Sony A6300 review (rolling) - Striking image but nagging issues

[Mat Mayer]

1 hour ago, Cinegain said:

...Imagine a crossbreed between the NX1, GH4, E-M1 and BMPCC. But yeah... not likely to happen unfortunately. Unless indeed someone takes it up to themselves to change the game, but that's just not realistic I'm afraid.

Isn't that a 4K Rebel? APSC. My 600D was more cinematic than the GH4, especially with Magic Lantern and Cinetyle. Should be great with vintage lenses too unlike the NX1. Maybe Canon have just been waiting until they perfected everything, like 4K overheating, and are about to pull the trigger on a perfect consumer priced cam?

[Escapist]

Looking at the vimeo videos, I'm not seeing any terrible rolling shutter issues. The heating issues though is just an engineering flaw.

[Cinegain]

11 hours ago, Mat Mayer said:

Isn't that a 4K Rebel? APSC. My 600D was more cinematic than the GH4, especially with Magic Lantern and Cinetyle. Should be great with vintage lenses too unlike the NX1. Maybe Canon have just been waiting until they perfected everything, like 4K overheating, and are about to pull the trigger on a perfect consumer priced cam?

Rebel? Maybe if it were mirrorless and any good, but nah, I'm talking about the crossbreed, so much more like a GH4 than a 600D. The only thing I'd want from a Canon is the color science and dual pixel AF, the rest is pretty worthless to me. Besides... you really think ML will bother with newer cams?

I love how the E-M1 holds in the hand and the dials operation, it has IBIS and also fine color and organic rendering. NX1, nice color as well, super duper chip infrastructure and processing, no overheating, only a glimps of what the hardware is actually is capable of made its way into the firmware possibilities. APS-C, but not really a huge benefit on pixel level concerning noise/sensitivity. Yet APS-C would be pretty cool, we've discussed a possible premium GH-camera with APS-C sensor much like the JVC GY-LS300. GH4 has that vari-angle touchscreen, ISO/WB/+/- dials on top I find pretty genius. Features that include an anamorphic mode for example. The BMPCC doesn't have much going on for itself, except that it is small and the footage is outragingly awesome. Imagine an actually practical camera crossbreed with the whole shebang just mentioned and writing stuff away as DNG RAW or ProRes. Wowowiwa.

Yeah, I was kinda thinking A6300... but now... eh... maybe not. Then I was like: BMMCC... but then again... nah. So, now I'm not sure... maybe a 5DmkIII ML RAW after all! (Nah, won't happen either )

[Mattias Burling]

1 hour ago, Mat Mayer said:

. Should be great with vintage lenses too unlike the NX1. 

The NX1 is far better with vintage glass than a Canon. More options to choose from as well.

[Mat Mayer]

2 hours ago, Mattias Burling said:

The NX1 is far better with vintage glass than a Canon. More options to choose from as well.

You have trumped my ignorance twice in two days. My hat comes off. I will try to stop posting BS. Although I thought I had read somewhere that vintage lenses weren't great with the NX1 and/or H.265. Maybe it was just a resolution issue.

[Mattias Burling]

32 minutes ago, Mat Mayer said:

You have trumped my ignorance twice in two days. My hat comes off. I will try to stop posting BS. Although I thought I had read somewhere that vintage lenses weren't great with the NX1 and/or H.265. Maybe it was just a resolution issue.

The NX1 doesn't always love soft lenses, but its still going to be sharper than the average Canon. I've gotten great results with m42 Zeiss and old Nikkors.

[s0ny]

12 hours ago, Andrew Reid said:

It's interesting. I avoided shooting SLOG this time. Went for Cine4 and graded with FilmConvert, Kodak, A7S II profile. Colour definitely seems nice.

Hi Andrew,

Which Source profile did you choose in FilmConvert? I just checked and the a7sii only has Cine1Pro and a slew of S-Log profiles. What would you recommend to get nice looking skintones like the NX1?

[MuffinDEbutton]

So what would you guys prefer for photography? Sony A6300 or Samsung NX1? I know Samsung quit the market, but the APS-C E-mount lenses are just disappointing..I am torn between those two.. Pros NX1: larger body, touchscreen, overall handling, bigger battery. Cons NX1: Samsung is pulling out of the market! Here in Germany it becomes more and more difficult to  get a Samsung lense, no future support or so on. Pros A6300: Maybe AF, little bit better low light performance, there are smart adapters for Canon, Nikon and Sony A-mount lenses, Sony has a future unlike Samsung. Cons A6300: Body/ overall handling, no touchscreen, bad battery life, no pro APS-C E-mount lenses, you are forced to buy the full frame Sony lenses for much higher costs..So what do you think?

[aslanua]

I am having such a love hate relationship with this camera. There is so much that is superb and some  a pain rolling shutter, and some( the bloody overheating) that i don't think i can live with. The still images at 3200 in difficult light are astounding, as Andrew has said the grain structure is indeed film like,  better than my 5d mk3, there is no color noise that i can see and a nice organic sharpness. i would put this camera ahead of my 5d mk3 in low light see attached images at 3200 5.6 on the standard cheap 16 to 50. The 5d mk3 would definitely exhibit color noise in the shadows in this scenario.

The same in 4k at 3200 is astoundingly good for my money, i can shoot in almost any situation at 3200 2.8 at 25p and to have such a clean picture this is a real plus for this money., but the bloody overheating, If I new this could be fixed with firmware I would hang on, but i don't think so, people talked about overheating with the a6000 but i never experienced this, so this is a new thing for me with cameras.

 

[wolf33d]

11 hours ago, Cinegain said:

Let's take it to Kickstarter!

Joking aside (or are we?!), I don't mind the M43 crop and mount too much, it's quite workable. I just wish it had a bit more performance in it. All comes down to pixelsize, bitdata and processing/codec. Imagine a crossbreed between the NX1, GH4, E-M1 and BMPCC. But yeah... not likely to happen unfortunately. Unless indeed someone takes it up to themselves to change the game, but that's just not realistic I'm afraid.

I think for good photography, M43 does not fill up my need in DR, high ISO, DoF and more importantly latitude of gradation. 
In video it is less important since gradation is limited by the codec as we not often have raw. But look at M43 high iso performance for instance... 

So yeah FF is good. APSC is ok if still quality is minimum D7200 quality, but still missing that 35 1.4 / 85mm 1.2...  FF look for some specific purposes  

[Michael Ma]

Just a built-in fan and maybe a 3x larger battery, at very little cost to Sony, this would have been an amazing camera.  Is this bad engineering?  I think so.  After all the engineering, it looks like they didn't do any product testing, at which they would have discovered they needed to stop the release and engineer out the issues.  Because the reliability, it's a toy/gadget that can produce professional results at times or in small increments, but it is not a professional tool that can be relied on.

[Cinegain]

1 hour ago, wolf33d said:

I think for good photography, M43 does not fill up my need in DR, high ISO, DoF and more importantly latitude of gradation. 
In video it is less important since gradation is limited by the codec as we not often have raw. But look at M43 high iso performance for instance... 

So yeah FF is good. APSC is ok if still quality is minimum D7200 quality, but still missing that 35 1.4 / 85mm 1.2...  FF look for some specific purposes  

Hence the 'I just wish it had a bit more performance in it'. But I don't mind the format itself per se. I don't require the fullframe look. Or atleast I'm not in favor of carrying around a fullframe camera with fullframe covering optics especially. APS-C/S35 is perfectly fine for me (wish the A6300 wasn't so stubborn, then that one would've been it!). If not natively, with MFT just throw on a focal reducer of some sorts. But still, you don't get much out of it on a pixel level, that much is true. It's like being a detective and gathering facts to put a bad guy away. The more evidence you have on him, the better case you have against him. Same for sensors, get more light, you get more facts and a clearer picture of what went on exactly. So yeah, unless we get that organic sensor and NX1 chip infrastructure working together (and having it written away to a juicy file), unfortunately MFT will keep underwhelming on performance. That's not to say you can't shoot the BMPCC on ISO800 with a nicely lit scene and get some stunning imagery. G7 is supposed to be quite fine as it is already too. So, you know. I'm pretty sure it could be decent.

Curious about the GH5 and E-M2.

[JurijTurnsek]

50 minutes ago, Michael Ma said:

Just a built-in fan and maybe a 3x larger battery, at very little cost to Sony, this would have been an amazing camera.

A 3rd-party grip could offer you both ... Meike, I'm looking at you, khm, khm.

[Phil A]

1 hour ago, Michael Ma said:

Just a built-in fan and maybe a 3x larger battery, at very little cost to Sony, this would have been an amazing camera.  Is this bad engineering?  I think so.  After all the engineering, it looks like they didn't do any product testing, at which they would have discovered they needed to stop the release and engineer out the issues.  Because the reliability, it's a toy/gadget that can produce professional results at times or in small increments, but it is not a professional tool that can be relied on.

This camera is aimed at photographers though, and not at the professional ones, that is.

Video function still mainly is a case of "good enough" with most hybrid cameras.

[Andrew Reid]

12 hours ago, Mat Mayer said:

Isn't that a 4K Rebel? APSC. My 600D was more cinematic than the GH4, especially with Magic Lantern and Cinetyle. Should be great with vintage lenses too unlike the NX1. Maybe Canon have just been waiting until they perfected everything, like 4K overheating, and are about to pull the trigger on a perfect consumer priced cam?

You really like your Rebel don't you?

The hybrid wouldn't be a 4K Rebel. Not unless a 600D ever had in-body 5 axis stabilisation, mirrorless lens mount, built in EVF, 120fps slow-mo, Speed Booster compatibility, proper LOG function (CineStyle isn't) and a form factor less resembling a 1970's camera and more in line with modern manufacturing in 2016.

1 hour ago, Michael Ma said:

Just a built-in fan and maybe a 3x larger battery, at very little cost to Sony, this would have been an amazing camera.  Is this bad engineering?  I think so.  After all the engineering, it looks like they didn't do any product testing, at which they would have discovered they needed to stop the release and engineer out the issues.  Because the reliability, it's a toy/gadget that can produce professional results at times or in small increments, but it is not a professional tool that can be relied on.

I do think they tested it.

Problem is the felt it was ok for the user they're aiming at with it.

It's not.

NX1 doesn't over heat. GH4 doesn't have this kind of severe rolling shutter.

Both can be had cheaper. But there's still a lot to like about the A6300.

[Cinegain]

Yeah. It's like a Sony 'feature' these days. Chelsea Northrup even reported overheating when shooting stills only. Ouch. Wouldn't want to burn my fingers on that.

[mike_tee_vee]

6 hours ago, MuffinDEbutton said:

So what would you guys prefer for photography? Sony A6300 or Samsung NX1? I know Samsung quit the market, but the APS-C E-mount lenses are just disappointing..I am torn between those two.. Pros NX1: larger body, touchscreen, overall handling, bigger battery. Cons NX1: Samsung is pulling out of the market! Here in Germany it becomes more and more difficult to  get a Samsung lense, no future support or so on. Pros A6300: Maybe AF, little bit better low light performance, there are smart adapters for Canon, Nikon and Sony A-mount lenses, Sony has a future unlike Samsung. Cons A6300: Body/ overall handling, no touchscreen, bad battery life, no pro APS-C E-mount lenses, you are forced to buy the full frame Sony lenses for much higher costs..So what do you think?

If you needed a body now, I would get an NX1.  It's more of a complete package with longer battery life, good ergonomics, no overheating, great image, etc.  As of today's date, the NX1 gives you a better shooting experience.  Don't worry about an eco-system or an investment.  Cameras are meant to be used, not collected.  Sony's future system upgrade path won't fix the current flaws of the A6300 (i.e. no touchscreen, poor handling, rolling shutter, etc). 

You can use an NX1 until it dies after the warranty is over, and then maybe look at a A6300 successor.  Sony make some really questionable design decisions, and the A6300's deal breakers are too hard to ignore.

[theeurbangent]

I've been waiting day by day for this review and now I'm somewhat disappointed. I'm shopping for something I can record weddings with as well as use for travel. But now I'm more torn than ever between this and the gx8.

[Pyriphlegethon]

21 hours ago, BrorSvensson said:

I believe that the new Sigma Canon to Sony adapter allows for video auto focusing. Could be wrong though.

I contacted Sigma directly about this after very little valuable data came out at WPPI. Their response is that yes, indeed, video AF with the MC-11 and 18–35 1.8 and/or 50–100 1.8 will function just as any other of the newer Sony lenses do on the a6300. This news, if it turns out to be true, will make my year. I will make sure I have a Sony at NAB next month and test this personally. I sold my A7R2, but not without major hesitation. I updated my review on the a6300 here when I did a shoot without using the camera's internal compression and the camera still overheated. Recorded to an Atomos Assassin, climate controlled indoor environment the whole time and the camera temperature warning came on after about 90 minutes of off and on use. That's sad. I updated my review here to warn people about more than the jello. My new favorite name for the camera is "jello in a toaster". I'm kind of hoping it becomes a thing and people stop referring to it as the a6300 and use my pseudonym instead.

 

[Geoff CB]

58 minutes ago, Pyriphlegethon said:

I contacted Sigma directly about this after very little valuable data came out at WPPI. Their response is that yes, indeed, video AF with the MC-11 and 18–35 1.8 and/or 50–100 1.8 will function just as any other of the newer Sony lenses do on the a6300. This news, if it turns out to be true, will make my year. I will make sure I have a Sony at NAB next month and test this personally. I sold my A7R2, but not without major hesitation. I updated my review on the a6300 here when I did a shoot without using the camera's internal compression and the camera still overheated. Recorded to an Atomos Assassin, climate controlled indoor environment the whole time and the camera temperature warning came on after about 90 minutes of off and on use. That's sad. I updated my review here to warn people about more than the jello. My new favorite name for the camera is "jello in a toaster". I'm kind of hoping it becomes a thing and people stop referring to it as the a6300 and use my pseudonym instead.

 

Great picture