360/VR at NAB 2016

[Jonesy Jones]

I was at NAB several years ago when 3D was going to be the next big thing. lol That year EVERYONE had a 3D rig at their booth. The next year was 4K and EVERYONE had 4K in bold somewhere on their booth (except Canon). 

This year I heard VR was going to be big and I figured I’d be seeing that everywhere. Since there was some interest from this forum about it I just assumed I see em and try em out. And….. on day 1…… I saw…… basically NOTHING VR related. There was the Helios (more on this later), but that was just sitting alone and ignored over at the Blackmagic booth. Point being, it wasn’t easy to get to these devices. I had to go waaay out of the way to the VR pavilion. I was there once and for a relatively short time, and I got the best info I could in that time. (Also, this tech ended up making me sick, see below, so again my time was limited.)

On day 2 I searched the floor plan for VR booths and went and found quite a few together in their own corner of the convention. There were definitely a bunch of folks checking them out, but they would have got lots more traffic at another part of the show. 

So, the next couple paragraphs is my very subjective experience, and it’s brutally honest. I only include it because I think it’s probably worthwhile to know there are folks like me out there with my experience. But if you don’t care to hear this, just skip down to the nitty gritty (add Nacho Libre accent). 
_______________

So I walked over to the VR pavilion with no knowledge or experience whatsoever. NONE. I put on the first headset I could find. My first thought was “woah, I see why they call it virtual reality.” I was impressed. The Nokia OZO was streaming live to my headset and it was pretty cool. Again, I was thinking “Wow, this is pretty…” And then I took the headset off. I quickly discovered a couple things. 

First, it makes me very motion sick. I could last no longer than 20-30 seconds on any headset. It wasn’t a clarity thing or a 3d thing. The experience is the cause, and this alone is a complete deal breaker for me. No can do. 

Second, it gave me anxiety. Before even the sickness set in, the moment I put on the headset I felt disoriented and anxious. Even though the experience was cool, I couldn’t wait to get the headset off. The headphones didn’t help either, but I really don’t think it would change it much with speakers. Perhaps this is something I’d get over with more exposure to the tech. Maybe. But if not, another complete deal breaker for me.

Lastly, it looks stupid on other people, and assume on me too.  I was laughing at everyone else wearing those things. I would literally put my camera right up to their face to snap the photos below and they had no idea. I don’t like that. Perhaps this is the easiest to overlook. 

I am sorry if this has tainted my perspective on VR. All things considering it’s still an amazing technology, just not for me. But I do think I walked away with at least some valuable info…. hopefully. Here’s what I got.
_________________

THE NITTY GRITTY

You can see pixels on all units. Even the best ones still looked like you were sitting too close to a TV that completely surrounded you. And none felt completely in focus.

I learned that there is both 2D and 3D VR, and there are some rigs that do 360, and some that do the whole sphere. 

I definitely preferred 2D over 3D. Maybe the 3D would be cool for video games, but for most other content I liked the 2D. And 2D was the better quality, least pixelated and clearest. VOKE was the best that I viewed.

I did not notice a ton of wide lens distortion, maybe a little on the stereoscopic ones, but it wasn’t bothersome.

I wasn’t impressed with the OZO quality. But it’s features are probably ease of use and live streaming. And it was only viewable through the crappy Oculus.

The Samsung Oculus was the worst that I viewed. The others were better, and beyond the Oculus there wasn’t one that was just way better, other than that I think the 2D ones were better.

The Helios rig looked great. (The one that I saw on day 1 was at the BM booth.) There actually was some footage available, but not on VR goggles. It was showing on a small half dome screen, which was an even greater vomit fest than the goggles. But the footage looked great for the short time I was there. Crisp and cleaner than the Gopro stuff.

The 360Heros rigs looked great (they also made the Helios). 

Concept VR rigs were nice too. 
________________

As I write this I realize that I didn’t get the best recon, but like I mentioned, I get distracted easily, and apparently motion sick.

My take away is that 2D is cleaner than 3D. Nothing above the Oculus seems way better than the next one, relatively the same. All the rigs seemed comparable to each other. GoPros seemed better than the OZO, and BMMCC or A7S or anything else seemed better than GoPro. 

Below are some photos. The first one was a total accidental forced perspective.

[mkabi]

See, I didn't understand the hype behind 360 VR, especially for those that are interested in it, even on this forum.

Beyond gaming and porn, I can't see it being applied to cinema. Getting a headset alone, makes it a singular experience. Then there is a lot of issues, for example in terms of making a  movie, it has a specific direction, whereas being in a VR it can go in any direction... the protagonist is going in one direction, you look away for a second and you lost him/her. A 100 day shoot, can easily turn into a 2 year shoot, then the director needs to sit next to the editor for another 2 years telling him, if the viewer turns this way, then he will run into this situation, etc. Making an infinite possibility of completing a movie, each time you see this movie its a new experience :D 

Then there is the issue of actually filming it, think about the lighting, the crew and other equipment (like dolly, crane, etc)... 360 rigs films everything, the director can't be in visible sight of the camera. 

I can also see its uses though, for instance, I definitely see it being used in fight scenes, like you are in the middle of a battlefield - bullets flying overhead, but that can be experienced in a video game too.

[AaronChicago]

VR isn't really intended for the narrative film maker. It's more for immersive entertainment, study, showcase, etc. NFL quarterbacks are using it right now to practice reading defenses from a real life perspective. 

I think you're totally correct though that it won't be the norm for narrative film/TV.

[Ed_David]

i think making it just 270 degree view up and down is the answer - then it will take off for cinema.   It's so much more interesting of an experience to me than anything I have seen.  But people do like completely idiots wearing them.  

 

Love that first photo too, Jonesy

 

thanks for this

[Jimmy]

6 hours ago, mkabi said:

Beyond gaming and porn, I can't see it being applied to cinema. 

Not everyone on the forum is shooting for cinema. Once the technology advances, the applications will be wide reaching.

I can't say too much about the specifics I am using 360 video in, but the elearning and medical industries are getting excited.

Right now, the headset tech is probably behind the camera tech, which is why Jonesy had some unpleasant experiences... The glasses need at least 4k by 4k and need a high refresh rate and zero latency to reduce nausea. It is also natural for the filmmaker to want to show high octane experiences like surfing a big wave... All adding to the nausea inducing experience.

As the industry improves and settles, hopefully so will the experience.

Thanks Jonesy for the great write up... The Helios looks like the most interesting.

Ps- other than the oculus and vive, the other headsets are very much dependent on which cellphone is being used... Interesting that you didn't like oculus, as that is probably the most powerful on the market. The oculus and vive have the ability to set focus for your eyes, something that probably doesn't happen much at expos, so might lead to blurry images.

[Jimmy]

BTW... If you want to see how VR and 360 video could work for narrative, check out insidious 3 trailer for cardboard...

The quality is SD at best, but by far the most chilling experience I have had in a long time.

[AaronChicago]

11 minutes ago, Jimmy said:

BTW... If you want to see how VR and 360 video could work for narrative, check out insidious 3 trailer for cardboard...

The quality is SD at best, but by far the most chilling experience I have had in a long time.

The rollercoaster one is trippy too. Makes my stomach feel like I'm on an actual steep decline.

[IronFilm]

9 hours ago, Jonesy Jones said:

I was at NAB several years ago when 3D was going to be the next big thing. lol That year EVERYONE had a 3D rig at their booth. The next year was 4K and EVERYONE had 4K in bold somewhere on their booth (except Canon). 

This year I heard VR was going to be big and I figured I’d be seeing that everywhere. Since there was some interest from this forum about it I just assumed I see em and try em out. And….. on day 1…… I saw…… basically NOTHING VR related. There was the Helios (more on this later), but that was just sitting alone and ignored over at the Blackmagic booth. Point being, it wasn’t easy to get to these devices. I had to go waaay out of the way to the VR pavilion. I was there once and for a relatively short time, and I got the best info I could in that time. (Also, this tech ended up making me sick, see below, so again my time was limited.)

But did any of those years have their pavilion for 4K or 3D??  Nope!

But VR does :-D 

I think also it is quite easy for all the existing players to push out a new 4K product, while VR is more complex, which means VR has a much greater presence of new players. 

12 hours ago, Jonesy Jones said:

First, it makes me very motion sick. I could last no longer than 20-30 seconds on any headset. It wasn’t a clarity thing or a 3d thing. The experience is the cause, and this alone is a complete deal breaker for me. No can do. 

People who have never been in a car (or rarely do) seem to get car sick easily, while frequent drivers don't. 
I think VR might be like that. 
And of course there are lots of people like me who never get car sick or VR sick, I even read in the car while facing backwards!

[Nikkor]

I will wait for 8K, the gigantic pixels are really terrible.

[IronFilm]

6 minutes ago, Nikkor said:

I will wait for 8K, the gigantic pixels are really terrible.

You can already view 8K 360 videos on YouTube!

12 hours ago, Jonesy Jones said:

Nothing above the Oculus seems way better than the next one, relatively the same. All the rigs seemed comparable to each other. GoPros seemed better than the OZO

& this is why I'm pretty happy settling with my Oculus DK1 and a 360 GoPro rig :-D 

 

8 hours ago, Ed_David said:

i think making it just 270 degree view up and down is the answer - then it will take off for cinema.  

 

Yes, and restricting it to a little less than 360 makes it a LOT easier hiding the crew (or lights, or whatever). 

[Nikkor]

Btw, Virtual reality has a lot of possibilities for narrative films. I don't know if or when it will be something common and not gimmicky, but it certainly opens a lot of new ways of telling things.

There is the straight forward thing of putting people in the action, as if they were actually there. But soon filmmakers will notice all the things you can do to transmit mood meanings,etc through perspective,etc...

For example, a tele shot in virtual reality will be something epic, because it is a very different way of seeing. You start moving away from conic proyection into a cilindrical proyection, giving you sort of a god like point of view. The typical vertigo compensated zoom on the otherhand, will be totally crazy. But no need to overdo things, lets take the compensated zoom, you can have a scene where someone walks into a place and experiences something stressful, lifechanging,etc... During this scene the center of perspective starts shifting, beginning to be opressive, like people experience in real life (for extreme cases check alice in wonderland sindrome).

The only peoblem is that you could stress some people too much and make them puke

[IronFilm]

whoa, that would be some trippy sh*t! Could really mess around with this in AE I suppose

[Jimmy]

For horror, the feeling of having something just out of your peripheral vision has always been a great technique... 360 video really heightens this.

I cannot urge people enough to go get VR cardboard ($20) and download Insidious 3... It will change your entire thinking of what is possible, for narrative.... It will stay quite niche, but those who get it right will be pioneers in a new way of storytelling.

[jgharding]

I preordered the HTC Vive, but it's more for gaming TBH. I may try making a first-person film for VR though...

At the moment clients are 360 video bonkers. It's a bit of a fad though.

VR on the other hand is here to stay this time.

[IronFilm]

36 minutes ago, jgharding said:

I may try making a first-person film for VR though...

Keep a diary here if you do!! I'd find it absolutely fascinating. 

36 minutes ago, jgharding said:

At the moment clients are 360 video bonkers. It's a bit of a fad though.

What do you think is the appropriate level budget to charge clients for a GoPro rig level quality 360 video?

[jgharding]

It's difficult to talk about budgets abstractly without the real-life client context, as these are so variable.

But if you're interested in building a cost relatong to hire rates, there's nothing to stop you making enquieries of specialist 360 shooters/post-persons about a theoretical production.

[MattH]

On 20/04/2016 at 11:50 PM, Jonesy Jones said:

First, it makes me very motion sick.

Lastly, it looks stupid on other people, and assume on me too.  I was laughing at everyone else wearing those things. I would literally put my camera right up to their face to snap the photos below and they had no idea. I don’t like that. Perhaps this is the easiest to overlook.

You can see pixels on all units. Even the best ones still looked like you were sitting too close to a TV that completely surrounded you.

 

Below are some photos. The first one was a total accidental forced perspective.

I agree with all of these points. Was exactly what I felt trying the oculus rift beta.  It just wasn't something I wanted to do longer than 5 minutes.

I obviously get what you mean about the picture, but I think it would technically only be FORCED perspective if you used a large man and/or a small vr unit.

On 21/04/2016 at 3:04 AM, mkabi said:

See, I didn't understand the hype behind 360 VR, especially for those that are interested in it, even on this forum.

Beyond gaming and porn, I can't see it being applied to cinema.

I can't see how 360 degree VR would be usefull for porn.  What is happening behind you?  If the sex is happening in one direction, why am I going to want to look around at the room? To check out the decor?

[sanveer]

More than anything else, Unless VR is transparent and compact, maybe something like Google Glass, I don't see it becoming very big. 

And that AD with a guy travelling with a VR Headset on a Tube was absolutely unimaginative. It wad outright stupid. He could have been mugged or missed his station of something much worse. 

[HelsinkiZim]

I think VR video or 360° video or VR... whatever we are eventually going to call it, is different than 3D VR - from a production standpoint. 3D VR has potential, in verticals such as education for kids and gaming. Animators are not limited by camera specs/ ergonomics/ location and the possibilities are seemingly endless.

For video, based on the op's experience and my own suspicions prior, I feel its not so pretty a picture.

Speaking of pictures, I first heard of 360° pictures in 1998. It was the new thing and we all wanted to do it. But one would have to have a stepped tripod head and you took a photo every so degrees. You would stitch it together in a program and output a flash (or Director?) movie, and upload in a QuickTime container. 5 years later you only needed a fish-eye lens and take 2 photos at 180° turns. Load it up and a program stitched etc...

Mind, you could even create hotspots in flash so you could effectively walk through a door into the next VR room.

Did it take off like gangbusters?

No.

I see the same for VR video, it feels a bit like a gimmick. Like Hardcore Henry first person POV (which was tried with minimal success in Doom 2005).

It would probably do well for a music video with a decent budget, streaming 'put on your headset now' action sequences/ horror moments and fade out from there.

[mkabi]

1 hour ago, MattH said:

 

I can't see how 360 degree VR would be usefull for porn.  What is happening behind you?  If the sex is happening in one direction, why am I going to want to look around at the room? To check out the decor?

I don't know why I'm discussing this in great detail...

But, from my perspective, well... VR in general, not specifically 360 degree ...is about emmersing yourself in the experience. Suppose it is a bedroom, and you have a multiple partner fantasy... Suppose you're a girl using VR porn...

Use your imagination... 

BTW... If you don't know that it already existed, here is an example of first time users and their thoughts... It's not 360, but still VR... Don't worry it's not rated xxx here: