My review of the JVC LS300

[gatopardo]

There's footage from this camera that looks horrible ( like those yellow highlights that are present in many youtube videos ) and yours that looks quite nice. Is the J-log + grading that's avoiding this? Thanks mattias for the review

[Mattias Burling]

2 minutes ago, gatopardo said:

There's footage from this camera that looks horrible ( like those yellow highlights that are present in many youtube videos ) and yours that looks quite nice. Is the J-log + grading that's avoiding this? Thanks mattias for the review

Probably yes. 99% of the reviews are from before the firmware updates.

[IronFilm]

This camera would easily double its sales if only it had 10bit 4K

[jgharding]

I like the detail and colour. It's not up to top end 4K but it is nice!

I find the blocking and banding quite upsetting though, without that it'd be much much better.

Here's a quick grade i did... I feel it looks really nice with 16mm grain covering all the compression grime.

[Mattias Burling]

2 hours ago, IronFilm said:

This camera would easily double its sales if only it had 10bit 4K

Honestly, I don't think so.
Video shooters are conservative. It took Panasony ages to even get noticed. In Sweden they are still considered "Low Class" and their second hand value is at an all time low. And if we look at other 8-Bit cameras with only HD, not even 4:2:2, no slowmo, not as versatile mount, etc, they are massively popular.
So I think JVC could implement Raw and it would still have a hard time. Just look at Kinemini.

Now I know, JVC have a much longer tradition and are more known among cameras. But still. Even Nikon are still considered "bad" at video even though they passed Canon in internal quality of unhacked DSLRs some time ago.
But if JVC keep at it, Im sure they can succeed. Just hope they can hang on longer than Samsung (which of course is another example of a camera selling way way under its potential).

[BrorSvensson]

14 minutes ago, Mattias Burling said:

Honestly, I don't think so.
Video shooters are conservative. It took Panasony ages to even get noticed. In Sweden they are still considered "Low Class" and their second hand value is at an all time low. And if we look at other 8-Bit cameras with only HD, not even 4:2:2, no slowmo, not as versatile mount, etc, they are massively popular.
So I think JVC could implement Raw and it would still have a hard time. Just look at Kinemini.

Now I know, JVC have a much longer tradition and are more known among cameras. But still. Even Nikon are still considered "bad" at video even though they passed Canon in internal quality of unhacked DSLRs some time ago.
But if JVC keep at it, Im sure they can succeed. Just hope they can hang on longer than Samsung (which of course is another example of a camera selling way way under its potential).

yeah the g7 goes for less than 400$ used

[Mattias Burling]

20 minutes ago, BrorSvensson said:

yeah the g7 goes for less than 400$ used

Yup, $480 brand new means $300 used in my world. Maximum.

[Cinegain]

This looks familliar to you, Mattias?

As per your suggestion I checked out the prices and saw that Rajala was nice 'n reachable from the Central Station. Unfortunately they only had stock in the central warehouse, not actually locally, but they were kind enough to give me brief general directions to FotoKungen (underground green line southerly direction, about 2 mins ride, then ask someone for further). I roughly had an idea where it would be from looking at Google Maps the day before, just I was offline in the city of course, so I had to go by memory, luckily some GPS indication on a general map as well. Had about 19 mins before closing time to get from one shop to the other. I failed to access any wireless internet with about 4 minutes to go, I had no idea where to find them and then it caught my eye! FotoKungen, right there! And they had one! So yeah. Now finally I get to enjoy the feeling of having those sweet Swedish deals! Picked up the G7 for those 3990 SEK. Thanks for the heads up! After Andy's praising words I was really intrigued, but after the double cashback I wasn't very keen on getting one for those hardcore prices they sell 'em for in Central Europe.

[Mattias Burling]

23 minutes ago, Cinegain said:

This looks familliar to you, Mattias?

As per your suggestion I checked out the prices and saw that Rajala was nice 'n reachable from the Central Station. Unfortunately they only had stock in the central warehouse, not actually locally, but they were kind enough to give me brief general directions to FotoKungen (underground green line southerly direction, about 2 mins ride, then ask someone for further). I roughly had an idea where it would be from looking at Google Maps the day before, just I was offline in the city of course, so I had to go by memory, luckily some GPS indication on a general map as well. Had about 19 mins before closing time to get from one shop to the other. I failed to access any wireless internet with about 4 minutes to go, I had no idea where to find them and then it caught my eye! FotoKungen, right there! And they had one! So yeah. Now finally I get to enjoy the feeling of having those sweet Swedish deals! Picked up the G7 for those 3990 SEK. Thanks for the heads up! After Andy's praising words I was really intrigued, but after then double cashback I wasn't very keen on getting one for those hardcore prices they sell 'em for in Central Europe.

It sure looks nice  

My old hometown actually. Im about two hours away now.
How long are you here, you should browse blocked and score some used gear. You can almost always get 50-70% of the new price on used Panasonic stuff.
Here is a search for "panasonic" in Stockholm. Im sure the sellers would meat you at the central station.

And remember, their prices are always just "asking", always low ball

http://www.blocket.se/stockholm/ljud_bild/foto_Videokameror?q=Panasonic&w=1&st=s&ca=11&is=1&l=0&md=th&cg=5040&st=s&c=5042

 

[Cinegain]

Thanks for that! I was in the area on a business occassion. Wasn't able to make a lot of time for pleasure, so to say, that's why it got a little tight with closing time too. Already back home. But I'm sure I'll be there somewhere in the next few months or so again, so I'll keep that in mind. Again: thanks!

[Mattias Burling]

Next order of business 

I know I said I would shoot more vintage. But the Metabones Smart Adapter side tracked me.
Received it today and the first thing I did was to make sure the stabilization in my EF lenses worked.

I also, even though I rarely use it, tested the auto focus. And I was quite surprised.
It was pretty decent on both lenses.
Better however on the 24-105, much more quite as well.

Even in the lowlight its not hunting very much.

 

[gatopardo]

Very nice footage! Is it J-Log? What LUT / Film emulation are you using (if any)? Did you soften the image in post? Thanks

[DBounce]

3 hours ago, Mattias Burling said:

Next order of business 

I know I said I would shoot more vintage. But the Metabones Smart Adapter side tracked me.
Received it today and the first thing I did was to make sure the stabilization in my EF lenses worked.

I also, even though I rarely use it, tested the auto focus. And I was quite surprised.
It was pretty decent on both lenses.
Better however on the 24-105, much more quite as well.

Even in the lowlight its not hunting very much.

 

Looks pretty good. So I ask myself why I am not excited about this camera. Could it be the earlier firmware tainted my opinion?

[Mattias Burling]

8 hours ago, gatopardo said:

Very nice footage! Is it J-Log? What LUT / Film emulation are you using (if any)? Did you soften the image in post? Thanks

Yes its J-log. Its a mix of Impulz Fuji and Kodak Gold. Last shot is ungraded.

No but its in pretty lowish light at the end and it looses fine detail at very gain/iso (like most 8-bit).

Other than that Im pleased its a detailed but not "digitaly sharp" image. Shooting rec709 or Cine with sharpness up will give you that.

4 hours ago, DBounce said:

Looks pretty good. So I ask myself why I am not excited about this camera. Could it be the earlier firmware tainted my opinion?

I get excited from using it. Ive always loved this form factor and level of controls. 

[Jason Mackey]

If you happen to have an m43 speedbooster (or cheaper equivalent) lying around, I'd be curious to know if it can cover the s35 sensor.

[Mattias Burling]

5 hours ago, Jason Mackey said:

If you happen to have an m43 speedbooster (or cheaper equivalent) lying around, I'd be curious to know if it can cover the s35 sensor.

I only have a smart adapter. But you can bet Im pretty curious to.

Im 99.99% sure it covers the sensor since an MFT mount is wider that s35.

The question is if the edges would be just a distorted mess, given the optical designer probably didnt care about the area outside the intended sensor.

A Speedbooster would however let in more light. So having one would give you the option to trade sensor size for light with no loss in resolution.

Also the cameras sensor size is variable. If the SB on s35 looks bad, it might look great somewhere in between.

[Don Kotlos]

9 minutes ago, Mattias Burling said:

Also the cameras sensor size is variable. If the SB on s35 looks bad, it might look great somewhere in between.

I have noticed the same with many M43 and c mount lenses on the A7rii. For example I find myself using the SLRmagic 25 0.95 in S35 more and more, and any vignetting/loss of resolution happens at the very corners of the frame which go away when I create a 2.35:1 crop. Anyways the resolution of many anamorpic lenses was not that great in the edges either so... 

[Kisaha]

After the price drop and the latest firmware update, it seems like the best "workhorse" option in the market.

I own the NX500/NX1 and usually rent the C100ii or C300 for paid jobs, so I will need to buy a dedicated video camera soon (September) and I would like it to be 4K but modestly priced, and I am not convinced with the Sony options so far.. 

I will wait, and closely follow the market until then, but this JVC, considering the cost and some innovative implementations, seems more and more appealing by the day.

[Mattias Burling]

I to was after some sort of Cinema/Camcorder hybrid.
The C100ii of course came to mind or the now sub $3K c100i. But the JVC always intrigued me, it seemed to fit the bill perfectly but still people wasn't buying it.
I kept my eyes on it and when the first Lowlight footage from J-Log came out I just had to try it. 

Now when I have been shooting with it for a week, and love it btw, a few thoughts and questions about the market surfaced in my mind.

• I thought that the lessons from the initial bad reviews of the BMCC and C100 would have taught people to not let specs blind them. But maybe more importantly, don't let their feelings about brands get in the way of the results people are getting. Its like when people say "Nikon is bad for video" based on what reviews said 5 years ago.
  Same with the BMCC, "Philip Bloom says you can only shoot for 30min with a huge rig and no SDOF". But we all know thats not the general truth.
  A guy on this board just said, "JVC footage looks like news" when he has only ever used a t2i.
• My suspicion is that the reason we aren't seeing more reviewers giving the camera an actual chance is because its a JVC. They might have been big back in the days, and thats why the reviewers so far has been traditional "Camera Men". But a s35 is mostly interesting for the cinematic shooter, and they/we aren't used to JVC. Just look how long it took before Sony and Panasonic was widely considered an option over DSLRs.
  Or the faith of the NX1.
• And speaking of Panasonic. Does a day even go past without people shouting for a AF200? Well, why wait, its already here. It has the 4K, 4:2:2: LOG, Improved form factor and soon HFR that the AF100 users wanted.
  Plus a cheaper initial price. Plus a s35 sensor.. with the m4/3 mount. And Panasonic owns JVC..
  What are they still waiting for?
• Lastly, I could buy it just for the satisfaction of owning a camera from a brand named "Japan Victor Company"

I know NAB is close but Im pretty set on getting a LS300 anyway. I simply don't want to give it back. If you know me Im a vintage lens junkie, and there isn't a better camera to satisfy that need on the market.
NAB for me will more be about a B-cam or 4K recorder.

Speaking of B-Cam. Given that a B-Cam imo should use the same lenses and do stuff that the A-Cam doesn't, I currently have two great options.

• BMPCC, Brings a small form factor so that it can always travel in a pocket of the bag. Ads a second angle, Raw and the super stealth, given that the LS300 might raise eyebrows in certain situations. It can use both the MFT, all the vintage and EF lenses I have.
• 5DMark3, Can only use the EF lenses and some of the vintage. But it brings Raw, FF, Stills, even better lowlight and semi stealth.

So if NAB doesn't bring another Raw option to use as B-Cam, my 5D3 might get to stick around or be replaced my a BMPCC.
(PS. For the love of god BMD... A BMPC4K with an active MFT.. I can crop the sensor in post for you.. instant buy.)

[Kisaha]

Why not a NX1 as a B-cam? And a NX500as a 3rd(!)? I do the occasional event coverage (music/dance plays), and I would strongly considered using all 3 of them (usually have 3 camera operators and 4 cameras, I use a dSLR for a very wide shot and a video camera for closer looks on the scene).

This JVC looks like a winner, it is maybe a firmware update away from being the best video/cine camera hybrid.

I do not see a niced priced Canon 4K video camera coming any soon!