:

Advertising agencies know this, but not many others follow video artists as much as they should. http://www.bbc.com/culture/story/20160205-when-ads-go-too-far

lolol ???????

so true

and the ppl who lift stuff from fine art usually look like geniuses to their peers because no one knows the source material

27 minutes ago, HelsinkiZim said:

I remember spending hours in the video data bank screening room (circa 1998) watching Mathew Barney, Sadie Benning, Vito Acconci, and a host of other video artists

hellz yeah 

for people who have never seen stuff like this before, you should definitely check it out, as filmmakers it might broaden your horizons, in a good way~! the cremaster cycle is kinda like taking dmt in relation to filmmaking (only it lasts way, waaay longer lol)

the thing that amazes me the most about contemporary artists is how unique each respective practice is  

27 minutes ago, HelsinkiZim said:

The last artist I remember going mainstream was Bill Viola.

i like bill a lot.

on a personal level, ive been disappointed in the relative reluctance of collectors to embrace video, as they do other media.

i hate to say it, but rich old [white] people want a jeff koons sculpture in their backyard. when it comes to satisfying that need.... ::sigh:: even i have to give jeff credit

27 minutes ago, HelsinkiZim said:

Are their other artists I should look into that are currently doing interesting work besides yourself?

Are there any forums or communities where video artists commune online? if so could you send me some links?

i am seriously a terrible resource for this its kind of embarrassing. the truth is, i havent been paying too much attention to the fine art world for the last 5 years or so, ive been learning everything i can about dealing with hollywood and commercial filmmaking

in general, fine artists are terrible at being a community. we tend to not get along well with each other, and we spend a lot of time alone. tbh its very competitive

when i first got into filmmaking i breathed a sigh of relief... its a much more welcoming environment believe it or not. in filmmaking theres this idea of a team, and we all need each other, no one does this stuff alone~!

graduate film students all help each other, while graduate fine art students all hate each other lol

[tugela]

On ‎2‎/‎12‎/‎2016 at 2:11 AM, sanveer said:

 

Stricter Screening at Film Festivals. I have seen copies made by judges (they have strange watermarks still left on them).

Piracy happens IMHO because:

1. There is not enough strict checking of viewers (mobile phones, along with all other devices should be banned during screenings. People can deposit them and take them back after the screenings). 
2. Watermaking should be made compulsory for all Judging Copies (not for the public screenings at festivals).
3. Films are over-priced. People want an excuse to break the law. Over-charging by distributors and studios gives them an excuse. That is why, one feels more sympathetic towards the smaller, far poorer Indie Filmmakers, than for multi-billion  dollar studios. Piracy is a crime against both, but the Indie Film Makers are worse hit (they may make a single or a handful films in their lifetime). Films should be priced Much Less. Like 1/2 or 1/4th the Price. People would watch a good film 2-10 times, rather than just once. And rather, than watch a bad film even once. But if you pay $2-3 for a film ticket, instead of $8-9, it would pinch you far less. I feel, once would watch a good film priced at $2-3 times, and that could help separate the bad from the good (films). 
4. Film Copyright should have a shelf-life. Making them outside Public Domain for Perpetuity is Monetary terrorism. Creators die long before the companies have stopped milking the projects. 


I want to add, that very often it is Difficult to get a film DVD or something else (now that iTunes is there, I am guessing it isn't really an issue) to watch every film one wants. I know a director who asked one of the studios for a DVD of a film they made in the 70s (or was it 60s), which only hit theaters, and there were no VHS or DVD versions of the same. But he is influential, and most of us have to content oursleves with iTunes an dother channels, if they stack certain films. I guess. 

 

Most of the ticket price you pay at a movie is for overhead. Relatively little is going back to the producers in the form of revenue.

[tugela]

17 hours ago, kaylee said:

thank you for your thoughts, thats very insightful commentary, since that is essentially exactly what im doing

my work is kind of like the cremaster cycle, but watchable and entertaining

theres a huge emphasis on important live events that drive my story... and that content will be available online for free

and theres all kinds of stuff in my art practice – from big drawings to sculptures and installations. so in theory one of my shows is gonna have all that stuff. and youre gonna be entertained by some kind of "show"

thats kind of the big idea in the abstract 

if theres one thing that never ceases to amaze me its how endless the audience seems for people willing to PAY for porn

kink.com is an example, and theyre considered p mainstream now, i mean theyre a huge company. my friend just did a scene for them not too long ago and she told me some of their numbers its insane

like, have you ever heard of myfreecams? its a site where you can watch for free or tip the performers

its an option. its the same thing if you watch it for free

however tipping allows you to be interactive and... idk people love it. i know a girl who made like $130k in 3-4 months on that site and selling her own homemade webcam videos through manyvids or a site like that. now mind you she did this by first spending several years amassing a huge audience of 100k+ tumblr followers, giving them FREE content all the time. ...but would people pay for it? especially when it was free the week before? clearly in her case the answer was YES. she paid for 4 years of college in a few months, but it was after years of audience building, and frankly spending a ton of time being interactive with her fans.  it worked like a charm, but shes p smart, thats my point: she planned all this out. thats what we can all learn from. the planning lol

but i digress

That was kind of my point.....you have to figure out how you are going to market your production within the context of all the file sharing that goes on. What has happened to the porn industry over the last decade or so is an excellent study, since they have experienced these sorts of issues for some time already, and have figured out how to live in the new paradigm. Those that didn't went out of business. That is how the world works.

[Zak Forsman]

24 minutes ago, tugela said:

Most of the ticket price you pay at a movie is for overhead. Relatively little is going back to the producers in the form of revenue.

actually, on opening weekend, most of the ticket for major and mini-major studio titles goes to the distributor. the longer a film plays, the more the cut swings in the theater's favor. This is why concessions are priced so high. The theater isn't making much on new titles so they have to make up for it in popcorn sales.