Sony FS5 firmware update version 2.0 - FS RAW costs $600 / 500 euros

[Don Kotlos]

5 minutes ago, MattH said:

Can anyone confirm whether all you will need for this is the paid firmware update and an external recorder? So you wouldn't also need an interface unit like you do with the FS700 and FS7?

It looks like it:

[MattH]

Cool.  That answers the question nicely.  For those that cant see the picture for any reason:  The FS7 directly outputs 4k bitstream data via 3G-SDI that can be interpreted by a compatible recorder, as long as you have the CBKZ-FS5RIF firmware update.

[Nick Hughes]

It would be nice if there was some competition in the raw recorder field. I'd love to be able to use a 5" monitor/recorder for FSRAW (though I understand why it would be technically tricky to build such a product).

[cpc]

1 hour ago, MattH said:

Can anyone confirm whether all you will need for this is the paid firmware update and an external recorder? So you wouldn't also need an interface unit like you do with the FS700 and FS7?

You don't need an interface unit with the fs700, only with the fs7.

9 hours ago, Ebrahim Saadawi said:

Believe it or not It's the same 4096x2160 s35 sensor in all these cameras.

So when shooting in RAW they all give the same output, but are differentiated in their image quality by their internal codecs (24mbps AVCHD on the FS700, 8bit 4:2:0 XAVC-L on FS5, 10bit 4:2:2 XAVC-I on the FS7, and the F5 kind of internal raw as it integrates with the recorder. However the F5 and F55 have a 16bit colour depth output to the Sony R5 recorder while the FS700/FS5/FS7 are 12bit to note. 

Fot whatever reason there is different processing on the FS7 raw. FS700 raw is denser. FS5 raw better be similar to the FS700.

[Oliver Daniel]

5 hours ago, Nick Hughes said:

It would be nice if there was some competition in the raw recorder field. I'd love to be able to use a 5" monitor/recorder for FSRAW (though I understand why it would be technically tricky to build such a product).

I've been hoping for this. Seems kind HD of backwards putting a 7Q on the FS5, then again I'm perfectly happy with my 5" Sony monitor on the A7SII hotshoe. 

Mite a shame the FS5 can't have XAVC-I internal. XAVC-L is poor in comparison. 

Looking forward to some FS5 RAW stuff! 

[BenEricson]

6 hours ago, MattH said:

Can anyone confirm whether all you will need for this is the paid firmware update and an external recorder? So you wouldn't also need an interface unit like you do with the FS700 and FS7?

You don't need it as long as the recorder can pull the raw signal. You will probably will be able to do 24p/4k/10 bit with the 4k video assist or the shogun, but the high frame rates will require the 7Q with sony firmware unlocked... That would be my guess at least.

[Phil A]

49 minutes ago, BenEricson said:

You don't need it as long as the recorder can pull the raw signal. You will probably will be able to do 24p/4k/10 bit with the 4k video assist or the shogun, but the high frame rates will require the 7Q with sony firmware unlocked... That would be my guess at least.

Afaik so far only the Odyssey7Q+ and the Shogun (with announced firmware update or is it out yet?) do raw. Neither the Blackmagic Design VideoAssist nor Video Devices PIX-E recorders are announced to do it.

[Andrew Reid]

You won't need the expensive Sony recorder for raw, image above shows a direct branch from the camera's port to the Odyssey, OR a direct connection to the Sony AXS. You can use either.

[BenEricson]

1 hour ago, Phil A said:

Afaik so far only the Odyssey7Q+ and the Shogun (with announced firmware update or is it out yet?) do raw. Neither the Blackmagic Design VideoAssist nor Video Devices PIX-E recorders are announced to do it.

My mistake, I am just talking about Pro Res HQ/4k. I know people get excited about RAW but Pro Res is really amazing without all the fuss...'

Will this send 4k out of HDMI or SDI? If only HDMI, it leaves the first 7Q out.

[Phil A]

11 minutes ago, BenEricson said:

My mistake, I am just talking about Pro Res HQ/4k. I know people get excited about RAW but Pro Res is really amazing without all the fuss...'

Will this send 4k out of HDMI or SDI? If only HDMI, it leaves the first 7Q out.

I think the HDMI out is the same 'meh' 8bit 4k 4:2:2 like the Alpha cameras so no real advantage of the scale as raw or 10bit ProRes.

EDIT: I just rechecked and I'm not sure. Did it get external 4k 10bit 4:2:2 via a firmware update separate from the "to be paid for" raw update?

[Don Kotlos]

5 minutes ago, BenEricson said:

My mistake, I am just talking about Pro Res HQ/4k. I know people get excited about RAW but Pro Res is really amazing without all the fuss...'

Prores is currently the least useful codec since it is defunct for the majority of the market. 

[TheRenaissanceMan]

22 minutes ago, Don Kotlos said:

Prores is currently the least useful codec since it is defunct for the majority of the market. 

Lol what? Last I heard, ProRes is still the industry standard and a big reason the Alexa workflow is so popular.

[jax_rox]

49 minutes ago, Don Kotlos said:

Prores is currently the least useful codec since it is defunct for the majority of the market. 

Er.... what are you talking about?

You know the Arri Alexa and Amira still record ProRes ? Don't see many of them around lately, hey... oh wait.

[Don Kotlos]

36 minutes ago, TheRenaissanceMan said:

Lol what? Last I heard, ProRes is still the industry standard and a big reason the Alexa workflow is so popular.

 

9 minutes ago, jax_rox said:

Er.... what are you talking about?

You know the Arri Alexa and Amira still record ProRes ? Don't see many of them around lately, hey... oh wait.

Well since quicktime is not supported and there are critical bugs, it is advisable to remove it  (even adobe urges users to uninstall it) after which prores does not work in Windows anymore.

By the way, there is an industry standard and it is Cineform

[jax_rox]

 

.

[TheRenaissanceMan]

21 minutes ago, Don Kotlos said:

 

Well since quicktime is not supported and there are critical bugs, it is advisable to remove it  (even adobe urges users to uninstall it) after which prores does not work in Windows anymore.

By the way, there is an industry standard and it is Cineform

Except on Apple machines, which like 70% of the industry uses, and Windows 7, which accounts for another 29%.

[jax_rox]

25 minutes ago, TheRenaissanceMan said:

Except on Apple machines, which like 70% of the industry uses, and Windows 7, which accounts for another 29%.

For the small proportion of people who aren't using Apple/supported devices, I don't see why it's so difficult to transcode to something else if they're that concerned about it.

 

48 minutes ago, Don Kotlos said:

By the way, there is an industry standard and it is Cineform

Industry standard for what? Capture? Please point me in the direction of a (non-GoPro) camera that captures in Cineform?

Delivery? Intermediary? 

I would suggest that Cineform can not be an industry standard if the majority of people are using ProRes instead of it. I've also never seen anything delivered in Cineform. I have seen deliverables in H.264, ProRes, Jpeg2000, depending on where they're going. I've received masters in ProRes and .dpx files 

Never Cineform. Maybe it's a regional thing.

[Don Kotlos]

1 hour ago, TheRenaissanceMan said:

Except on Apple machines, which like 70% of the industry uses, and Windows 7, which accounts for another 29%.

I see you present these percentages with great confidence. Do you have a source for these numbers? 

The only percentages that I could find is the ones about Mac having less than 10% of the operating system market here. 

Also as far as the NLE goes only ~20% is the mac specific FCP and ~14% is the PC specific SVP from here. So you are telling me that  >80% of premiere users use Mac. Yeah right. (Don't forget that resolve only recently became really a usable NLE system). 

But whatever it seems that you missed the point that I wanted to make about lack of prores support for many users and instead decided to be condescending. Good for you. 

1 hour ago, jax_rox said:

Industry standard for what? Capture? 

For video acquisition and post production. It is from the Society of Motion Picture & Television Engineers.

[TheRenaissanceMan]

3 minutes ago, Don Kotlos said:

I see you present these percentages with great confidence. Do you have a source for these numbers? 

The only percentages that I could find is the ones about Mac having less than 10% of the operating system market here. 

Also as far as the NLE goes only ~20% is the mac specific FCP and ~14% is the PC specific SVP from here. So you are telling me that  >80% of premiere users use Mac. Yeah right. (Don't forget that resolve only recently became really a usable NLE system). 

But whatever it seems that you missed the point that I wanted to make about lack of prores support for many users and instead decided to be condescending. Good for you. 

Yikes, man. I think you're missing the point.

The only machines--THE ONLY ONES--that lack ProRes support are Windows 10. How much of the industry do you imagine has gone to Windows 10? No, I do not have hard numbers in front of me (can't imagine how you interpret a percentage with "like" in front of it as "with great confidence"), but my educated guess would be very few. Yet the number of cameras with ProRes is growing, and the insanely popular Arri Alexa is widely used in part because of its fantastic ProRes workflow. 

I'm not sure where you work regionally, but it seems to me that ProRes is widespread and here to stay.

[jax_rox]

11 minutes ago, Don Kotlos said:

So you are telling me that  >80% of premiere users use Mac. Yeah right. (Don't forget that resolve only recently became really a usable NLE system). 

You have no way of backing up your claim that any percentage of Premiere users are on a PC. Nor do you have any figures for Mac usage. 'Yeah right' doesn't constitute factual evidence. 

I'm just saying, the breakdown could easily be 50-50, 70-30, or anything. Saying that Premiere is available on PC as well as Mac, therefore most users are probably on PC is just a silly argument.

11 minutes ago, Don Kotlos said:

For video acquisition and post production. It is from the Society of Motion Picture & Television Engineers.

Again:

42 minutes ago, jax_rox said:

Please point me in the direction of a (non-GoPro) camera that captures in Cineform?

[...]

I would suggest that Cineform can not be an industry standard if the majority of people are using ProRes instead of it. I've also never seen anything delivered in Cineform. I have seen deliverables in H.264, ProRes, Jpeg2000, depending on where they're going. I've received masters in ProRes and .dpx files 

Never Cineform. Maybe it's a regional thing.

SMPTE can define whatever they want as an industry standard. Technically, AVID is an industry standard. I would hazard a guess though, that there are more Premiere installations than Avid Media Composer. I use and love Avid, but I'm also aware that many of my colleagues use Premiere. AVID was also the 'industry standard' back at the reign of FCP7. There were plenty of post houses that you couldn't get a job at if you couldn't use FCP. Yet, Avid was the 'industry standard' The same is true now of Premiere.

Cineform being the SMPTE agreed upon 'industry standard' doesn't make it so. As I say, I'm yet to find a camera that shoots in Cineform, I'm yet to be delivered anything in Cineform, I'm yet to see Cineform used over ProRes as an intermediary, and I'm yet to have a master delivered in Cineform.

I have had all those things done with ProRes.

I don't know how you could look at a camera marketplace, where the Alexa, Amira, F5, F55, Varicam, et al, and all the external recorders shoot ProRes either as an option, or exclusively and say 'nah, Cineform's the one'