One Lens?

[The Chris]

1 hour ago, TheRenaissanceMan said:

Indeed. The problem is that ZEs require electrical contacts to control the aperture, and ZFs focus "backwards." Contax Zeiss are the newest Zeisses for DSLRs that have aperture rings and focus the correct direction. Plus, the coatings are a little less contrasty, which helps preserve DR and a more "organic" look for video. 

I only shoot Sony and M43, electronic adapters and focal reducers are readily available to control EF apertures. YMMV. Sorry, I don't know what organic means when it comes to digital video and I've never seen any quantifiable evidence that lens coatings will impact DR. If you have measurements that demonstrate otherwise, I'd be interested in seeing them.

Cheers

[TheRenaissanceMan]

33 minutes ago, The Chris said:

I only shoot Sony and M43, electronic adapters and focal reducers are readily available to control EF apertures. YMMV. Sorry, I don't know what organic means when it comes to digital video and I've never seen any quantifiable evidence that lens coatings will impact DR. If you have measurements that demonstrate otherwise, I'd be interested in seeing them.

Cheers

Makes sense. I use a variety of different cameras, including some with passive mounts, and good electronic adapters aren't cheap. I prefer 100% analog whenever possible. 

Organic is a qualitative term that means something like "natural." It's a pretty commonplace term these days.

I read a thread a while back on RED User where a member had shot the same scene with Leica R glass and Contax Zeiss. The Leica R exhibited higher contrast and blew highlights/crushed shadows more readily than the more forgiving Zeiss. This was easily observable both in the image and on the waveform. The Tokina 11-16 and Sigma Art series are also known for reducing DR in this fashion. Again, a relatively commonplace idea among shooters I've spoken to.

[kidzrevil]

@The Chris it happens bro. Modern lenses can be so contrasty you can lose an entire stop in DR. Happens with the zeiss glass I own now. I HAVE to throw on a diffusion filter to compensate for that. Lower contrast lenses are better for 8bit and I assume modern contrasty lenses were built with raw and 10bit log in mind

[norliss]

10 hours ago, The Chris said:

There's a giant Contax Zeiss thread on reduser. The German versions of many lenses show what's regarded as ninja star bokeh while the Japanese versions do not. Something to be aware of, I personally can't stand the ninja star look, so I've always bought MIJ lenses. Supposedly the MIJ versions have updated coatings too. The other drawback for me is 6-bladed apertures on most lenses, Zeiss moved to 8-blades with the ZE/ZF's and many can be found for less than the C/Y versions without worries of internal fungus and dust.

They're fine with 36mp stills on the A7r, they're more than up to the task for 4k.

Not strictly true.

There were two versions of the Contax Zeiss lenses: the AE variant made up to 1985 and the MM variant made from 1985-2005. Both were made in Germany and Japan - hence AEG, AEJ, MMG, MMJ - and it's the older AE models that exhibit the 'ninja star' effect you referred to, so it's this (rather than where they were made) that is the determinant of this phenomenon.

[The Chris]

8 hours ago, kidzrevil said:

@The Chris it happens bro. Modern lenses can be so contrasty you can lose an entire stop in DR. Happens with the zeiss glass I own now. I HAVE to throw on a diffusion filter to compensate for that. Lower contrast lenses are better for 8bit and I assume modern contrasty lenses were built with raw and 10bit log in mind

Modern DSLR/mirrorless lenses are built for the always escalating MP race and pixel peepers, hence the obsession with corner crops everywhere.

I don't shoot modern and vintage lenses with the same settings, Minolta MD and Zeiss CY are distinctly different from each other and very different from EF or FE lenses. I've seen differences, but nothing that equates to a full stop. 

Cheers

4 hours ago, norliss said:

Not strictly true.

There were two versions of the Contax Zeiss lenses: the AE variant made up to 1985 and the MM variant made from 1985-2005. Both were made in Germany and Japan - hence AEG, AEJ, MMG, MMJ - and it's the older AE models that exhibit the 'ninja star' effect you referred to, so it's this (rather than where they were made) that is the determinant of this phenomenon.

Thanks for the clarification. 

12 hours ago, TheRenaissanceMan said:

Makes sense. I use a variety of different cameras, including some with passive mounts, and good electronic adapters aren't cheap. I prefer 100% analog whenever possible. 

Organic is a qualitative term that means something like "natural." It's a pretty commonplace term these days.

I read a thread a while back on RED User where a member had shot the same scene with Leica R glass and Contax Zeiss. The Leica R exhibited higher contrast and blew highlights/crushed shadows more readily than the more forgiving Zeiss. This was easily observable both in the image and on the waveform. The Tokina 11-16 and Sigma Art series are also known for reducing DR in this fashion. Again, a relatively commonplace idea among shooters I've spoken to.

I've found CY (28/2.8, 35/1.4, 50/1.4, 35-70 and 100/2) to have more contrast and a bit cooler than the lone Leica R lens I've used (35-70/4). The faster Leica R's have such a pleasing look, such a smooth transition from the focal plane to OOF areas, if I didn't need AF, I'd roll with all Summicrons and Summiluxes and that 35-70 with Speedboosters all around. 

[mercer]

So, my Voigtlander came in... I'm a little bummed because the seller advertised it was Version II, but it is actually Version I. With that being said, other than the disappointment... It truly is an amazing lens!!!

Here's a grab from my first test with it.

Camera: Panasonic G7

Lens: Voigtlander 25mm f/0.95 @ f/1.8

Profile: Natural -5 -5 -5 -5

Grade: FilmConvert - Fuji Velvia - 0 Grain ~ Color Finale - Master Curve Adjustment

 

[jase]

Awesome @mercer! I am really really near rebuying that lens again, maybe matched by some older Panasonic (like the G7) or wait for the GX80. I just love this lens. This week i searched for alternatives but there arent any.. you wont get any 25mm f0.95 equivalent lens that has a awesome short minimum focus distance in something comparable size-wise.

Would be great if you also try standard -5,-5,-5,-5 again - preferably some human skin combined with either KD P400 Ptra or FJ SuperX 400 and post some screencaps

[mercer]

15 minutes ago, jase said:

Awesome @mercer! I am really really near rebuying that lens again, maybe matched by some older Panasonic (like the G7) or wait for the GX80. I just love this lens. This week i searched for alternatives but there arent any.. you wont get any 25mm f0.95 equivalent lens that has a awesome short minimum focus distance in something comparable size-wise.

Would be great if you also try standard -5,-5,-5,-5 again - preferably some human skin combined with either KD P400 Ptra or FJ SuperX 400 and post some screencaps

Yeah, this lens truly is something special. I had looked at a few c-mounts that were 25mm f/0.95 but for the cost of an old TV lens, it just doesn't pay. I will definitely try those settings for you but I probably won't get to them until next week... it has been raining for the past week and isn't supposed to stop until next week.

[TheRenaissanceMan]

2 hours ago, jase said:

Awesome @mercer! I am really really near rebuying that lens again, maybe matched by some older Panasonic (like the G7) or wait for the GX80. I just love this lens. This week i searched for alternatives but there arent any.. you wont get any 25mm f0.95 equivalent lens that has a awesome short minimum focus distance in something comparable size-wise.

I hate to keep being this guy, but the SLR Magic is an extremely comparable alternative to the Voigtlander. 

Mercer, great results. Cats at windows are just the perfect test subjects. Sucks to hear about the seller misrepresenting the item. 

[mercer]

14 minutes ago, TheRenaissanceMan said:

Mercer, great results. Cats at windows are just the perfect test subjects. Sucks to hear about the seller misrepresenting the item. 

If only she would play the part as written.

[jase]

34 minutes ago, TheRenaissanceMan said:

I hate to keep being this guy, but the SLR Magic is an extremely comparable alternative to the Voigtlander. 

I admit, those lenses are pretty close. still, the voigtländer has the closer focus (17cm vs 25cm). Not that this matters too many, but to me it does

[kidzrevil]

1 hour ago, TheRenaissanceMan said:

I hate to keep being this guy, but the SLR Magic is an extremely comparable alternative to the Voigtlander. 

Mercer, great results. Cats at windows are just the perfect test subjects. Sucks to hear about the seller misrepresenting the item. 

Very true but thats IF you get a good copy. Their quality of control is unbelievably crappy. I've had good luck with their wides like the 10mm. Solid lenses

[TheRenaissanceMan]

1 minute ago, kidzrevil said:

Very true but thats IF you get a good copy. Their quality of control is unbelievably crappy. I've had good luck with their wides like the 10mm. Solid lenses

True...I had to return my first 25mm due to pretty bad decentering. It seems they've gotten better since then, but I'm guessing Cosina's QC is more consistent.

Then again, the SLR Magic is about half the price. 

[kidzrevil]

asahi super takumar 50mm f1.4

[Cinegain]

One of my first vintage lenses. First was the Minolta 50mm f/1.7 (with Minolta XG-1), then the Pentax (Asahi Optical Co.) 50mm f/1.4. The Pentax really blew me away!

[kidzrevil]

the contrast of the pentax looks sooooo good. It definitely has a signature look when it comes to rendering. The bokeh is ridiculous too, wish I grabbed some shots of that

[Cinegain]

Was a lovely combo for shooting monochrome on the GH2. I like the way you've 'developed' your footage as well. Has a very earthy/organic film vibe. I like.

[kidzrevil]

7 hours ago, mercer said:

So, my Voigtlander came in... I'm a little bummed because the seller advertised it was Version II, but it is actually Version I. With that being said, other than the disappointment... It truly is an amazing lens!!!

Here's a grab from my first test with it.

Camera: Panasonic G7

Lens: Voigtlander 25mm f/0.95 @ f/1.8

Profile: Natural -5 -5 -5 -5

Grade: FilmConvert - Fuji Velvia - 0 Grain ~ Color Finale - Master Curve Adjustment

 

damn dude sorry to hear that. Either way the voigtlander is exceptional and you can see it here. Glad you like it, its a really dope lens

@Cinegain thank you !

[mercer]

50 minutes ago, kidzrevil said:

damn dude sorry to hear that. Either way the voigtlander is exceptional and you can see it here. Glad you like it, its a really dope lens

@Cinegain thank you !

Thanks, man. The guy is supposed to give me a partial refund, so it ain't all bad. And the good news is with the Voigt's half stops, you can still get decent exposure control. But yeah, the lens effin amazing. Obviously, I knew f/0.95 was fast but I couldn't believe how much light this sucker lets in. 

Btw, your Takumar shots look great. They remind me of gritty, NYC 70s movies like Serpico or something. I go to NY for work once in a while and you really captured how Manhattan feels.

[TheRenaissanceMan]

2 hours ago, kidzrevil said:

asahi super takumar 50mm f1.4

Great shots! The image with that 200mbps hack is lookin' goooooooood. 

I've still got an SMC Takumar 50/1.4 kicking around somewhere. Very sharp lens, but it's quite yellow and doesn't match anything else in my collection.