Dave Maze Posted March 11, 2016 Share Posted March 11, 2016 1 minute ago, Ed David said: Right on. Also in terms of dynamic range - that's also interpretive - one person's level of acceptable noise is another person's not acceptable level. Like the whole Red Dragon fiasco. They showed a chart before it came out that had the camera I think at 16 or 17 stops of dynamic range. Alexa is around 14 stops. And then when people got it, I think they found it was more like 12 or 13. But yes, I think the DB16 to me, has more pleasing skintones than the Red Dragon stuff. I find the dragon stuff to have a BEIGE look like that video Phil Holland shot. I find that when I grade. With that said, like Mattius, I much more prefer the look of the red one mx's skintones. But like Mattius, I own a bunch of cameras, and once I own them, I get bored of their image and crave another camera. Then I get that camera and miss the older one and buy the older one. Then I do tests, and go, "opps." and then have to sell the older one. Or now I just, when I have that urge, I rent. Or just learn to love the flaws and all of my current camera. Man, I need therapy We are too similar dude. Except my wife keeps me in line and I can't spend the money :P haha! Ed_David 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed_David Posted March 11, 2016 Author Share Posted March 11, 2016 Mattias, Sorry I misspelled your name. Can you post the stills as LOG or flat. I think the DB16 stuff has a look already burned into it. if you don't have the time, no worries. thanks for doing this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Maze Posted March 11, 2016 Share Posted March 11, 2016 Heres the S%$& that bothers me though. Its the fact that I talk to my colleagues about Blackmagic or Digital Bolex (or now thanks to Ed the F35) and they all just look at me with a confused look on their faces and just tell me to shoot on a C100 or a7s and just call it a day. I don't know why but it just drives me insane if Im not constantly seeking after the best image to my eyes and I just can't settle on anything. Its an annoying problem for sure. Its also annoying when I get hired to shoot with other people who are all canon and Im the only one with black magic and I have to explain to the editor how to color it properly... Liam 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Members Mattias Burling Posted March 11, 2016 Super Members Share Posted March 11, 2016 23 minutes ago, Ed David said: Mattias, Sorry I misspelled your name. Can you post the stills as LOG or flat. I think the DB16 stuff has a look already burned into it. if you don't have the time, no worries. thanks for doing this There is no look burned. They are RAW DNGs. Just change them to BMD in Resolve and they go flat. They are just numbers at this point. Ed_David 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed_David Posted March 11, 2016 Author Share Posted March 11, 2016 59 minutes ago, DaveAltizer said: Heres the S%$& that bothers me though. Its the fact that I talk to my colleagues about Blackmagic or Digital Bolex (or now thanks to Ed the F35) and they all just look at me with a confused look on their faces and just tell me to shoot on a C100 or a7s and just call it a day. I don't know why but it just drives me insane if Im not constantly seeking after the best image to my eyes and I just can't settle on anything. Its an annoying problem for sure. Its also annoying when I get hired to shoot with other people who are all canon and Im the only one with black magic and I have to explain to the editor how to color it properly... That's how it is. The discerning eye can see the difference. There is a whole world of people who can tell the difference between everything. Check out the CML forums Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed_David Posted March 11, 2016 Author Share Posted March 11, 2016 Wow yes Mattias and all - it does look much better the DB16 vs the BMPC - the skin has more red pigments in it - it has more inherent resolution so the image pops out more - looks more three-dimensional. The BMPC may be a little more out of focus, but hey this is nice. Also the falloff is greater - this maybe the lens though - but yes - much better image. Too bad it's a 200 ASA camera. That's the problem with CCD - very hard to get more sensitivity in the image. So you shot both at 200 ASA? But yes, it feels really nice. And that's the catch with this beautiful image - beautiful color and motion, but noise problems - like this video which looks gorgeous but is struggling it seems with noise in its shadows that is causing vimeo to go a little nuts. Also some intense digital sharpening. Anyway, there's always a catch, no one camera is ever perfect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adebowale Posted March 12, 2016 Share Posted March 12, 2016 Kind of fell in love with this guys BMPCC footage and just wanted to post one. I almost dont believe he shot it with the pocket Axel, Cinegain, Ed_David and 3 others 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Members Mattias Burling Posted March 12, 2016 Super Members Share Posted March 12, 2016 6 hours ago, Ed David said: So you shot both at 200 ASA? But yes, it feels really nice. Also some intense digital sharpening. Anyway, there's always a catch, no one camera is ever perfect. Cant remember, sorry. There's one thing that always bugged me about the bmpcc (which I still love, great camera). It has sharpening in its debayer where as the D16 doesnt. BTW, the cool thing about that ballerina video is that half of it is their cheap Kish lenses and half is some +$5000 cinema glass Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squig Posted March 12, 2016 Share Posted March 12, 2016 I was really enjoying that until the vimeo stream died half way through. I haven't even done any testing yet, but I'm almost certain I'm shooting my feature with the BMMCC. It IS the baby Alexa I've been looking for. I have to start shooting the crowdfunding trailer in a couple of weeks so BM better hurry TF up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BenEricson Posted March 12, 2016 Share Posted March 12, 2016 6 hours ago, Adebowale said: Kind of fell in love with this guys BMPCC footage and just wanted to post one. I almost dont believe he shot it with the pocket Looks real good. Once you have the proper setup, (Metabones/Sigma 18-35,) it's all in the grade. That really is the winning combo. The camera looks really good shallow, which is hard to do without the 18-35. I love the handheld look on wides with all that DR Another guy doing cool stuff with the Digital Bolex. I love the handheld stuff with the global shutter… You can really get that saturated caked on color look. Ed_David 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mat33 Posted March 13, 2016 Share Posted March 13, 2016 While this isn't exactly the topic of this thread, it has turned into a bit of a discussion about the D16. I just received my m4/3 D16 and shot this quick piece to test it out. Axel, Mattias Burling, Ed_David and 1 other 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Axel Posted March 13, 2016 Share Posted March 13, 2016 1 hour ago, mat33 said: While this isn't exactly the topic of this thread, it has turned into a bit of a discussion about the D16. I just received my m4/3 D16 and shot this quick piece to test it out. It's a good thing to show some DB stuff for a change. The colors look like what you'd extract from raw stills in ACR, Raw Therapee (or Lightroom? - I don't know Lightroom). Resolve seems to interpret raw differently, but people use it because it's so easy. How did you develop the raw? Ed_David 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mat33 Posted March 13, 2016 Share Posted March 13, 2016 12 hours ago, Axel said: It's a good thing to show some DB stuff for a change. The colors look like what you'd extract from raw stills in ACR, Raw Therapee (or Lightroom? - I don't know Lightroom). Resolve seems to interpret raw differently, but people use it because it's so easy. How did you develop the raw? I used Resolve 12 to develop the raw files, I haven't tried any other raw developers because as you say Resolve is very convenient. I did a very quick grade by using the BMDfilm colour space and just applied a 3514 LUT to normalise the image. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pressland Posted March 13, 2016 Share Posted March 13, 2016 On 3/10/2016 at 5:02 AM, Ed David said: yes the color is really beautiful and its motion is beautiful, but I really think you could get there with the BMPCC. Do you still feel this way? I have never seen BM footage look as lush and textured as this: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed_David Posted March 13, 2016 Author Share Posted March 13, 2016 beautiful stuff Mat! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomastancredi Posted March 14, 2016 Share Posted March 14, 2016 Has anyone used or seen a d16 being used for a one-man rngun doc? Great audio option is great but I don't know what could be other drawbacks. Tempted to buy one Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Members Mattias Burling Posted March 14, 2016 Super Members Share Posted March 14, 2016 2 minutes ago, tomastancredi said: Has anyone used or seen a d16 being used for a one-man rngun doc? Great audio option is great but I don't know what could be other drawbacks. Tempted to buy one It shoots Raw only so depending on the doc it could get massive. Here is a short one. Always liked the feel of it. Liam 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mat33 Posted March 14, 2016 Share Posted March 14, 2016 The main issue is file size as Mattias mentioned, although there is a 1TB option available if you shoot longer events etc and can't stop to offload. If you are out all day, then you would want an external battery system as the internal battery lasts ~4hrs. Also there is only a 'raw view' for assessing exposure in-cam, so there is a bit of a different workflow if you are used to mirrorless/dSLR cameras. Here is an interview with Jesse Borkowski about why he used the ikonoskop A-cam dii, which has pretty similar image/workflow, for his doc. http://www.rawcinemashop.com/stories/2014/2/12/real-value-interview-with-jesse-borkowski tomastancredi 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Members Mattias Burling Posted March 14, 2016 Super Members Share Posted March 14, 2016 8 minutes ago, mat33 said: The main issue is file size as Mattias mentioned, although there is a 1TB option available if you shoot longer events etc and can't stop to offload. If you are out all day, then you would want an external battery system as the internal battery lasts ~4hrs. Also there is only a 'raw view' for assessing exposure in-cam, so there is a bit of a different workflow if you are used to mirrorless/dSLR cameras. Here is an interview with Jesse Borkowski about why he used the ikonoskop A-cam dii, which has pretty similar image/workflow, for his doc. http://www.rawcinemashop.com/stories/2014/2/12/real-value-interview-with-jesse-borkowski Yes, but you don't have to "stop" to offload. It can offload to CF cards in the background. Not a 100% fix, but at least 80% imo In the computer RawMagic does wonders. It can convert the uncompressed Raw to Lossless Compression just like in the Blackmagics. Its an extra step though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mat33 Posted March 14, 2016 Share Posted March 14, 2016 9 minutes ago, Mattias Burling said: Yes, but you don't have to "stop" to offload. It can offload to CF cards in the background. Not a 100% fix, but at least 80% imo In the computer RawMagic does wonders. It can convert the uncompressed Raw to Lossless Compression just like in the Blackmagics. Its an extra step though. Very true, the CF offload does help a lot and its nice you can use slightly slower and cheaper CF cards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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