I think my NX1 is defective, now what?

[Andrew Reid]

4 hours ago, sandro said:

The refund is €1350 (body only) and it's in Milan right now.

That is so generous. Snatch their hand off.

The X-T2 is the only thing that comes close to the NX1 even after 2-3 years...

I prefer the NX1 over that (have both) in all respects apart from low light and 4K rolling shutter.

I am quite comfortable using the NX1 at ISO 3200 as long as I have a good exposure, fast lens, master pedestal +15 and RGB range 16-235, to prevent the blacks from crushing and losing all the shadow detail. Noise at ISO 6400 makes it a bit less usable, so my limit is usually 1600 or 3200.

But let's get real

One has to balance practicality, usability, cost, all sorts of stuff.

To get better low light without sacrificing too many features, your only choice (for 4K) is the A7S II, A7R II and 1D C. So triple the cost of a used NX1. TRIPLE!

The X-T2 is more fiddly and crops the sensor in 4K. You'd need to invest in new lenses maybe too?

A6500 could be an option but I don't enjoy using mine... ergonomics are shit and rolling shutter the worst I've ever seen.

I believe even though reliability has let you down and the freshness of new models entices you, that the trusty NX1 is truly special and should be perceived with unless you can jump to a $3000 Sony and put up with the worse ergonomics.

[MountneerMan]

18 hours ago, Andrew Reid said:

That is so generous. Snatch their hand off.

The X-T2 is the only thing that comes close to the NX1 even after 2-3 years...

I prefer the NX1 over that (have both) in all respects apart from low light and 4K rolling shutter.

I am quite comfortable using the NX1 at ISO 3200 as long as I have a good exposure, fast lens, master pedestal +15 and RGB range 16-235, to prevent the blacks from crushing and losing all the shadow detail. Noise at ISO 6400 makes it a bit less usable, so my limit is usually 1600 or 3200.

But let's get real

One has to balance practicality, usability, cost, all sorts of stuff.

To get better low light without sacrificing too many features, your only choice (for 4K) is the A7S II, A7R II and 1D C. So triple the cost of a used NX1. TRIPLE!

The X-T2 is more fiddly and crops the sensor in 4K. You'd need to invest in new lenses maybe too?

A6500 could be an option but I don't enjoy using mine... ergonomics are shit and rolling shutter the worst I've ever seen.

I believe even though reliability has let you down and the freshness of new models entices you, that the trusty NX1 is truly special and should be perceived with unless you can jump to a $3000 Sony and put up with the worse ergonomics.

Andrew,

What is your opinion of the GH5 vs. the NX1?

Sorry if you already posted your thoughts on this in another thread I do not follow all the threads on here.

[sandro]

Thank you everyone.

I think I'm going with a used NX1, still not 100% sure though.
I'm baffled cause I'm tempted with the sony a6300 but overheating thus losing shots is kinda unacceptable! Also you talk about a bad rolling shutter problem. Does the a6500 fix any problems? Like overheating and less crop? 

Also the XT20 seems tempting but I would lose 120p  I read it doesn't crop like the XT2 does but probably will have a lower quality? 

 

Also I thought a used NX1 would cost less instead on eBay it's around €800-900

[Andrew Reid]

To Sandro, the NX1 is far more enjoyable to shoot with than the A6300 and the A6500 didn't solve any of the rolling shutter issues and just papered over the overheating problems in firmware. Less crop? I assume you mean in the 4K 30p and 1080p 120fps modes... no still crops in a bit like the A6300. But in 4K 24p there's no crop (again same as before).

MountneerMan GH5 vs NX1 -

They overlap in some areas and have pros and cons, with some things I prefer on the GH5 and some things I prefer on the NX1, so here goes...

The NX1 is of course Super 35mm in terms of sensor size and the look, and GH5 needs Speed Booster to get that look. The GH5 is also double the price and Speed Booster will add to that. The advantage though is you might save money on the lenses if you already have Canon stuff. The GH5 is great for Canon lenses. The NX1 has no adapter that controls aperture of EF lenses yet and no Speed Booster (what happened to the third party one?)

The image quality is quite close between the two, with the GH5 + Speed Booster having about 1-2 stops better low light performance, but still a maximum of ISO 6400 really, whereas NX1 is 3200, 1600 to be safe. Take into account 1 stop extra light from Speed Booster and GH5 is definitely comfortable at 3 stops brighter than the NX1. That's the difference between 1600 and 12,800 but ask yourself if you really need usable 6400 at F0.95... rather than usable 3200 at F1.4! It'll cost ya!

Colour is a strong point of both, but the GH5 has the option of proper LOG. The NX1 stores a LOT of dynamic range in the standard non-LOG files and there is option to raise blacks, reveal more shadow info, prevent highlight clipping and adjust gamma curve so it's pretty good in this respect - and a LOT easier to grade.

Rolling shutter is a big win for the GH5. Ergonomics are a big win for the NX1.

Battery life is good on both but GH5 wins. There is a battery grip for the NX1 which sensibly doesn't require you to take the battery door off the camera or the battery out, it slots into a pin-out on the base of the NX1. ALL battery grips should be designed this way!

Both weather sealed, as long as you also use a weather sealed lens.

Samsung S 16-50mm OIS is weather sealed and one of the best zooms ever made. F2.0-F2.8 and super sharp.

Stabilisation on the NX1 in DIS can be hit and miss but when it works, it uses very advanced custom hardware chips to completely lock down a shot, more effectively than Warp Stabiliser. It's 5 axis and amazing if not much is moving in your shot. Sometimes exposure changes and sudden movements in the frame cause it to lose track and have to regain its composure within a few seconds, but that can spoil a shot for sure. The GH5 is all-round more consistent with the 5 axis in-body sensor shift but surprisingly for locked down shots the NX1 is less floaty and completely still like on a tripod. You don't need to enter the focal length for manual lenses and it is even more effective when using a Samsung lens with OIS. I find it works best with 35mm lenses if you are adapting a lens with no optical IS.

On the stills side, NX1 is superior for resolution and has very good dynamic range in the RAWs. GH5 is superior for continuous burst rate, stabilisation and adaptability to Canon EF glass.

I use a Novoflex Sony Alpha mount adapter with my NX1 and the 35mm F1.4 G, 85mm F1.4 Zeiss Planar. The 35mm is an evolution of the brilliant Minolta design and the 85mm is an evolution of the Contax Zeiss 85mm F1.4, one of my all time favourite lenses. These are the only two lenses I find myself needing on the NX1 as I have the Samsung 16-50mm F2.0 to cover the rest and when I need AF. One important point about the Sony Alpha 35 + 85 I mentioned is that they are much lighter and smaller than the Sigma ART equivalents for Canon and Nikon mount. Of course you can get a Nikon adapter for the NX1 which adjusts aperture, just like the Sony Alpha adapter does, but I think Sony Alpha glass is a bit undervalued on the used market, with some real gems in the lineup.

Video AF, I believe Philip Bloom did a big test of this and included the NX1. I rate it quite highly for this. The NX1 has phase detect pixels on the sensor so AF is really rather good in video mode - not quite Dual Pixel AF good but close. Sony's on the A6500 is hit and miss, sometimes works well, sometimes does stupid things. The GH5 doesn't have phase detect AF pixels so it relies on a very fast sensor scan of 240fps in stills mode and Panasonic's DFD technology to analyse focus and in that mode it is very fast. In video mode it falls back to the frame rate you have selected for the recording so in 24p the AF is really rather dog-slow and in 60p still not as good as the NX1.

On the codec side they are quite different. 10bit and superior 1080p codec, 4:2:2 on the GH5. The 10bit 4K really is lovely and 8bit 4K 60p very nice to have. The NX1 is of course an 8bit camera but the image quality is right up there, like a JPEG still, it just doesn't quite grade as well and there's still some macro blocking even at 160Mbit in H.265 with the hack, although I still rate it as a good performance. The Canon 1D C's 4K is also 8bit and this eats image quality for breakfast. 10bit on the GH5 really comes in handy for improving Panasonic's colour science (although it's not just 10bit responsible but a lot of other nice stuff going on) and for LOG it helps too. However it does make for files that are almost impossible to edit natively straight off the card at the moment, so you will have to transcode. Then again you should do that with the H.265 files from the NX1 as well, although Premiere does now support H.265 you will get smoother editing performance by using EditReady to convert them to ProRes.

Anything I've missed, let me know...

[sandro]

 I couldn't find exact info about the crop per resolution/fps on the Sonys, is it really x2 crop?

Answer did you try the xt20?

[Kisaha]

@Andrew Reid First of all I am glad you are more active with your blog and forum. Most of us we are here because we trust and value your independent thinking and opinions.

To add some things to the discussion.

GH5 batteries are the same as GH4s while the camera needs more power to operate (a lot of extra features and processing power). I have read that power consumption in real life is much bigger than GH4s were. I can not be certain of course. I week ago a shot a 3 hours continuous performance with my NX1/NX500/NX3000 with only one battery each, and I own the cameras (and the batteries) for a couple of years now (the NX1 a bit less, and in the end I changed the NX500 battery, just to be sure).

There is a whole thread about the NX1 EF speedbooster in your NX sub forum, people reporting great results, but it is a somehow specialized, and limited edition item so the price is to the higher side (600euros was it?), and it is called NX-L (it also has a Nazi thunder logo on it! Just kidding, but it does)! The main reason I didn't care, was the fact that I am covered with native lenses 100%. I used to use a 18-135 EF-S with a plain adapter, but no need for that anymore.

In the Philip Bloom video, he added the NX1 probably just for fun, and in my opinion it was the second best after Dual Pixel. I have expressed my opinion, that even Dual Pixel canon in spec sheets seem less than Sony's latest AF trickery, in real life is the best AF system and the one and only for pro video, but in my experience NX is working sufficiently good (Great results with Ronin and sliders), and better than Sony's (yesterday on a short that I was doing sound, an a6500 on gimbal and slider was extremely unstable so the camera men could use AF).

Plus, GH5 seems (and probably is) bulkier, and has almost 40% more weight than the NX1 (550 vs 725gr), if you add a cage, mic and a few extras, those 175grms are something.

GH cameras are pretty reliable cameras and highly recommended for "serious" videographers.

Something that is not mentioned a lot, and it should, is that H265 workflow right now is much easier than GH5 10 bit one, and 10 bit is demanding in both hardware and software, but mainly hardware!

 

[Andrew Reid]

8 hours ago, sandro said:

 I couldn't find exact info about the crop per resolution/fps on the Sonys, is it really x2 crop?

Answer did you try the xt20?

X-T20, tried very briefly, it doesn't have any extra crop in 4K, so an improvement on the X-T2 in that regards, but I think it has a bit more rolling shutter.

A6300/A6500 is a 1.5x crop sensor (APS-C, Super 35)

It turns into approx. 1.8 or 2x crop in some modes at the higher frame rates... 30fps in 4K and 100-120fps in 1080

8 hours ago, Kisaha said:

@Andrew Reid First of all I am glad you are more active with your blog and forum. Most of us we are here because we trust and value your independent thinking and opinions.

Thanks!!

8 hours ago, Kisaha said:

There is a whole thread about the NX1 EF speedbooster in your NX sub forum, people reporting great results, but it is a somehow specialized, and limited edition item so the price is to the higher side (600euros was it?), and it is called NX-L (it also has a Nazi thunder logo on it! Just kidding, but it does)! The main reason I didn't care, was the fact that I am covered with native lenses 100%. I used to use a 18-135 EF-S with a plain adapter, but no need for that anymore.

Ah so it is for sale? Got a link? How does the EF lens aperture work? Or doesn't it?

8 hours ago, Kisaha said:

In the Philip Bloom video, he added the NX1 probably just for fun, and in my opinion it was the second best after Dual Pixel. I have expressed my opinion, that even Dual Pixel canon in spec sheets seem less than Sony's latest AF trickery, in real life is the best AF system and the one and only for pro video, but in my experience NX is working sufficiently good (Great results with Ronin and sliders), and better than Sony's (yesterday on a short that I was doing sound, an a6500 on gimbal and slider was extremely unstable so the camera men could use AF).

I agree. Dual Pixel AF is the only one reliable and consistently high performing enough for pro work.

Sony's can be quick, but a bit crazy. GH5 isn't there yet. NX1 is definitely 2nd behind Canon but quite a limited range of Samsung lenses to make use of it.

[Kisaha]

@Andrew Reid Cheers!

https://www.produzionidalbasso.com/project/samsung-nx-camera-to-full-frame-with-nxl-adapter/

Probably has a couple left, but he isn't in the forum lately.

No aperture, just speedboosting! People seem excited about the quality, some say that it is equal, or even better than Metabones speedboosters.

He has more videos about NX-L.

This is the thread,

 

to cut a long story short, the crowd funding campaign doesn't exist anymore, the he was working on a Aputure Dec to NX conversion, but he is lost for the last couple of months now.

https://el-gr.facebook.com/NXL-284084538620105/

If you care about the NX-L, drop him a message on facebook (the crowdfunding campaign email doesn't work anymore).

[kidzrevil]

your smoked man thats why I got rid of the thing, I knew samsung wasn't gonna support it. Put it on ebay or something

[Kisaha]

@kidzrevil They are giving him 1350euros (1520$), that is the most support I ever heard from a camera company! He probably had paid less back then. \

Meanwhile, you have changed how many cameras since abandoning your NX1? (that is an honest, and serious question!)

[sandro]

14 hours ago, Kisaha said:

@kidzrevil They are giving him 1350euros (1520$), that is the most support I ever heard from a camera company! He probably had paid less back then. \

Meanwhile, you have changed how many cameras since abandoning your NX1? (that is an honest, and serious question!)

No wait that amount it's what I paid of course, nothing "generous" just the proof of purchase amount!

[Andrew Reid]

15 minutes ago, sandro said:

No wait that amount it's what I paid of course, nothing "generous" just the proof of purchase amount!

Still think it is generous of that business considering amount of use you had out of the camera until it died.

How long was the warranty on the NX1 since it is a 2015 camera? 2 or 3 years?

[Kisaha]

24 minutes ago, Andrew Reid said:

Still think it is generous of that business considering amount of use you had out of the camera until it died.

How long was the warranty on the NX1 since it is a 2015 camera? 2 or 3 years?

Yeah, I hope that applies in general to NX stuff.

It is 2 years in EU, and there are still new cameras out there (with obligation for the company to service them for 2 years since purchase).

[kidzrevil]

22 hours ago, Kisaha said:

@kidzrevil They are giving him 1350euros (1520$), that is the most support I ever heard from a camera company! He probably had paid less back then. \

Meanwhile, you have changed how many cameras since abandoning your NX1? (that is an honest, and serious question!)

I have owned 2 cameras since then. I don't quite understand if that was a question or if you are insinuating that I am wrong for changing camera bodies (?) so forgive me if I answer you incorrectly. My camera purchases have nothing to do with manufacturer support, they are always centered around the usability and performance of the body. In the case of the NX1 I jumped ship when it became obvious that Samsung was pulling support for the hardware. He's lucky to have gotten a refund based off the proof of purchase especially with the amount of time its been off the market

[Kisaha]

10 minutes ago, kidzrevil said:

I have owned 2 cameras since then. I don't quite understand the question though so forgive me. My camera purchases have nothing to do with manufacturer support, they are always centered around the usability and performance of the body. In the case of the NX1 I jumped ship when it became obvious that Samsung was pulling support for the hardware. He's lucky to have gotten a refund based off the proof of purchase especially with the amount of time its been off the market

I knew it could sound offensive, that's why I added the "honest and serious question" quote there.

I remember you got the XC10 and a Panasonic one, but haven't heard from you for some time, wondered if you changed recently.

Well, the point is, that if NX1 covers most bases, then it is more economical to keep the camera until it brakes.

I tried to find a better solution this whole last year, but I couldn't light heartedly say that "yes, this is a system that I will enjoy".

This last year I used GH4, Sonys crop and non, 5D II and III, and no mirrorless or dSLR is better for all around video. GH5 like a good candidate, I just haven't used one yet. We will see.

He was really lucky, indeed. I hope we all are, because most of us in Europe are still in warranty, or their cameras work great!

We missed you in our forums dude! Godspeed!

[kidzrevil]

The NX1 still has superior image quality to me. In both color and resolution it was ahead of its time and would've been amazing if they brought out an nx2 with ibis. I wanted to keep it and get their optically stabilized glass but then I heard Samsung's initial response to their exploding phones and thats when I made the decision to get rid of it. After the NX1 I got the XC10 for the ibis and the ergonomics now I am shooting with a Panasonic G80 with speedbooster xl. Non can compare but  The image quality of the pana g80 comes close to the nx1 to me when downscaled to 1080p to the average eye so im fine with that @Kisaha

[sandro]

I wonder if your system could a be replacement for the NX1 (at a low price), G85 + speedbooster xl (i dont have canon lenses though )

[mercer]

1 hour ago, sandro said:

I wonder if your system could a be replacement for the NX1 (at a low price), G85 + speedbooster xl (i dont have canon lenses though )

Don't you do more stills than video?

[Bizz]

1 hour ago, sandro said:

I wonder if your system could a be replacement for the NX1 (at a low price), G85 + speedbooster xl (i dont have canon lenses though )

I bought a G80 for 730€ (shipping included) from CVP. I think lens turbo II has a nice quality (relying on many opinions online) and you can buy it from 130€. 

[sandro]

5 hours ago, mercer said:

Don't you do more stills than video?

More video for sure.