My review of the JVC LS300

[Mattias Burling]

2 hours ago, bunk said:

I opened the footage in Photoshop. And created two cut outs. Without changing the footage I traced some of the macroblocks at 100% and created outlines. Next I changed saturation ... not precise but not too far off either. I'm on my laptop, maybe that somehow emphases it somehow.

Ok, you meant at that level. ThoughtI was crazy for a while  

That to me is regular 8-bit artifacts just like the c100, fs100, a7s, a7sii, fs5, etc, you get the idea.
The way to get past it is to shoot 10-bit. Which this camera does.
However the a7s, a7sii, etc does not.

And if we stay in the segment and compare apples to apples its the c300ii, fs5 or fs7 that can compete. And those are in a different price league, and two of them in a different size large as well.

 

[Oliver Daniel]

7 hours ago, Mattias Burling said:

How did you grade,because I wasn't able to replicate your problem with macro blocking, no matter how much I pushed?
And if you get it, remember, this is 8-bit 4K just like a GH4, A7sii or something, they can't be treated as raw.
And the camera does shoot 10-bit 4:2:2 if one really wants to grade.

I won't make the decision if its worth to buy by looking at two clips, that seems pretty harsh. Specially since that means you pretty much only have the fs7, c300 and c300ii left to choose from. 

I didn't know this camera shoots 10 bit 422. Is that with an external recorder?

[Mattias Burling]

1 hour ago, Oliver Daniel said:

I didn't know this camera shoots 10 bit 422. Is that with an external recorder?

Thats what I thought, but double checking it seems the SDI is alos 8-bit. Thats a bit of a bummer for those who need 10-bit.
But given how much is produced in 8-bit with C100 and similar, personal, I would be ok.
A great example was earlier in the thread, I dont pixel peep zoomed in with my face against the monitor. Neither does the audience.

[bunk]

22 hours ago, Mattias Burling said:

But given how much is produced in 8-bit with C100 and similar, personal, I would be ok.
A great example was earlier in the thread, I dont pixel peep zoomed in with my face against the monitor. Neither does the audience.

Ouch! ...maybe you should have, before uploading the footage. And probably after it was mentioned something was off.

 

Both files are "corrupted" One takes around a second and the other around 15 frames before macroblocking becomes acceptable. Explains why I didn't notice anything worthwhile with gunpowder as I worked somewhere in the middle of the footage

So if you're going to hang onto the JVC you might want to keep in mind, that you can trash the first second.

[Mattias Burling]

38 minutes ago, bunk said:

Ouch! ...maybe you should have, before uploading the footage. And probably after it was mentioned something was off.

So if you're going to hang onto the JVC you might want to keep in mind, that you can trash the first second.

"Ouch"... Im sorry but if you thought that was suposed to offend I appologize. But I stand by my statement. Lots of nice videos are shot on c100, 5D, a7sii, NX1, etc. And no one watches them with the nose to the screen. You dont have to agree.

Plus, there is also the 4:2:2 YUV. 

Doubt they would let me "hang onto" it, thats not how these things work

(I wish..  )

[NX1user]

23 hours ago, Mattias Burling said:

Thats what I thought, but double checking it seems the SDI is alos 8-bit. Thats a bit of a bummer for those who need 10-bit.
But given how much is produced in 8-bit with C100 and similar, personal, I would be ok.
A great example was earlier in the thread, I dont pixel peep zoomed in with my face against the monitor. Neither does the audience.

I'm still confused. The camera shoots 10-bit internally or externally?

 

[Mattias Burling]

29 minutes ago, NX1user said:

I'm still confused. The camera shoots 10-bit internally or externally?

 

No it seems that the highest internal settings are
8-Bit 4:2:2 YUV in HD
8-Bit 4:2:2 YUV in Cinema 2K
8-Bit 4:2:0 150mbps in 4K/UHD
8-Bit 4:2:0 150mbps in Cinema 4K

Both Internally.

[Mattias Burling]

Some Footage

We where heading out for a walk in the park today and I grabbed the LS300 for a test run.
Unfortunately I underestimated the wind, which was quite strong, and brought a low weight tripod.
So prepare for some shaky footage.

I used a dumb adapter and two Canon EF-Lenses, the 35mm f2.0 and the 24-105mm f4.0.
This resulted in no aperture control and no stabilization… yeah, even more shakes.

The reason for this was simple. I tend to shoot vintage glass, soft filters and use heavy grading.
Lots of people like myself find it appealing. But some want a clean and digital, sharp look.
And just to get that out of the way I used “L” glass and just a mild grade.
Next time we will go full “Instagram”.

The shooting experience was great. Its easy to use, everything works nicely.
Again, its a camcorder, like riding a bike.

Screen is a bit though in the sun, but using the EVF helps. Not the best EVF either but totally usable.

I also uploaded a version with grain to Vimeo.
(Youtube kills grain)

 

The Prime Zoom

On the way home I saw some beasts and though it was a great opportunity to test the Prime Zoom.
For those that dont know what it is, the camera uses its ability to use different cropped sensor sizes for a zoom without loosing resolution.

Using the prime zoom is awesome. Just push the zoom rocker and its smooth.
It also turned out that it works in 4K. No where near as much of a zoom but still.. its cool.
The only real negative I see from using it is moire, but aren't we all used to that...

This is at 105mm (roughly 155mm FF equivalent)

With the Prime Zoom, dont know exactly but its a s16 crop so maybe someone knows the math.

 

 

 

[fuzzynormal]

The more I see of modern cams, the more I'm convinced that as long as one knows what they're doing, they can accomplish anything and make it look awesome.  It's only going to get cheaper and better.  Based on these sorts of examples, I'd only be hesitant to shoot with the JVC because of build quality rather than IQ...and only because I've been burned with some of their cheap camcorders in the past; might be different now.

What one can do with $1K in gear is staggering to me.  And if you can spend 10K, you should be in IQ heaven.

Feels like we're all sort of on the other side of the pro-level IQ acquisition hump for consumers, the sort of reward that the 5DII promised those handful of years ago.  Man, that was fast.

[Mattias Burling]

19 minutes ago, fuzzynormal said:

The more I see of modern cams, the more I'm convinced that as long as one knows what they're doing, they can accomplish anything and make it look awesome.  It's only going to get cheaper and better.  Based on these sorts of examples, I'd only be hesitant to shoot with the JVC because of build quality rather than IQ...and only because I've been burned with some of their cheap camcorders in the past; might be different now.

What one can do with $1K in gear is staggering to me.  And if you can spend 10K, you should be in IQ heaven.

Feels like we're all sort of on the other side of the pro-level IQ acquisition hump for consumers, the sort of reward that the 5DII promised those handful of years ago.  Man, that was fast.

Yeah,agreed.

And if one wants just image quality. Not ergonomics, NDs, features, bla bla, just image quality and time isn't of the essence.
The IMO, we passed it along time ago. All these new cameras pushing and pushing.
But at the end.... and I might get trolled for saying it... I think the Raw images out of the D16, BMCC 2.5K, Red One MX and the 5D Mark iii Raw are the most good looking images ever. Nothing can beat them.
If its all about image and nothing else then screw 4K etc, go raw. 

But cameras like this is about a "good" or even "great" image, coupled with ease of use, tools for speed, audio, you know what I mean.
Its a Rally Car and the raw shooters are an old classic Aston Martin from the first Bond movie.

 

[dbp]

4 minutes ago, Mattias Burling said:

Yeah,agreed.

And if one wants just image quality. Not ergonomics, NDs, features, bla bla, just image quality and time isn't of the essence.
The IMO, we passed it along time ago. All these new cameras pushing and pushing.
But at the end.... and I might get trolled for saying it... I think the Raw images out of the D16, BMCC 2.5K, Red One MX and the 5D Mark iii Raw are the most good looking images ever. Nothing can beat them.
If its all about image and nothing else then screw 4K etc, go raw. 

But cameras like this is about a "good" or even "great" image, coupled with ease of use, tools for speed, audio, you know what I mean.
Its a Rally Car and the raw shooters are an old classic Aston Martin from the first Bond movie.

 

For sure. Those 4 always have the nicest mojo, other than the really high end (ARRI, Dragon etc..)

It's nice that high quality images can be had for 1000-2000$. In the past, you always had to pick the best camera that suited *most* of your shooting needs, but there was always compromises, because no camera can be suited for every scenario. Now, I feel like it makes more and more sense to own multiple cameras for different situations. Here's my run and gun camera, my cine-style camera, wedding camera, slow mo camera etc... You can travel light based on what you need that day.

 

[Mattias Burling]

Today I went Vintage
Best part of an MFT mount is of course the short flange.
Here are some frames from an old Chinon 55mm that I got for next to nothing.

 

And here is something different.
In an attempt of illustrating how it is working with a "real" camcorder compared to a cinema camera or DSLR, I uploaded an unedited clip.
IMO it shows how it is. You keep rolling since the SDs lasts forever. The battery runs all day so you rarely turn the camera of. The NDs and other manual control lets you change things fast.

Its the same lens as above, so no stabilization.
I added a LUT but did no adjustments so the grade is of in many places.

 

[Dustin]

seems like you get a good image with the plus of having audio and a traditional camcorder format. Is there a log or flat profile? Pardon if you've already addressed this...

[Mattias Burling]

9 minutes ago, Dustin said:

seems like you get a good image with the plus of having audio and a traditional camcorder format. Is there a log or flat profile? Pardon if you've already addressed this...

No problem, thread is getting long

Yes, there is a Log profile. Grades nicely.

 

[DBounce]

Not bad, but it doesn't scream "must have" either. Just not feeling any magic from it.

[Mattias Burling]

14 minutes ago, DBounce said:

Not bad, but it doesn't scream "must have" either. Just not feeling any magic from it.

Problem for me is ignoring the price difference with the c300ii and the added features compared to a c100ii.

[DBounce]

4 minutes ago, Mattias Burling said:

Problem for me is ignoring the price difference with the c300ii and the added features compared to a c100ii.

Do you have any footage of it on a slider or gimbal?

[Mattias Burling]

9 minutes ago, DBounce said:

Do you have any footage of it on a slider or gimbal?

Not yet, just that opening slider shot but it was so damn windy. Didn't bring a stabilized lens so I had to skip the slider for the rest of the video.

Will shoot more vintage this week and use a slider. Hopefully test out the s16 mode as well with C-mounts.

[Justin Bacle]

Thank you for this evolving review Mattias

Did you get to try a C mount Zoom (I think you had one) one this camera ? Curious of the capabilities to go from S35 to S16 on the same sensor, at the flick of a switch.

I do not get why people keep pixel-peeping. Of course it's gonna fall appart if you grade it too hard ... it's an 8 bit codec. The picture looks goods and that's what matters.

[Mattias Burling]

13 minutes ago, Justin Bacle said:

Thank you for this evolving review Mattias

Did you get to try a C mount Zoom (I think you had one) one this camera ? Curious of the capabilities to go from S35 to S16 on the same sensor, at the flick of a switch.

I have a s16 TV-Zoom yes. And you bet I will try it out