Commercial Movie Success

[HelsinkiZim]

Like most people I have been spotting trends in what makes a movie successful these days.

It seems like scores from review aggregates like Rotten Tomatoes and Metacritic can kill a movie dead in its tracks, straight to HDrip. The only hope a movie has of beating bad reviews is by hammering us with marketing for about 2 years, and this seems to only work for movies with big budgets like Batman vs Superman Dawn of Justice with loyal followings. Independent films with bad reviews seem to have no chance, even with cult success these days.

Are all films these days stillborn without good reviews in tandem?

Is there any point to making independent films with the odds of success worse than putting it all on black in some random casino in Vegas?

Chances are probably better playing your local lottery and staying at home all day, no?

[MattH]

Democracy of film making sadly also comes along with democracy of film viewing.  There is just so much content out there that who is going to care about your movie enough to pay to watch it? And who is going to care enough to pay to make it.  Evidently batman vs superman is the level of moronity you need to delve to get people to come to the cinema and pay a rediculous price.  When you see previously A-list stars do TV, netflix and comercials, you know the game has changed.

[jcs]

Getting people to watch and love your movie is easy. Simply make a great movie. This will result in the movie getting shared (word of mouth, link via email, text, Facebook, Twitter, etc.), and if the viral coefficient is greater than 1.0, the movie has a chance to become exponentially popular and thus successful ("viral").

 

[enny]

if you are in it for the money and fame you are doing it wrong

[Policar]

5 hours ago, Zach Goodwin said:

Okay now I am beginning to sound like a conspiracy theorist... GOING BACK TO REALITY. What I meant to say is simply this. A panavision is sharp at T/1 just as much as a Canon Cine Lens at T/5.6 so that gives cinematographers leg room in lighting. Now why expensive cameras? Same reason, more leg room with dynamic range and a lot of others.

 

What I am trying to tell people is that they don't need to worry about that leg room, because I am like them with my DSLR still.

Also guys if you have a way sharper than normal lens than most people, you do know you have more flexibility at F/1.4 or F/1 than most other lenses would. Hence why people use terms like "wide open." However where gear matters is the amount of flexibility you get with the depth of field at F/1.4 in comparison to others.

The one person with any sense on this forum (even if Primos are actually t1.9). 

Everyone else should bow down to this wisdom, even if it's bereft of detailed accurate tech specs. What matters is the wisdom and thoughtfulness, which we lose in the fast-paced digital era in favor of looking at resolution lines on a brick wall. (Citizen Brick Wall and Brickwalsablanca and Wizard of Resolution Chart never got far in the box office or among critics.)

Exactly. 100%. 

[MattH]

39 minutes ago, Policar said:

The one person with any sense on this forum (even if Primos are actually t1.9). 

Everyone else should bow down to this wisdom, even if it's bereft of detailed accurate tech specs. What matters is the wisdom and thoughtfulness, which we lose in the fast-paced digital era in favor of looking at resolution lines on a brick wall. (Citizen Brick Wall and Brickwalsablanca and Wizard of Resolution Chart never got far in the box office or among critics.)

Exactly. 100%. 

The op isn't even talking about equipment.

[Raafi Rivero]

18 hours ago, HelsinkiZim said:

Is there any point to making independent films with the odds of success worse than putting it all on black in some random casino in Vegas

Your motivation for making films, especially independent films, can't be solely about profit. Your passion to tell stories must be at the core of why you do this work. Otherwise go be a dentist. People will always be willing to have their teeth fixed. Willing to pay for art? Not so much.

As far as making a living as a filmmaker there are several options downstream from big budget Hollywood director. Those options become less and less appealing by the time you get to something like "Briss videographer", but they exist.

As far as cutting through the clutter and achieving mainstream, critical, and financial success? Those projects are rare birds indeed. It's why filmmakers idolize people like Tarantino, Kevin Smith, and Steven Soderbergh. Because they did it.  As JCS said earlier in the thread, you simply have to make an exceptional film. 

I can remember seeing Christopher Nolan's Memento in a theater. No big stars, just a phenomenally interesting concept executed at the highest level. The trajectory from there to Inception was not guaranteed, but the promise was certainly there from the beginning. Keep working. Get better. Find your level. I'm pulling for you.

[M Carter]

The OP seems to be musing about some magic formula. Film execs have been thinking the same thing since the 20's. The answer is, "there isn't one". Good stories, powerfully told and technically well-crafted often die. Meanwhile, there's a huge audience for (what I feel anyway) is pure crap. (I have no clue why every movie now has a "marvel" logo and adults go to see superhero films by the millions. I love me some "escapist" entertainment, but I got my limits!!!) 

One big differentiator is a hook or gimmick - Blair Witch for instance - some hated it but I found it a decent flick and very, very "new" at the time. That "Tangerine" flick, filmed on the iPhone - that got people curious, and many reviewers felt it was a very good film (and that the iPhone's particular color rendering actually worked and wasn't just a gimmick). Having something that gets your film talked about can help. But "new" or unique is very hard in this era.

A lot of it is likely pure luck, or the luck of catching the eye of someone with connections or a "voice" that gets heard in the media or whatever - someone that champions the work and starts things snowballing.

The key - if you want to do this for a living - is make compelling content in a way that you won't lose a lot (or any) money. So you can go on to the next one vs. bankruptcy. Many people are succeeding at that as well.

[M Carter]

And I'll add - look at the buzz for "The Witch", produced on the cheap by Hollywood standards. The buzz was "truly scary, cerebral horror, Kubrickian, verisimilitude, obsessive production design, amazing child performance" and so on. All that shit perked me right the hell up (haven't seen it yet though, but will in the next few days). That's just what i want - a grown-up horror flick that actually scares me at a deep level. Hell, the "Prometheus" trailers had people saying "the next 2001", but what looked amazing in the trailers was a film that was just insulting to anyone with a brain. 

So what do I want in a genre film? Real characters that I care about - and a sense of awe of the unknown. In horror or sci fi, that's what's missing to me - I think we want to be awed by our fears and by the unknown and by the "great mysteries of life" and so on. I do anyway, apparently the "young audience" just wants gore and jumps scares. 

So what I should do is make the film that doesn't exist for me and pray I'm not alone in these deep, almost subconscious reactions or desires. Make the film I'd see five times - I haven't loved many films in quite some time, especially not genre films. (man, I did love "Black Dynamite" and "Hedwig", but it's easier to make me laugh than to make me awed).

I do a lot of marketing work for small business and I think of "the invisible hole in the market" - the product or service that, the minute it's introduced, is instantly accepted as "why didn't i think of that??" The product that makes people realize they've always needed it and just didn't know it. Remember the iPhone launch - when you first saw visual voicemail? (OK, you young kids assume the iPhone always existed, right?) That feature alone was a stunner - anyone remember how long it could take to plow through your voicemail? 

So maybe think of that for filmmaking or writing. What story do you want to be told? How does it look and feel? What films started out exciting you (or their marketing excited you) and you lefty disappointed? Why did that happen to you? Why not to others?

If you want to be a businessman, look at the data and demographics and plug it all into a computer. if you want to be an artist, make art for you first. If the art you want to make seems obscure and niche-market, spend at that level. If it seems blockbuster - still spend at that level for your first go-round.