Quicktime support for Windows terminated?

[bluefonia]

3 hours ago, cantsin said:

The problem is that "player" does not only refer to the QuickTime Player app, but to the playback component that most Windows NLEs (including Premiere, Avid, Edius, AE, Resolve, Vegas) use for loading and playing back .mov files.

According to several technical clever people at fcp.co, the drop of Windows Quicktime support affects only browsers, - not NLE playback.

[cantsin]

Well, these fcp.co forum guys must have insights that nobody else in the industry has, including Adobe (with its recent press release that they're working on a complete replacement of CC's Quicktime dependency because of the security issue)... - Also, fcp.co is not exactly objective or non-partisan in matters related to Apple.

[DBounce]

2 hours ago, cantsin said:

Well, these fcp.co forum guys must have insights that nobody else in the industry has, including Adobe (with its recent press release that they're working on a complete replacement of CC's Quicktime dependency because of the security issue)... - Also, fcp.co is not exactly objective or non-partisan in matters related to Apple.

He'said right. If using prores with Adobe CC in Windows you need QuickTime. Does FCP have a Windows version? Is FCP Adobe CC? Seems someone went to the wrong forum.

[Don Kotlos]

The fact remains: If you use Resolve and don't have QT you are screwed. 

I installed Resolve 12.5 and it will not see any of my videos. Totally useless. Is there a setting that I am missing? Is BM aware of this? If anyone goes to NAB can they ask them? 

 

[Damphousse]

I'm surprised.  I thought this topic would elicit a lot more replies.

Apple is thoroughly unprofessional.  I guess that's what we get for relying on a smartphone company for pro video support.  I own a BMPCC so I really don't have any options unless I want to shoot in RAW 100% of the time... which I most certainly do not.

I can't tell you how many times I've seen someone request demand Prores as an in camera codec on this forum.  Well those days are over.  Nice job crapple.

[cantsin]

5 hours ago, Don Kotlos said:

The fact remains: If you use Resolve and don't have QT you are screwed. 

That depends on your personal workflow though and the footage you're working with. If you record CinemaDNG, RedRaw... and render to, say, DNxHD/HR in MXF, you'll be fine.

[Don Kotlos]

3 minutes ago, cantsin said:

That depends on your personal workflow though and the footage you're working with. If you record CinemaDNG, RedRaw... and render to, say, DNxHD/HR in MXF, you'll be fine.

I am telling you I cannot even see my mp4 videos! 

Have you tried it and it works? How did you do it? 

[cantsin]

2 hours ago, Damphousse said:

Apple is thoroughly unprofessional.

The other side of the coin is that Adobe, Avid, Grass Valley, Sony and Blackmagic have been thoroughly unprofessional, too, by relying on a piece of software that's only listed as compatible with Windows up to Windows 7. All these companies have released NLE/postproduction software for Windows 8, 8.1 and 10 relying on a component that never has been officially compatible with these operating systems.

8 minutes ago, Don Kotlos said:

I am telling you I cannot even see my mp4 videos! 

Have you tried it and it works? How did you do it? 

Yeah, I know - but I happen to use Resolve only for the CinemaDNG footage from my BM Pocket, and I always render to MXF (and only from there to delivery formats like mp4 with ffmpeg which only uses its own codec libraries). So I can actually work in Resolve without Quicktime. But I'm fully aware that this won't be the case for maybe 95% of people. I just tried to relativize your statement "If you use Resolve and don't have QT you are screwed" a (little) bit.

[jax_rox]

4 hours ago, Damphousse said:

Apple is thoroughly unprofessional.  I guess that's what we get for relying on a smartphone company for pro video support.  I own a BMPCC so I really don't have any options unless I want to shoot in RAW 100% of the time... which I most certainly do not.

I can't tell you how many times I've seen someone request demand Prores as an in camera codec on this forum.  Well those days are over.  Nice job crapple.

Apple isn't unprofessional. They just own a computer company, and see no particular reason in developing for the competition. Windows also don't develop players for .avi and .wmv for Apple computers. The only real difference is that .mov and Quicktime has become so ubiquitous and industry standard, particularly with ProRes, but also H.264, mp4 etc. etc.

I would suggest that there's a larger majority of people are using Apple for their post workflows - certainly, I'm more likely to see Apple or Linux in post houses and workflows than Windows (unless we're talking 3D and some VFX).

Why not just disable the browser plug-ins? There's a lot of sensationalism going around about this, when the reality is, you would have to interact with a malicious file for it to cause issue. Anything from your camera, or that you create through encoding/transcoding is not going to be malicious unless you design it to be (and why would you design a malicious file to attack your own computer?)

As long as you keep your Windows QT usage limited to your own files, or I guess ones that can be trusted (i.e. client footage where they have a vested interest in not taking down your computer) I can't see why this would be that big an issue.

I also can't see ProRes going away anytime soon, so..

[Damphousse]

1 hour ago, cantsin said:

The other side of the coin is that Adobe, Avid, Grass Valley, Sony and Blackmagic have been thoroughly unprofessional, too, by relying on a piece of software that's only listed as compatible with Windows up to Windows 7. All these companies have released NLE/postproduction software for Windows 8, 8.1 and 10 relying on a component that never has been officially compatible with these operating systems.

You know full well any NLE that was incompatible with Prores would be DOA.  Apple got everyone to build their product around their codec and then ripped the rug out from under them.  And FYI the BMPCC was only announced a few months after Windows 8 was generally available.  And we know how production machines are.  People stay with tried and true OSes for YEARS after a new OS is out to wait for a SP or two to remove bugs and achieve polish and stability.  My production machine is still on Windows 7.  So your argument is meaningless for me and many people out there.

[jax_rox]

The point of Avid's AVE is that it is not dependant upon Quicktime. The issue for Avid is that AMA Link is more common these days, which can be dependant upon Quicktime. If you import your files instead of AMA linking them into Avid, they will transcode into .mxf

[Damphousse]

5 minutes ago, jax_rox said:

Apple isn't unprofessional. They just own a computer company, and see no particular reason in developing for the competition. Windows also don't develop players for .avi and .wmv for Apple computers. The only real difference is that .mov and Quicktime has become so ubiquitous and industry standard, particularly with ProRes, but also H.264, mp4 etc. etc.

 

Yeah, that difference is kind of the point.  And there are way more Windows machines out there than Macs.  And who cares about .wmv?  I'm talking about an industry standard.  Good luck having people trust you to be the developer of an industry standard.

 

Quote

Adobe sees 45% sales growth for Mac video tools after Final Cut Pro X exodus

http://appleinsider.com/articles/11/09/08/adobe_sees_45_sales_growth_for_mac_video_tools_after_final_cut_x_exodus

They really have a habit of shooting themselves in the foot.  If you are going to be an industry standard don't just drop critical features or support entirely with no warning.

[jax_rox]

2 minutes ago, Damphousse said:

Yeah, that difference is kind of the point.  And there are way more Windows machines out there than Macs.  And who cares about .wmv?  I'm talking about an industry standard.  Good luck having people trust you to be the developer of an industry standard.

Apple have no particular reason to continue development though for Windows, other than to keep you happy. What purpose is it to keep you, who won't buy their products, but relies on a free piece of software developed by them, happy?

You seem to have reading comprehension issues. I'm not saying we should care about .wmv. I'm saying Windows never developed an Apple player for .avi or .wmv, so why hold it against Apple when they stop doing it for Quicktime? .avi was a pseudo standard, and it was a right pain to work with on an Apple. You had to transcode. What's different about this situation?

17 minutes ago, Damphousse said:

http://appleinsider.com/articles/11/09/08/adobe_sees_45_sales_growth_for_mac_video_tools_after_final_cut_x_exodus

They really have a habit of shooting themselves in the foot.  If you are going to be an industry standard don't just drop critical features or support entirely with no warning.

Yeah, but FCPX saw a massive increase of sales. Significantly more than they could ever sell with FCS at the price and market it was aimed at. Also, those who went to Adobe didn't necessarily change their OS and computer systems. In fact, considering the price of doing so, I imagine there would be very few who did.

Apple are ruthless business people. It doesn't make much business sense to spend man hours developing QT for Windows for no gain, just as it obviously made more sense to create an iMovie step-up that vloggers, pro-sumers and professionals could step up from iMove into, at a cheap cost ($300). Whilst it really put out a number of industry pros who were using it on a daily basis, Apple have continued to see growth - and if you're a vlogger who can buy an Apple and step up into a 'pro' program like Final Cut Pro easily, why would you buy a 'crappy, boring' PC, when you cuold have a 'shiny, beautiful' Mac?

Don't get me wrong, I was pissed off about it too. I went to the launch of Final Cut Server, and really thought Apple were more loyal to their pro customer base. I understand it though, from as business perspective.

They did the exact same thing with Logic Pro. It's now more of a 'souped-up' version of Garage Band, and also similarly cheap. The business model is working for them

[Cinegain]

It's not about doing nothing, it's about doing something and giving up. Like Samsung's NX-line. Except then they get told they should throw their cameras away.

You know... they still accept your monies for the PC Pro version: http://www.apple.com/shop/product/D3381Z/A/quicktime-7-pro-for-windows .

[jax_rox]

18 minutes ago, Cinegain said:

It's not about doing nothing, it's about doing something and giving up.

They're not giving up. They're forcing you to buy an Apple if you want full QT support. That's actually pretty much Apple. Final Cut was, and is, so cheap because it forces you to buy an Apple.

ProRes isn't going away, and a post house who wants to be able to have an efficient workflow with it will need to upgrade to Apple, if they haven't already. Seems like a smart business move to me.

Is it annoying and frustrating? Yes. Can I see the logic in it? Yes.

But then it doesn't really affect me... I bought my first Mac in '08 so I could get FCP (hey, isn't that what they wanted?) and haven't moved back over to PC since. Am I a perfect Apple story? Sure. Am I alone? Not by a long shot.

My alternative was to buy/build a PC that would have been almost as expensive, and then buy $10k Avid hardware.

As it was, I got my Mac and Final Cut for ~$3-4k? Sounds like a great deal to me...

[Cinegain]

The only Mac I'll consider buying is a big one from McDonalds.

[Axel]

9 hours ago, Damphousse said:

Apple got everyone to build their product around their codec and then ripped the rug out from under them.

They officially stopped support (which in Apples understanding means no further development) FIVE YEARS ago. They occasionally updated some securtiy protocols, that was the extend of it. There was an old rug. They said it wouldn't carry. They ripped nothing. They just watched the competitors trample on the rug. Neither did they pull a plug. They just did nothing.

Adobe seems to have done some homework. In their official statement, it sounds as if no QT was needed to read (i.E.) ProRes or other movs. And why should it? Many companies have their own, proprietary codecs, and wasn't it always Adobes pride to support those without need for plugins (what IS that QT actually, as far as ProRes is concerned?)?

9 hours ago, Damphousse said:

They really have a habit of shooting themselves in the foot.  If you are going to be an industry standard don't just drop critical features or support entirely with no warning.

How about five years notice? Ciritical features? Anybody uses QT player? On Windows machines, I see a lot of those orange-white traffic cones, no blue "Q". Guess what: on OSX you see them too. Drop? As I see it, to drop something you must have held it before.

[bluefonia]

17 hours ago, DBounce said:

He'said right. If using prores with Adobe CC in Windows you need QuickTime. Does FCP have a Windows version? Is FCP Adobe CC? Seems someone went to the wrong forum.

@Axel said, - quote:

"Adobe seems to have done some homework. In their official statement, it sounds as if no QT was needed to read (i.E.) ProRes or other movs. And why should it? Many companies have their own, proprietary codecs, and wasn't it always Adobes pride to support those without need for plugins (what IS that QT actually, as far as ProRes is concerned?)?"

 

Quote

@DBounce: "Seems someone went to the wrong forum."

Not everyone is  religious about the gear they use :-)

[jgharding]

Leave it installed for now, you'll be fine.

the current vulnerabilities are in the player, which no one uses, Adobe software and so on uses other components. So even Install QuickTime and just rename the exe for the player or delete it if you like.

all the software vendors will create workarounds, I fact everything has been a workaround for years because there's no 64 -bit qt for Windows.

ive been moving away from QT for years because of this looming issue, using DNXHD MFX OP1 (catchy name) for master exports and so on.

but you will need it installed to work with QT formats, so there's no point blindly following instructions and removing it, just think it through.

theyre now obliged to make it all native or likely start losing users 

its a shame software vendors buried their heads for so long...

[cantsin]

16 minutes ago, jgharding said:

the current vulnerabilities are in the player, which no one uses, Adobe software and so on uses other components. 

Unfortunately, this is not true. The vulnerabilities are in the player component which Adobe & Co. use for most playback and rendering of Quicktime-based formats.