Bukker Posted March 29, 2016 Share Posted March 29, 2016 Hi I build since 3 years drones for aerial footage and for agriculture applications. This January I bought the Sony RX10 II. I thought this would be a nice upgrade compared to the A6000. After 3 month of testing I’m really frustrated, it’s not possible to get a good video image out of the RX10II. There are a lot of very strange artefacts in the image. Sometimes it looks, that the camera is for a short time out of focus. In the meantime I have tested nearly every possible setting (image stabilizer on/off, manual focus/auto focus, different frame rates, 4k, fullhd, NTCS,/PAL…) The problem still exists. If I remove the RX10II and put the A6000 in the same gimbal, the footage looks perfect. Also with other cameras like the blackmagic pocket cinema camera the image is perfect. I emailed Sony, but I didn’t get an answer on this case. So I thought probably someone here can help me (or have a good connection to Sony :-) ) In the dropbox folder there are videos from yesterday. The C0051.mp4 is from the Sony A6000 and the C0062.mp4 is from the Sony RX10II https://www.dropbox.com/sh/l9a65apchqbue33/AABA94gS8xV16udDQLHeTzNga?dl=0 Now I’m curious if somebody have an idea or better a solution for this problem :-) Many thanks in advance Michael BTW, here are some A6000 examples: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronFilm Posted March 30, 2016 Share Posted March 30, 2016 I'd go with a Nikon DL18-50 for aerial video instead Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmcindie Posted March 30, 2016 Share Posted March 30, 2016 A LOT of vibration in the RX10 shot. You need a better gimbal system. Try turning off the steadyshot on the rx10 if that is somehow going awry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronFilm Posted March 30, 2016 Share Posted March 30, 2016 Yeah, you need a gimbal that probably is a similar weight to the camera itself to do it properly! Which adds up to a lot of weight in total! I really would not fly an RX10, an RX100 would be just about as good but much lighter. Every gram counts! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bukker Posted March 30, 2016 Author Share Posted March 30, 2016 Hi Thanks for your help. For me it's strange, the gimbal works perfect with the lighter A6000 and also with the much heavier blackmagic pocket setup. The A6000 weights with glass around 750g, The RX10II around 850g and the BMPCC is above 1kg. For my experience the 100g weight difference can not be the reason for this behavior. Keep in mind, the BMPCC works perfect. I will do another test with steadyshot off. I mount yesterday a Gopro above the RX10II in the gimbal. If the GoPro have the same problems it must be a gimbal problem. If not it's clearly a RX10II problem @IronFilm. We have nearly no weigh limitation in Switzerland :-) I can build and fly 20kg drone without special permission. But I agree, the RX100 is the better choice for drone footage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronFilm Posted March 30, 2016 Share Posted March 30, 2016 It could be to do with the weight distribution, I bet the RX10 is longer and more spread out, while the BMPCC/A6000 with a pancake lens would be far far more compact (and easier on the gimbal). Envious of your liberal flying laws in Switzerland! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bukker Posted March 30, 2016 Author Share Posted March 30, 2016 yes, that was also my first idea when I get in touch with those strange problems. But I don't use pancake lens, the A6000 is equipped with the 16-70mm Zeiss Vario Tessar and the BMPCC with the Metabones Speed Boster+Sigma 17-50mm F2,8 EX DC OS HSM. I also use a lens support to avoid that the lens can shake in the gimbal.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzynormal Posted March 30, 2016 Share Posted March 30, 2016 1 hour ago, Bukker said: yes, that was also my first idea when I get in touch with those strange problems. But I don't use pancake lens, the A6000 is equipped with the 16-70mm Zeiss Vario Tessar and the BMPCC with the Metabones Speed Boster+Sigma 17-50mm F2,8 EX DC OS HSM. I also use a lens support to avoid that the lens can shake in the gimbal.. How is the camera mount point in relation to the center of gravity on the three different cameras? Since you're flying other cams without the problem, it's not the total weight that's an issue. However, it may certainly be how the weight is balanced --or improperly balanced. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bukker Posted March 30, 2016 Author Share Posted March 30, 2016 sooo, I did the test with the Gopro. Now it's clear, it's not a gimbal problem, it's a RX10II problem. The Gopro footage looks smooth while the RX10II looks partially really terrible. The big question is: is it lens related, is the sensor related, or something else? I hope someone from Sony can give a statement on this. This would help a lot of customers the choose the right camera for aerial shots. I upload the comparison between the RX10II and the GoPro later. BTW, this is my test setup: Ivanhurba 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bukker Posted March 31, 2016 Author Share Posted March 31, 2016 Here is the proof: It seems to be a RX10II problem... :-( Now I'm definitely depressed... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzynormal Posted March 31, 2016 Share Posted March 31, 2016 Maybe if you have any sort of stabilization turned on inside the Sony cam, turn it off? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bukker Posted April 1, 2016 Author Share Posted April 1, 2016 I double checked if everything is turned of. No stabilization and manual focus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmcindie Posted April 1, 2016 Share Posted April 1, 2016 Maybe the lens is vibrating inside the body? The rx10 ii is not very well built. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bukker Posted April 1, 2016 Author Share Posted April 1, 2016 I also believe it's the lens.... If the camera is turned off you can clearly feel that something wobble inside the camera... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmcindie Posted April 1, 2016 Share Posted April 1, 2016 That's probably the stabilization unit. Those things wobble in stabilized zoom lenses too when you shake them around so I'm not 100% sure it's that... But yeah, something is wobblying somewhere. You probably used prime lenses on the other cameras, not zooms? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bukker Posted April 1, 2016 Author Share Posted April 1, 2016 no, I use also zoom lens... I know a prime lens would be the better choice, but I didn't got problems like this so far... On the A6000 I use the Vario-Tessar® T* E 16 - 70 mm F4 ZA OSS without problems. But If you turn or shake the lens you don't feel any wobble like the RX10II.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ebrahim Saadawi Posted April 1, 2016 Share Posted April 1, 2016 Definitely a problem with the 24-200mm RX10 lens. Very likely the Stabilization lens element is vibrating in correctly even when in IS OFF. I highly believe turning on Stabilization would help in these vibrations wouldn't it?? Remember the Sonys have Optical stabiliztion and Digital stabilization and WTF-6532 Stabilization Steadymodeshot not just one so turn them all off/on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bukker Posted April 1, 2016 Author Share Posted April 1, 2016 Yes, I did also flights with stabilization On. But the result was nearly the same. As you can see, the picture looks like its out of focus for a short time. This is not the normal behavior when a gimbal is bad tuned. So it must be a problem with the lens like you said. It's too bad that I can't change the lens.... My conclusion: never buy a camera without interchangeable lenses :-D I would be interested what Sony say about the problem.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bukker Posted April 5, 2016 Author Share Posted April 5, 2016 The Swiss Sony support was so kind to give me an answer to me issue.... But I believe their people don't know what they talking about... Absolutely no technical understanding in my opinion. They told me that the RX10II wasn't optimized for drone application. The image stabilizer can't eliminate all vibration during the flight...I should use their actioncam. Great joke but a few days too late, we got april 1st last week :-) I think nearly no camera is optimized for drone applications, except the new blackmagic micro cinema camera and the DJI stuff. They give me absolutely no technical information about this issue... I still don't know if it's lens related, sensor related or what ever. Can't believe this. Sony seems to have one of the worst customer service... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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