Am I the only one finding it hard to ignore the JVC LS300?

[fuzzynormal]

I'll dabbled in JVC gear since the early CCD days.  I've used 'em, made decent stuff with 'em, even liked the results a lot of times.  They've been somewhat competitive in offering IQ on par with other brands.  They're always flying under the radar, so to speak. 

But...you know how you can buy cheap vanilla ice cream at the grocery store and it's pretty decent?  You can even put some chocolate on top, maybe add a few sugar sprinkles?  Not bad.  Then, one day you decide to just try the Häagen-Dazs?  It's sort of like that.  Better ice cream is just better ice cream.  There's always a level of quality that JVC can't seem to attain or don't bother in attaining.

You can sense it when you use the gear.  It's that Robert Pirsig vibe he always talked about. 

Both vanilla ice creams are yummy, but you'd always rather have the Häagen-Dazs.  Still, sometimes, a 50cent ice cream cone is perfectly satisfying.

[Mattias Burling]

Well, Im not a fan of  Häagen-Dazs. I like my Ice Cream from Europe. Preferably Italian.
But I get your point

Still, we are just talking and assuming. I want to "know", not "guess"
(I will give them a ring first thing in the morning)

[fuzzynormal]

33 minutes ago, Mattias Burling said:

I want to "know", not "guess"

Definitely go for it.  I still have a soft spot in my heart for the KY-27 I used early on in my career.  Fully competent piece of gear, but it didn't stop me from coveting the Sony stuff.

[johnnymossville]

That carnival footage looks fantastic.    The camera is the right size, has great specs and some novel features.    

[Andrew Reid]

3 hours ago, Mattias Burling said:

Well, Im not a fan of  Häagen-Dazs. I like my Ice Cream from Europe. Preferably Italian.

Here's me thinking they were Danish or maybe German all this time... Founded in NYC. Blimey.

The ice cream analogy with JVC is spot on. They never quite make the cream of the crop.

[Mattias Burling]

19 minutes ago, Andrew Reid said:

Here's me thinking they were Danish or maybe German all this time... Founded in NYC. Blimey.

The ice cream analogy with JVC is spot on. They never quite make the cream of the crop.

He he, Häagen-Dazs is a bit of a scam. They named it so people would think they where getting some genuine Euro-Cream, but no

[TheRenaissanceMan]

On paper, it's everything we want. Mu43 mount, s35 sensor, LOG, 10-bit 4:2:2, 4K. Good at ISO 3200, usable in a pinch at 6400. There's noise, but it's monochromatic and grain-like. Colors are a little broadcast-y for my taste, but it's a good look with nice skin tones. Attractively priced, too, with all the features to make video shooting easy. 

With the newest price drops and firmware updates, there's little reason NOT to consider it. We just need someone like Mattias to get his hands on one and start the club, like that guy on DVX User did for the F35.

[Guest Ebrahim Saadawi]

Sorry to disappoint guys, but I have graded LOG footage from the LS300, and non-LOG as well. This camera really, really, really has a video look. Note the triple reallys. The image screams it. If you think the GH4 is video-like, try the LS300. 

It's very clear that the hyper-realistic colour science and limited dynamic range (lots of clipping) and the very poor roll-off and imposed digital sharpness of the image are causing this broadcast look. Image artefacting/Macroblocking in the shadows really reduce the camera's lowlight ability to max 1600ish and reduces the effective dynamic range you can work with.

It's a broadcasters' image. And it's perfect for that, for shooting stock footage, broadcast, news, youtube, shows, episodic television, the look is really high quality 4K with little artefacts and good punchy colours. 

However if you're anything trying in anyway to achieve a filmic look, an organic look, a moody look, this is one camera you'll be fighting the hell out to achieve it. I am sure it can be done to a large degree, by using lower sharpness/contrast glass to take the edge off or diffusion, and by carefully NEVER clipping a highlight, and shooting at 24p, grading with care a skill, light in a cinematic way, use s35 lenses vs m43s, etc. 

But really, why bother? if you want a film camera, an A7 series 4K camera with XLR module is a better option, a C100/C100II is a better option, the GH4 even looks more filmic and gets there easier. 

And yes, It does have quite a lot of features of a video camera in a CX00 way, but in real use, you're fighting through the menus to get to them, and even fighting to get exposure correct. 

In my opinion, for someone who wants a 4K camera with camcorder form as a must and doesn't have a budget to stretch? well it's your only option at that price point, and you WILL finally get the hand of it and own the proper equipment and expertise to make it look good. And I am surr if Mattius used one for a long bit, made piece with the ergonomics and menus and UI, made his best to get a filmlic look, he'll have a positive review. 

But if you can go another way, and you want to shoot films, narative, music, weddings, beauty, anything "filmic", go another route instead of fighting against your camera. 

It's not just bad marketing but also stupid design decisions like the menus and overal interface, the EVF and LCD, the blocky codec, that made this camera a failure. With good viral marketing it could have sold well even at that. If I were a broadcaster and need a number of Future proof UHD camcorders for the lowest price that can record a UHD image with good sound and large battery and small media, I'd get these, why haven't they cattered for that market for example? 

If I am a youtuber looking for an upgrade to my Canon DSLR (A LOT) a UHD camcorder for the lowest price with good in-camera audio and swivle LCD and sharp image, I'd go for it. The image is well beyond Youtube quality. 

[Mattias Burling]

Out of curiosity,

Lots of people mention menus. Whats there to do in a menu?

It has all the external controls old school camcorders like the hmc151 has and Ive never gone into the menus for anything on those. Thats sort of the point of camcorders.

Its why the fs5 exsist next to the a7sii and a6300. Its the bread and butter of the C-line.

[AaronChicago]

This camera looks like an evolution of the old DV cameras. Super 35 sensor and LOG is cool but the image to me seems "news program" or "reality show" esque.

[Oliver Daniel]

3 hours ago, Mattias Burling said:

Out of curiosity,

Lots of people mention menus. Whats there to do in a menu?

It has all the external controls old school camcorders like the hmc151 has and Ive never gone into the menus for anything on those. Thats sort of the point of camcorders.

Its why the fs5 exsist next to the a7sii and a6300. Its the bread and butter of the C-line.

If you've ever used an FS7, the menus make using the camera not very enjoyable. 

This particular camera has so many different settings (with your PP's) and also slow motion and 4K... If you like to change these over often during a shoot, you kinda gulp before having to change a setting. 

Can't say much on the JVC - however it really helps to have quick, fast access to all key settings which Sony doesn't provide on most of their cameras. 

[Mattias Burling]

Ahh, I wouldn't know since the only Sonys where I have been switching between Slowmo and Real Time was on the A7/7ii and FS100. And on both I could do it externally without menus.

21 minutes ago, AaronChicago said:

This camera looks like an evolution of the old DV cameras. Super 35 sensor and LOG is cool but the image to me seems "news program" or "reality show" esque.

That's what I want to find out. Since pretty much all cameras look like "news footage" imo in demo videos (sony, Panasonic, canon, etc).
Its when users start experimenting that they come alive. But since its not selling it never happens. 
Might be a "bad" camera but there is to little info to make the call imo.

[Don Kotlos]

$1000 off and a 120fps firmware update:

http://pro.jvc.com/pro/pr/2016/releases/gyls300_slomo.html

[IronFilm]

Hmmm.... this camera already had a $1k price reduction before this announcement! Does this mean it is now only $2k....  ?? :-o

 

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1096581-REG/jvc_gy_ls300_4kcam_handheld_s35mm.html

[DPStewart]

On 2/15/2016 at 1:27 AM, Ebrahim Saadawi said:

Sorry to disappoint guys, but I have graded LOG footage from the LS300, and non-LOG as well. This camera really, really, really has a video look. Note the triple reallys. The image screams it. If you think the GH4 is video-like, try the LS300. 

It's very clear that the hyper-realistic colour science and limited dynamic range (lots of clipping) and the very poor roll-off and imposed digital sharpness of the image are causing this broadcast look. Image artefacting/Macroblocking in the shadows really reduce the camera's lowlight ability to max 1600ish and reduces the effective dynamic range you can work with.

It's a broadcasters' image. And it's perfect for that, for shooting stock footage, broadcast, news, youtube, shows, episodic television, the look is really high quality 4K with little artefacts and good punchy colours. 

However if you're anything trying in anyway to achieve a filmic look, an organic look, a moody look, this is one camera you'll be fighting the hell out to achieve it. I am sure it can be done to a large degree, by using lower sharpness/contrast glass to take the edge off or diffusion, and by carefully NEVER clipping a highlight, and shooting at 24p, grading with care a skill, light in a cinematic way, use s35 lenses vs m43s, etc. 

But really, why bother? if you want a film camera, an A7 series 4K camera with XLR module is a better option, a C100/C100II is a better option, the GH4 even looks more filmic and gets there easier. 

And yes, It does have quite a lot of features of a video camera in a CX00 way, but in real use, you're fighting through the menus to get to them, and even fighting to get exposure correct. 

In my opinion, for someone who wants a 4K camera with camcorder form as a must and doesn't have a budget to stretch? well it's your only option at that price point, and you WILL finally get the hand of it and own the proper equipment and expertise to make it look good. And I am surr if Mattius used one for a long bit, made piece with the ergonomics and menus and UI, made his best to get a filmlic look, he'll have a positive review. 

But if you can go another way, and you want to shoot films, narative, music, weddings, beauty, anything "filmic", go another route instead of fighting against your camera. 

It's not just bad marketing but also stupid design decisions like the menus and overal interface, the EVF and LCD, the blocky codec, that made this camera a failure. With good viral marketing it could have sold well even at that. If I were a broadcaster and need a number of Future proof UHD camcorders for the lowest price that can record a UHD image with good sound and large battery and small media, I'd get these, why haven't they cattered for that market for example? 

If I am a youtuber looking for an upgrade to my Canon DSLR (A LOT) a UHD camcorder for the lowest price with good in-camera audio and swivle LCD and sharp image, I'd go for it. The image is well beyond Youtube quality. 

This!

Haha! Yup...it's a fantastic box full of controls that generates some ugly-ass video. The highlight knee/rolloff is terrible. Not very good DR either.

They flopped in the Image Quality area in a year when many makers were advancing Image Quality to levels almost unheard of before.

Sorry Charlie.
 

[Don Kotlos]

1 hour ago, IronFilm said:

Hmmm.... this camera already had a $1k price reduction before this announcement! Does this mean it is now only $2k....  ?? :-o

 

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1096581-REG/jvc_gy_ls300_4kcam_handheld_s35mm.html

I wonder about that too.

[tomsemiterrific]

You can get some really great image results with the JVC LS300. It's sharp and works great with a variety of lenses, and is feature rich. But somethings are to be noted. Electronics are not consistent regarding lenses. There is no way to predict which canon lenses will work, and my LS300 never worked with my best lens, my Sigma 1.8 zoom lens. It was crazy. 

The other issues are no internal stabilization---so the cam is only good tethered to a tripod. The LCD is just so-so, and the EVF is all but totally useless--you might as well not have one--it is terrible and tiny. To effectively use it you must have an external monitor at all times.

If you're down will all those issues then you just might have your camera, because there's a lot to love here, including the price. 

my 2¢

[Mattias Burling]

Lens electronics and stabilization doesnt matter to me. The screen sounds annoying.

How bad is it in your opinion to the bmpcc screen (which I think works just fine)?

[Mattias Burling]

Its happening!
JVC is sending me one

[mercer]

A loaner?