Nikon D5 & D500 from a different perspective - 4K Nikon DSLRs!

[Guest Ebrahim Saadawi]

I've seen the newest Nikon announcements to be completely under-rated mainly because the mirrorless dominates this EOSHD community, but me, DSLRs form dominates me, I find a DSLR a completely different league of hybrid shooting, ergonomics and lenses and ease of use for both stills & video. I LOVE the DSLR form factor. Love it. When I first held a 5DII in my hand I felt, that's it, that's the form factor I want to shoot video with screw camcorders. Never could like the mirrorless ones as much, besides the GH4 which comes closest to me in the way it operates to a high-end proper digital SLR from Canon and Nikon, a really beautiful design (in functionality not looks!). The nx1 seems also just as good as a DSLR. It's a pitty for me why Sony's current hot cameras were not made in bodies of A99/A77 like forms, instead of starting this race to the bottom (of size). An A77 body with a6300 internals would crush the market and stop overheating & allow for a bigger battery. 

The current form factor that is boring and repetitive from DSLRs/GH4/nx1 is simply because Canon & Nikon have been PERFECTING their designs for camera usability, and they reached a grand maturity of peak design in how you hold the camera push the buttons size balance weight placement of functions menus, a 70+ year-old maturation, tweaking each single button and each inch of body ergonomics to reach what the human hands & mind can use.

This sense is just to explain the sense of me liking DSLRs much more than mirrorless cameras even if I lose the EVF (loup) and peaking (ML/MAGN). Much larger batteries and ability to take a thousand + images is a major importance for me. And I believe anyone who ever used a Canon DSLR with ML knows what perfect usability is, so is Nikons (but to a lesser degree in video uses) 

The rant also explains why I care at all about the Nikon D500 & D5. 

 

 

Let's start with the Nikon D5:

 

The camera is what I and MANY have been waiting for, a Nikon DSLR with 4K video.

Combine the colours with resolution and the FLAT Log mode and I am pretty certain you get an image that's is absolutely gorgeous, completely new level above the rest. It's cinema standard S35 sensor size, ridiculous lowlight, a body that can go where cinema cameras can't (rain/dust/wear), with the popular Nikon F mount, all that gorgeous Nikkor glass we've been adapting to other cameras like Andy's 28-70mm F/2.8 & 80-200mm F/2.8, plus being S35 opens the world of Nikkor APS-C glass. 

So what's not to like? why isn't it being discussed/bought/reviewed? 

It only records 4K in 3 minute bursts. Mic drop. 

Okay, let's accept it and move onto what we can do. Many of us can live with the limit for nature/music/narrative,

The Canon 1DXII HDMI output is 1080p maximum,

while a missing piece we forgot is that, the D5 outputs a UHD, Log, Nikon coloured, S35 image to any external recorder, in 4:2:2 YUV colour sampling and ProRes Codec, so better codec solution than 1DXII really. It can output the live feed until the battery runs out (next month) without heating, it's just the memory card slot heat that's the issue. We rig tiny a7s's with recorders/monitors and this will balance out MUCH better as a cinema rig.

 

 

(A side talk, to give an idea on why Nikon limit it to 3 minutes & why Sony cameras overheat, the comparably built 1DXII (with all that incredibly dense weather sealing), after keeping the 1DXII record 4K 24P for a while, the sales rep got a near-third degree burn just touching the Card compartment! I saw it and literally prescribed him a local cure.)

-To the engineer-oriented-educated ones here I wonder Why the hell does large chip (s35) 4K produce SO MUCH heat and why is Samsung the only company keeping it cool?

 

So isn't it worthy of attention paired with an Assassin/Pix-e5h/q7? It could be a one hell of an image for cinema and surpasses 1DXII DR/RS/codec/who knows, very likely actually produce better images than c100/fs5/1dc. We are judging cameras by specs again even though we KNOW it's utter nonsense.

 

 

 

-Nikon D500

 

The little beast 

 

 

Also what's we've been waiting for, a Nikon SLR with 4K video, Flat LOG, 30min recording, Clean 4K HDMI, tilty touchy screen, tank built, mic & headphones, perfect ergonomics, insane lowlight & DR, 

Only with one issue: 4K is a crop. If our previously dropped mic were up it'd drop again. It's like a Nikon conspiracy to annoy us with ONE bug. 

 

 

But again, aren't we a tiny bit exaggerating the effect? It's still a larger than GH4 pick-up area but with FAR higher dynamic range, noise performance, colour rendition, gradeability, etc not to mention body & stills & staggering speed plus great D5500/D7200 like 1080P S35 mode with super clean 60p.

 

 

 

 

So, I really, really think we should test at least the D500 as it's a target in the 1900/2000$ area we all buy and who knows it might be significantly better than an over-heating, jelloing 4K mirrorless getting all the attention or a GH4, NX1, A7s, These Nikon 4K cameras with the wide DR sensors & Flat profile & noise performance & colour are not to be taken lightly. The D500 in my hands is HOME. I wanted to take it home just for the hold! Very few cameras are sooooo ergonomically built by the inch.

 

Please: 

-Reach out for test drives

-post any footage you can find from these two (especially D500), 

Let's see if it's a pretty image as I anticipate.

 

I am just playing devil's advocate here just to give perspective, not paid by Nikon... though i'd take some if they insist =)

[Inazuma]

For the crop at 4k, the lack of fast lenses below 18mm and lack of a 24-70mm equivalent lens would make it a hard buy for some people (mainly documentary-ists). But I agree, other than that it looks to be an excellent camera. I find the DR and colour of the D5500 to be more pleasing than my c100 ii. The only other thing holding it back is the pricetag. Quite high by today's standards. 

[mercer]

Good post. I am interested in seeing some proper examples with these cameras 

[IronFilm]

Nikon will be removing the tiny 4K time limit on the D5 in a future firmware update I read on NR.

 

As for the issues with the D5/D500,  have we forgotten already how *bad* the first ever HDSLR was from Nikon? But then fairly quickly they got ok, and then eventually surpassed Canon.

I reckon the same will be true with 4K, this is just their first 4K camera. Give them a little more time and we'll see a Nikon D5700 come out eventually which does wonderful 4K for cheap!

[David Bowgett]

I think a lot of the reason why the D5 and D500 caught so much flack was because at the time they were announced, people were still expecting the A6300 to be a game-changing camera for 4K. And while you could probably make a case that the A6300 still represents the better option for video users, I think now we're seeing that there's still a lot of engineering issues regarding 4K on APS-C and above that manufacturers (except, ironically, the one who's now pulled out of the market) are having trouble dealing with.

[IronFilm]

True true, I wonder what would've been the reaction to Nikon's 4K if the A6300 had been announced one month early and Nikon's one month later. It probably wouldn't have seemed so shabby!

[SR]

Glad to see Nikon getting on board the 4k train. But guessing from its omission, it's still 8bit. How is it that the pocket is the only one that can do 10bit internal?

[sanveer]

On 3/28/2016 at 3:34 AM, Ebrahim Saadawi said:

I've seen the newest Nikon announcements to be completely under-rated mainly because the mirrorless dominates this EOSHD community, but me, DSLRs form dominates me, I find a DSLR a completely different league of hybrid shooting, ergonomics and lenses and ease of use for both stills & video. I LOVE the DSLR form factor. Love it. When I first held a 5DII in my hand I felt, that's it, that's the form factor I want to shoot video with screw camcorders. Never could like the mirrorless ones as much, besides the GH4 which comes closest to me in the way it operates to a high-end proper digital SLR from Canon and Nikon, a really beautiful design (in functionality not looks!). The nx1 seems also just as good as a DSLR. It's a pitty for me why Sony's current hot cameras were not made in bodies of A99/A77 like forms, instead of starting this race to the bottom (of size). An A77 body with a6300 internals would crush the market and stop overheating & allow for a bigger battery. 

The current form factor that is boring and repetitive from DSLRs/GH4/nx1 is simply because Canon & Nikon have been PERFECTING their designs for camera usability, and they reached a grand maturity of peak design in how you hold the camera push the buttons size balance weight placement of functions menus, a 70+ year-old maturation, tweaking each single button and each inch of body ergonomics to reach what the human hands & mind can use.

This sense is just to explain the sense of me liking DSLRs much more than mirrorless cameras even if I lose the EVF (loup) and peaking (ML/MAGN). Much larger batteries and ability to take a thousand + images is a major importance for me. And I believe anyone who ever used a Canon DSLR with ML knows what perfect usability is, so is Nikons (but to a lesser degree in video uses) 

The rant also explains why I care at all about the Nikon D500 & D5. 

 

 

Let's start with the Nikon D5:

 

The camera is what I and MANY have been waiting for, a Nikon DSLR with 4K video.

Combine the colours with resolution and the FLAT Log mode and I am pretty certain you get an image that's is absolutely gorgeous, completely new level above the rest. It's cinema standard S35 sensor size, ridiculous lowlight, a body that can go where cinema cameras can't (rain/dust/wear), with the popular Nikon F mount, all that gorgeous Nikkor glass we've been adapting to other cameras like Andy's 28-70mm F/2.8 & 80-200mm F/2.8, plus being S35 opens the world of Nikkor APS-C glass. 

So what's not to like? why isn't it being discussed/bought/reviewed? 

It only records 4K in 3 minute bursts. Mic drop. 

Okay, let's accept it and move onto what we can do. Many of us can live with the limit for nature/music/narrative,

The Canon 1DXII HDMI output is 1080p maximum,

while a missing piece we forgot is that, the D5 outputs a UHD, Log, Nikon coloured, S35 image to any external recorder, in 4:2:2 YUV colour sampling and ProRes Codec, so better codec solution than 1DXII really. It can output the live feed until the battery runs out (next month) without heating, it's just the memory card slot heat that's the issue. We rig tiny a7s's with recorders/monitors and this will balance out MUCH better as a cinema rig.

 

 

(A side talk, to give an idea on why Nikon limit it to 3 minutes & why Sony cameras overheat, the comparably built 1DXII (with all that incredibly dense weather sealing), after keeping the 1DXII record 4K 24P for a while, the sales rep got a near-third degree burn just touching the Card compartment! I saw it and literally prescribed him a local cure.)

-To the engineer-oriented-educated ones here I wonder Why the hell does large chip (s35) 4K produce SO MUCH heat and why is Samsung the only company keeping it cool?

 

So isn't it worthy of attention paired with an Assassin/Pix-e5h/q7? It could be a one hell of an image for cinema and surpasses 1DXII DR/RS/codec/who knows, very likely actually produce better images than c100/fs5/1dc. We are judging cameras by specs again even though we KNOW it's utter nonsense.

 

 

 

-Nikon D500

 

The little beast 

 

 

Also what's we've been waiting for, a Nikon SLR with 4K video, Flat LOG, 30min recording, Clean 4K HDMI, tilty touchy screen, tank built, mic & headphones, perfect ergonomics, insane lowlight & DR, 

Only with one issue: 4K is a crop. If our previously dropped mic were up it'd drop again. It's like a Nikon conspiracy to annoy us with ONE bug. 

 

 

But again, aren't we a tiny bit exaggerating the effect? It's still a larger than GH4 pick-up area but with FAR higher dynamic range, noise performance, colour rendition, gradeability, etc not to mention body & stills & staggering speed plus great D5500/D7200 like 1080P S35 mode with super clean 60p.

 

 

 

 

So, I really, really think we should test at least the D500 as it's a target in the 1900/2000$ area we all buy and who knows it might be significantly better than an over-heating, jelloing 4K mirrorless getting all the attention or a GH4, NX1, A7s, These Nikon 4K cameras with the wide DR sensors & Flat profile & noise performance & colour are not to be taken lightly. The D500 in my hands is HOME. I wanted to take it home just for the hold! Very few cameras are sooooo ergonomically built by the inch.

 

Please: 

-Reach out for test drives

-post any footage you can find from these two (especially D500), 

Let's see if it's a pretty image as I anticipate.

 

I am just playing devil's advocate here just to give perspective, not paid by Nikon... though i'd take some if they insist =)

Not sure if its  sensor thing, but handling heat properly seems to be a trick, not everyone can perform. 

After moving to smaller form factors, with smaller lenses, and great video controls at very affordable prices, a lot of people would rather spend the money on Accessories (all sorts of mics, lighting, rigs and stabilizers, etc etc) and maybe even in P&A. Or better still, pick up 2 cameras, one as backup, or 2 used simultaneously to speed up video, especially for things like dialogue, or where you need a B-roll during a guerrilla shoot.

The whole democratization brought about by the Mirrorless revolution is as much about form factor (and weight), as its about affordability. 

Also, apparently, the D5 is more about speed and low light, than dynamic range (and a few other things, I guess). 

http://***URL removed***/news/9402203921/nikon-d5-shows-drop-in-dynamic-range

 

[Jimmy]

Interesting post and echoes alot of my thoughts when this news was met with a luke warm response. As so often is the case, people jump all over the paper specs and flaws without much thought for the potential image quality, ergonomics etc. I'd rather a crop and a beautiful image than FF and poor colour/WB.

Personally, I wont be making another big purchase until we see 10 bit 4:2:2 internal (or raw)... But if I were in the market for a 4K shooting hybrid, the D500 first and foremost on my "to test" list.

[Andrew Reid]

I hear the D5 may have the 3 min limit for 4K recording removed before release.

But even then I question why you would not instead get a 1D X Mark II at that price, given the Dual Pixel AF and a lens mount which takes more than just one or two kinds of lenses.

The D500 would have been perfect if they had avoided the huge crop... NX500 style crop for $2k? No thanks.

[Guest Ebrahim Saadawi]

It is pretty bigger than NX500 @Andrew Reid 

It's a 3840x2160 crop off a 20.2mp sensor vs a 30.3mp one (yes it's that much pixels for shading on the Sammy's APS-C sensor space) 

The NX500 is about the exactly 1 inch size, 2.73x crop. The D500 is a 2.15 crop, so pretty much m43s/gh4. 

I do love the S35 look though and hate the m43s look especally when it's cropping lenses designed for S35/FF as Nikon mount. So dull and flat. 

[dahlfors]

Here's a comparison of 4k high iso on A7R II and D5:

 

[Nikkor]

8 minutes ago, dahlfors said:

Here's a comparison of 4k high iso on A7R II and D5:

 

Worst test ever, but until iso 200.000 the nikon looks better to me (as far as one can tell with the shitty focus).

[dahlfors]

Yep. The noise level looks excellent up until ISO 50k, and quite usable up until ISO 200k.

[jhnkng]

Just today I was working on a job where I shot the D750 as B camera and I was really really surprised how well it handled the task. And looking at the footage we shot this arvo it looked really nice.

I have a D750 for stills, but I'd always shot motion on the GH4, and while the GH4 has lots of video specific features that are really useful, I didn't miss any of them at all while shooting. So much so that I'm now wondering whether I should just sell my whole m43 kit and hire if I need something more than what the Nikon can do. And it makes me look at the D500 in a whole new light -- I'm not at all phased by the 2.2x crop (compared to full frame) in 4K, I shot a lot on native m43 lenses anyway and it never really bothered me. I have the Tokina 11-16 (which I love for video) for wides, and the extra crop actually helps me since I like to shoot longer for a lot of the work I do.

I'm actually a little bit excited by Nikon for the first time in ages, and I've shot Nikon for stills for the last 7 years!

[IronFilm]

Quote

 

> "An Electronic VR option has been added to the MOVIE SHOOTING MENU. "

 

Damn! Canon has never ever had this feature in their DSLRs?

http://nikonrumors.com/2016/06/23/major-nikon-d5-firmware-update-version-1-10-now-available.aspx/

[Nikkor]

4K 30minutes now, the problem was the 4GB FAT limit (don't ask me why the d500 doesn't do that)

The camera can now record movies up to 29 minutes and 59 seconds long. Movies are recorded across up to 8 files, each up to 4 GB size, which can be joined together using the ViewNX-Movie Editor option in ViewNX-i version 1.2.0 or later. *