OMENEO LUTs for Sony A7r2

[Don Kotlos]

4 hours ago, omen said:

First example - direct frame grab from S-Log3, S-Gamut3, taken into Photoshop with contrast and saturation

Second example - same frame grab with test Primer applied, nothing else.

Notice how the second image almost looks like it has been blurred due to more gradual transitions in between. Also, notice how the second image although has more saturated and "healthier" blues has reduced compression visibility due to finer transitions.  This is because the signal has been "ironed" on micro level, to fix the hue/saturation/luminosity offsets which, once enhanced in color correction, increase the visibility of compression.

Banding depends on multiple factors such as compression, bit depth and color sampling. Most critically it depends on how much of the tonalities you want to recover from an 8 bit codec. That is why less aggressive profiles will always give you less banding, no matter what the LUT is. 

Now I agree that correct interpretation of color in s-gammut is indeed critical in order to reduce the visibility of banding (which is apparent in both of the examples and just less visible in the second one). 

Since banding can also depend on the codec, if you have an external recorder that you have tested in order recomend it:

On 4/19/2016 at 11:51 AM, omen said:

That is why it is recommended on the Primers page to go with external recorders and Prores and 4:2:2 out and the issues are minimized.

It could be great to show these results as well. 

Cheers

[omen]

I'll do more analysis with A6300 I'm currently working on and with BM Video Assist. I tested boosted saturation on SLog 2 and SLog 3 and skies look better because there is no need to recover color after compression. As long as data is there I can fix the color and overall response.

[omen]

A6300 XAVC-S 1080p, S-Log 2, S-Gamut 3

Test Primer applied in Resolve, grab still > scaled in PS to 50%

Camera was set to AWB.

Significant improvement. The key was saturation added in camera prior to compression.

Skies are still not perfect, but a huge difference compared to the prior banding circus.

[Don Kotlos]

26 minutes ago, omen said:

Significant improvement. The key was saturation added in camera prior to compression.

Skies are still not perfect, but a huge difference compared to the prior banding circus.

Try another color mode, it will look even better

[omen]

Dear creative colleagues, A6300 is optimized. It took a while. 

 

With this camera I expanded the analysis to further reduce banding. Primers are now designed for Cine4 and S-Log2 gamma. The new approach was successful. S-Log2 now has dramatically reduced banding and with Cine4 it is not an issue.

 

With this approach the following requirements are necessary to allow Primers to optimize your camera:

 

Two picture profiles:

 

1) 

 

Gamma: Cine4,

Color: S-Gamut3.Cine

Saturation: 20

Black gamma:wide, level +3

Knee: mode manual, point 75%, Slope +5

 

2)

 

Gamma: S-Log2 gamma 

Color: S-Gamut3.Cine

Saturation: 25

 

I put modded Cine4 on PP1 and modded S-Log2 on PP2 for more practical shooting. Modded Cine4 will be fine for most cases and with Primers holds most of DR well, and S-Log2 is useful when you need that extra stop, such as exterior highlights shot from the interior. 

Cine4 on ISO250 gives a practical switch to PP2 to S-Log2 at ISO800 without having to compensate with f-stop. 

 

All Primers for A6300 are color neutral, each optimized for a different scene light values and feel. From lower to higher contrast. If you want higher contrast, make sure you use a dedicated Primer for that, it achieves that differently than with typical post tools. All color manipulations in post shoud be done AFTER the Primer. You can compensate the shadows and highlights, colors have to be intact for the Primers to optimize the response.

 

Few examples with medium contrast response Primer, XAVC-S, shot in 1080p: 

 

 

 

 

 

 

There are a few more examples on the Primers page. 

http://omeneo.com/primers/

 

 

 

[JeremyDulac]

@omen I just bought your a7r ii primers and they work amazingly! My one question is why you don't suggest a saturation boost on the a7r ii like you do above with the a6300? Wouldnt that help banding on the a7r ii as well? Thanks for any info you have!

[Olivier Vanaschen]

Hello!

I just bought the primers for the Sony A7s. What picture profile is optimal? I guess it's Slog2 + SGamut but what about the Knee, Sat, Matrix,... What do you recommend?

Do you have a description of the different primers? The website is lacking a lot of information but the results seem very interesting!

All the best,

Olivier

[Nrubloc]

This is according to their website...

For Sony A7R2 Primers: S-Log2 gamma, S-Gamut color base > rec.709

For Sony A7S1 Primers: S-Log2 gamma, S-Gamut color base  > rec. 709

For Sony A7S2 Primers (Cine4 gamma & SLog2):

Cine4 gamma: S-Gamut3Cine color base > rec. 709

- CAMERA SETUP: saturation: 20, black gamma: wide, level +3

S-Log2 gamma: S-Gamut3Cine color base > rec. 709

- CAMERA SETUP : saturation: 25

For Sony a6300 Primers (Cine4 gamma & SLog2): Cine4 S-Gamut3cine & S-Log2 S-Gamut3cine  > rec.709 (33x33x33 LUTs)

Required camera setup:

- Cine4 gamma with S-Gamut3.Cine color, saturation: 20, black gamma: wide, level +3, Knee:mode manual, point 75%, Slope +5

- S-Log2 gamma with S-Gamut3.Cine color, saturation: 25

--------------

Having seen some comparisons/analysis on the closeness of color exhibited in some online tests recently between the a7rii and a6300, I was surprised that the camera setup for the a6300 came in at Sat +25 as well for the S-log2. I guess the real differences in the faux A7RII S-Gamut vs S-Gamut3.Cine of the a6300 are not so subtle. 

[valery akos]

Bought'em!

[JeremyDulac]

On 10/30/2016 at 5:43 PM, Nrubloc said:

This is according to their website...

For Sony A7R2 Primers: S-Log2 gamma, S-Gamut color base > rec.709

For Sony A7S1 Primers: S-Log2 gamma, S-Gamut color base  > rec. 709

For Sony A7S2 Primers (Cine4 gamma & SLog2):

Cine4 gamma: S-Gamut3Cine color base > rec. 709

- CAMERA SETUP: saturation: 20, black gamma: wide, level +3

S-Log2 gamma: S-Gamut3Cine color base > rec. 709

- CAMERA SETUP : saturation: 25

For Sony a6300 Primers (Cine4 gamma & SLog2): Cine4 S-Gamut3cine & S-Log2 S-Gamut3cine  > rec.709 (33x33x33 LUTs)

Required camera setup:

- Cine4 gamma with S-Gamut3.Cine color, saturation: 20, black gamma: wide, level +3, Knee:mode manual, point 75%, Slope +5

- S-Log2 gamma with S-Gamut3.Cine color, saturation: 25

--------------

Having seen some comparisons/analysis on the closeness of color exhibited in some online tests recently between the a7rii and a6300, I was surprised that the camera setup for the a6300 c

On 10/30/2016 at 5:43 PM, Nrubloc said:

This is according to their website...

For Sony A7R2 Primers: S-Log2 gamma, S-Gamut color base > rec.709

For Sony A7S1 Primers: S-Log2 gamma, S-Gamut color base  > rec. 709

For Sony A7S2 Primers (Cine4 gamma & SLog2):

Cine4 gamma: S-Gamut3Cine color base > rec. 709

- CAMERA SETUP: saturation: 20, black gamma: wide, level +3

S-Log2 gamma: S-Gamut3Cine color base > rec. 709

- CAMERA SETUP : saturation: 25

For Sony a6300 Primers (Cine4 gamma & SLog2): Cine4 S-Gamut3cine & S-Log2 S-Gamut3cine  > rec.709 (33x33x33 LUTs)

Required camera setup:

- Cine4 gamma with S-Gamut3.Cine color, saturation: 20, black gamma: wide, level +3, Knee:mode manual, point 75%, Slope +5

- S-Log2 gamma with S-Gamut3.Cine color, saturation: 25

--------------

Having seen some comparisons/analysis on the closeness of color exhibited in some online tests recently between the a7rii and a6300, I was surprised that the camera setup for the a6300 came in at Sat +25 as well for the S-log2. I guess the real differences in the faux A7RII S-Gamut vs S-Gamut3.Cine of the a6300 are not so subtle. 

ame in at Sat +25 as well for the S-log2. I guess the real differences in the faux A7RII S-Gamut vs S-Gamut3.Cine of the a6300 are not so subtle. 

He said its because he created the a6300 and a7s 2 profiles after the a7r2 ones so he had improved his workflow and found the +20 saturation helps a lot for retaining color info.

[omen]

Hey guys, each of these Primers is for each sensor response and made for rec 709 monitoring/delivery. If you apply those on Cine4/S-Log2 gammas and S-Gamut/S-Gamut3.cine color spaces (depending on the model) you should get significantly improved color response. Ideally it would be S-Log3 and S-Gamut3.cine in every Sony camera but a) those are not options on all cameras and b) S-Log3 falls apart in 8 bit sampling. Its gamma curve is way too flat and it breaks up after corrected to 709 delivery standard. This is why those are designed and offered for FS7, so if you own it, or FS5, S-Log3 Primers for FS7 color response should work nicely to correct the signal while capturing the full DR available in S-Log3. It is always recommended to use Raw if possible or 10 bit Prores. XAVC-H works as well but h.264 compression is macroblock based so take caution. 

 

Olivier, each Primer is usable for certain circumstances. They start from milder and proceed to more defined and which seem as "more contrasty" but there is a lot more inside that simple contrast, to be able to stabilize the response. Each Primer will pre-determine the outcome after creative grade so make sure you choose the one which fits the shooting scenario/desired outcome the most.

 

Don't touch any other picture settings in camera apart from those suggested, everything else is optimized by Primers after sensor analysis (of many modes) and custom precise image transformation built into the Primers.

 

Cine 4 based Primers in compact cameras cover the majority of circumstances and S-Log2 when there is a need for that extra stop, like in interior shots with burning windows. S-Log2 Primers have about a stop more in highlights at the cost of risky high luminosity gradients.

 

FS7 and FS5 shooters are covered with S-Log3 and don't need to touch any picture settings. Just shoot in CineEI with S-Log3 and S-Gamut3.Cine. FS7 Primers EQX are designed for  10 bit + codecs and 41% mid grey as suggested by Sony, allowing proper exposure during monitoring and avoiding noisy blacks. 

 

In post make sure you do NOT manipulate color before Primers and DON't use auto chart matching. Primers will do a much better job and require original color response in color space they are designed for. You can compensate highs and lows and fix white point. Color work should go AFTER in the signal chain, after the Primers optimize the signal

 

Disclaimer:

Those examples on the upper part of this thread were shared when A6300 Primers were still in development. Release versions are further improved.