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Reminded how great GH4 can be...


Dave Maze
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I have been shooting a7s ii for the last few months because of....mainly peer pressure... Hate the IQ. The sensor is just total crap IMO. Never ever looks right. Natural PP on the GH4 I am getting colors I never see on sony sensors. Even a7R II in my opinion. 

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The GH4 appears to be sharper 4K vs. the A7S II. I used to prefer the GH4 colors for skintones vs. the A7S, however the A7S II with SGamut3.cine and Slog2 or Cine2 gamma has better skintones vs. the GH4 (Natural or Portrait). Post-sharpening the A7S II looks similar to the GH4. I recently did a test trying to get the GH4 (Portrait) to match the A7S II for skintones (SGamut3.cine and Slog2/Cine2)- couldn't do it in a reasonable amount of time (colors seemed limited, perhaps related to DR, like comparing near-B&W to color). The GH4 footage looked very nice and detailed, however the colors were very limited compared to the A7S II. Cranking up the saturation or vibrance didn't help.

I use the ARRI Alexa SL profile Input LUT in Lumetri (PP CC) to get really nice skintones with the A7S II and SGamut3.cine+Slog2+16 Saturation (exposed 1.7 over). This combo is so nice for skintones, as good or better than 5D3 RAW, along with 4K, amazing DR, and tiny files. Doing a multicam shoot with the C300 II soon, it should match very well (static cameras; the A7S II has poor RS compared to the C300 II, and of course very poor AF compared to the C300 II's PDAF (A7R II's PDAF is much better than the A7S II's)). I wanted to use the GH4 for another camera angle, next I'll try the old A7S or FS700.

Without doing comparisons, the GH4 is a nice compact 4K camera, especially for outdoor, well-lit shots. With the Voigtlander 25mm F.95, it's not too shabby in lower light shots.

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3 hours ago, DaveAltizer said:

I have been shooting a7s ii for the last few months because of....mainly peer pressure... Hate the IQ. The sensor is just total crap IMO. Never ever looks right. Natural PP on the GH4 I am getting colors I never see on sony sensors. Even a7R II in my opinion. 

Are you using an external recorder for 4k with the GH4 currently?

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2 hours ago, jcs said:

The GH4 appears to be sharper 4K vs. the A7S II. I used to prefer the GH4 colors for skintones vs. the A7S, however the A7S II with SGamut3.cine and Slog2 or Cine2 gamma has better skintones vs. the GH4 (Natural or Portrait). Post-sharpening the A7S II looks similar to the GH4. I recently did a test trying to get the GH4 (Portrait) to match the A7S II for skintones (SGamut3.cine and Slog2/Cine2)- couldn't do it in a reasonable amount of time (colors seemed limited, perhaps related to DR, like comparing near-B&W to color). The GH4 footage looked very nice and detailed, however the colors were very limited compared to the A7S II. Cranking up the saturation or vibrance didn't help.

I use the ARRI Alexa SL profile Input LUT in Lumetri (PP CC) to get really nice skintones with the A7S II and SGamut3.cine+Slog2+16 Saturation (exposed 1.7 over). This combo is so nice for skintones, as good or better than 5D3 RAW, along with 4K, amazing DR, and tiny files. Doing a multicam shoot with the C300 II soon, it should match very well (static cameras; the A7S II has poor RS compared to the C300 II, and of course very poor AF compared to the C300 II's PDAF (A7R II's PDAF is much better than the A7S II's)). I wanted to use the GH4 for another camera angle, next I'll try the old A7S or FS700.

Without doing comparisons, the GH4 is a nice compact 4K camera, especially for outdoor, well-lit shots. With the Voigtlander 25mm F.95, it's not too shabby in lower light shots.

Interesting finds. I have done loads of tests with a7s II with PP doing everything you mentioned and the thing that I found really helped was when I adjusted the color depth. I did a commercial shoot in Vegas during NAB week with a7s II and was finally pleased with what I got. BUT STILL it's too much tweaking and it still just doesn't feel right like Canon color science. I'm not saying GH4 is near Canon or Arri colors... But I love the 4K IQ and with Natural the colors are more than enough for average clients. Plus you could buy 3 gh4s for the price of 1 a7s2 at the moment. 

Honestly my recent findings from this rediscovery has only made me more excited for GH5 than anything. I'm still renting the Gh4 on this trip. Not planning on buying any time soon. 

Here are some before and after grade with the picture profile I have been using on a7s II internal that I really like. Found it on dvxuser and did some modifications to it. Found it to lean towards the green tint so I had to dial that out with white balance shift. 

Best a7s II 4K internal profile I have used:

Black Level: 0 (it's disabled in s-log2 anyway)
Gamma: S-log2
Black Gamma: Range- Narrow, Level -7
Knee: auto
Color Mode: sgamut3.cine
Saturation: +32
Color Phase: -2 (this is for a7sII, for original a7s use -5)
Color Depth: +6 (all of them)
Detail: -6

Expose 1.5 to 2 stops over.

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1 hour ago, Vurhd said:

Are you using an external recorder for 4k with the GH4 currently?

Nope! Just internal 4K. I'm exposing to the right as far as I can without clipping and that helps keep the noise down when I pull the exposure down a bit. 

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6 hours ago, DaveAltizer said:

 Shooting on Natural with contrast, saturation, sharpness down all the way and using filmconvert to bring the image back to normal.

Exactly the same how I used my GM1 when I had one, although i chose the Standard Profile with everything all the way down. This in combination with film convert is really a good combo!

Love the shots btw.

2 hours ago, jcs said:

However the A7S II with SGamut3.cine and Slog2 or Cine2 gamma has better skintones vs. the GH4 (Natural or Portrait).

Interesting find. You got any shots to share?

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46 minutes ago, DaveAltizer said:

Interesting finds. I have done loads of tests with a7s II with PP doing everything you mentioned and the thing that I found really helped was when I adjusted the color depth. I did a commercial shoot in Vegas during NAB week with a7s II and was finally pleased with what I got. BUT STILL it's too much tweaking and it still just doesn't feel right like Canon color science. I'm not saying GH4 is near Canon or Arri colors... But I love the 4K IQ and with Natural the colors are more than enough for average clients. Plus you could buy 3 gh4s for the price of 1 a7s2 at the moment. 

Honestly my recent findings from this rediscovery has only made me more excited for GH5 than anything. I'm still renting the Gh4 on this trip. Not planning on buying any time soon. 

Here are some before and after grade with the picture profile I have been using on a7s II internal that I really like. Found it on dvxuser and did some modifications to it. Found it to lean towards the green tint so I had to dial that out with white balance shift. 

Best a7s II 4K internal profile I have used:

Black Level: 0 (it's disabled in s-log2 anyway)
Gamma: S-log2
Black Gamma: Range- Narrow, Level -7
Knee: auto
Color Mode: sgamut3.cine
Saturation: +32
Color Phase: -2 (this is for a7sII, for original a7s use -5)
Color Depth: +6 (all of them)
Detail: -6

Expose 1.5 to 2 stops over.

 

Hey Dave your A7S II footage looks better to me than the GH4 footage you posted here. I don't change Color Phase, Color Depth, or Black Gamma, and use Detail -3. The ARRI SL LUT in PP CC gets the skintones looking nice with one click (sometimes need to increase Exposure in Lumetri after this LUT). I expose in camera similarly (typically +1.7).

I still prefer the C300 II color, detail, and of course the PDAF, however the A7S II is very impressive considering the cost. Sony will probably have another A7x out by the time the 5D4 is released, and if Sony has further improved the color and PDAF (A7R II descendent), Canon will have its work cut out to compete. The 1DX II looks nice, but nothing I've seen so far is better than the A7S II in terms of skintone color (from my own tests side-by-side with the C300 II), highlights, and low light (A7S II has poor RS, AF is almost useless, can't do 4K60, though it does have IBIS (OK but not great)).

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7 hours ago, jcs said:

Hey Dave your A7S II footage looks better to me than the GH4 footage you posted here. I don't change Color Phase, Color Depth, or Black Gamma, and use Detail -3. The ARRI SL LUT in PP CC gets the skintones looking nice with one click (sometimes need to increase Exposure in Lumetri after this LUT). I expose in camera similarly (typically +1.7).

I still prefer the C300 II color, detail, and of course the PDAF, however the A7S II is very impressive considering the cost. Sony will probably have another A7x out by the time the 5D4 is released, and if Sony has further improved the color and PDAF (A7R II descendent), Canon will have its work cut out to compete. The 1DX II looks nice, but nothing I've seen so far is better than the A7S II in terms of skintone color (from my own tests side-by-side with the C300 II), highlights, and low light (A7S II has poor RS, AF is almost useless, can't do 4K60, though it does have IBIS (OK but not great)).

I will personally disagree. I've looked through all my a7sii footage and am not happy with it at all. Total shit sensor in my opinion and should only be used when needing low light. Gh4 is so easy and clients don't know the difference. Everything about gh4 makes more business sense. 1/3 of the cost. Longer battery life. Easier to grade. 

I'm DP for a possible feature length theatrical doc this year. Still in development. We will be shooting on C300 II but that's a different thing really because we have budget and it's being released in theaters. 

To own and operate your own camera I feel you should only get what you can afford. I'm a 26 year old newly wed with debt and a puppy. $1,200 camera vs a $3,000 camera that has a worse workflow and minor upgrades over a $1,200 isn't appealing to me in my situation. I need the most bang for buck. 

I'm still considering getting a used C100 mk1. Great work horse 

My opinion which has matured over the last 6 years in the industry is you own the camera that you can afford that get 90% of what you need done and done easily and well. You rent the rest 

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