Zach Posted January 30, 2013 Share Posted January 30, 2013 Yeah I have to disagree BurnetRhoades. Its not being lazy if it provides great quality. From what I'm reading about the Bolex, the audio looks to be pretty legit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mirrorkisser Posted January 30, 2013 Share Posted January 30, 2013 What a nice and romantic project, doubt this will ever go anywhere. By the time they are ready to produce in masses (if they ever will be), consumer camcorders will be on the level of a sony f55. Kudos though for trying. Leang 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markm Posted January 30, 2013 Share Posted January 30, 2013 Those can still get proper off board sound, my point is that most DSLR shooters are using cheaper recorders which quality could be easily matched if not raised by the camera's internal audio, saving everyone a lot of time in post. For more professional uses, it's also nice to be able to plug a feed out of the sound board to the camera's XLR ports. Whats the point recording RAW and go through workflow hell to get the best picture you can then scrimp on what is 50% by recording less than perfect sound. The BMC or digital bolex will take care of a cinema standard picture. The camera operator should worry about his picture and framing and where the focus puller is rather than be monitoring sound. OH you would monitor the sound wouldn't you? Well if yes then that has to be done by the sound recordist. The problem is these large sensor cameras need crews and while you can get by with talking heads if your making a film you need to wire people for sound and monitor it. Okay if you want to make a test film with a single actor and very little else then maybe but I would suggest this camera is not for those sort of people who would be better served with a second hand Sony EX1 than an attention seeking film camera that requires all the tradittional film making skills. The BMC/Digital Bolex solve just one small problem the picture as for lights sound cast crew location script these all cost money too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leang Posted January 30, 2013 Share Posted January 30, 2013 All jokes aside, selecting (or not selecting) a camera based on its exterior looks instead of what it can do makes as much sense as selecting a camera based on its in-camera audio capabilities. Priorities. Get some. So what you are really trying to say is that the BMCC is for all ages?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. John R. Brinkley Posted January 30, 2013 Share Posted January 30, 2013 Having good onboard audio is always a plus. With quality increasing and price dropping the lines have been blurred between what is professional and what is prosumer. I think many of the complaints are not taking into account a perspective outside your own. I know that many documentarians will love this camera as it has some sense of spirit and life to it, rather than being a dull functional box, and having audio will allow people to be a one man band, which is where everything is headed anyways. I think the pistol grip is kind of cool. It is an aesthetic allusion to the old home movie cameras. I think most normal non film people would say this camera looks cool and actually looks like a camera, not a hard drive with a hole for a lens. Also, if you read their blog you will notice that they are taking their time instead of releasing a version that then later needs to be immediately updated, like something Apple would do. It's hard for me to see anything wrong with this camera. And if it never makes it to market, it will still have an impact because it's another warning shot across the bow of the big camera companies. The market is changing. Bruno 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lafilm Posted January 30, 2013 Share Posted January 30, 2013 Obviously, any narrative piece of filmmaking intended for a theatrical audience will (should) hire a professional sound man. The D16 will be a reality this year and you'll see features shot on this by end of 2013. It's been done multiple times on the 5D2, it will certaily happen on the D16. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruno Posted January 30, 2013 Share Posted January 30, 2013 The problem is these large sensor cameras need crews and while you can get by with talking heads if your making a film you need to wire people for sound and monitor it. This camera doesn't have that large of a sensor :) The Canon DSLRs do and still many people use it for way more purposes than fiction narrative with crews, and they sure as hell would welcome better audio, regardless of the sensor size. Anyway, to make it clear, I'm not arguing with that, I never was. If you're shooting narrative fiction, I totally agree with you, you shouldn't be using the camera's built in audio, but I never said so, my argument was always thinking of single shooters, as I clearly stated. I've shot narrative projects where I couldn't care less if the camera even had any audio capabilities, I wasn't even worried about audio since I had the sound guys taking care of it. But I've also shot many documentary interviews where I was lighting, shooting, conducting the interview, placing mics, recording sound, carrying equipment, light kit, tripod, etc. all with virtually no setup time, and I sure as hell would have loved to have 2 decent preamps and audio meters in camera, so it would be one less device to carry, operate, power, etc... I don't see how this is being lazy really. This camera is priced so any enthusiast could have one, and just like people do with DSLRs at the moment, they'll be shooting all kinds of projects in all kinds of styles, not just carefully planed fiction narrative projects. I don't understand why people would argue against features that others actually have a need for, if I only shot B&W I wouldn't be dissing the fact that the camera shoots colour. The camera already has sound and XLR inputs, so I might as well hope it will do a good job at it, because as I said before, technically and cost wise, it's not hard to make it sound at least like a $300 portable recorder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leang Posted January 30, 2013 Share Posted January 30, 2013 What a nice and romantic project, doubt this will ever go anywhere. By the time they are ready to produce in masses (if they ever will be), consumer camcorders will be on the level of a sony f55. Kudos though for trying. I agree. the website tries to justify through several paragraphs an ''improved'' pistol grip! Buy a P&C pistol grip for $20. They work like a charm and make any DSLR Super8 retro, but let's not a make a big deal about it... I use to have a Canon 1014xls and a Bolex H16 with a wide, medium, and long. proper old times Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lafilm Posted January 30, 2013 Share Posted January 30, 2013 Andrew, Info on Anamorphic D16 from JR: http://www.digitalbolex.com/forum/lenses-and-accessories/anamorphic/#p2233 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruno Posted January 30, 2013 Share Posted January 30, 2013 the website tries to justify through several paragraphs an ''improved'' pistol grip! Buy a P&C pistol grip for $20. I don't think their pistol is passive, is it? Anyway, a lot of the people pick on so many details on the D16 mostly because of them being so transparent with the whole process. They're not just being transparent, they're also listening, which is exactly what we keep complaining that most camera makers don't do, and they're getting too much crap because of it IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markm Posted January 30, 2013 Share Posted January 30, 2013 This camera doesn't have that large of a sensor :) The Canon DSLRs do and still many people use it for way more purposes than fiction narrative with crews, and they sure as hell would welcome better audio, regardless of the sensor size. Anyway, to make it clear, I'm not arguing with that, I never was. If you're shooting narrative fiction, I totally agree with you, you shouldn't be using the camera's built in audio, but I never said so, my argument was always thinking of single shooters, as I clearly stated. I've shot narrative projects where I couldn't care less if the camera even had any audio capabilities, I wasn't even worried about audio since I had the sound guys taking care of it. But I've also shot many documentary interviews where I was lighting, shooting, conducting the interview, placing mics, recording sound, carrying equipment, light kit, tripod, etc. all with virtually no setup time, and I sure as hell would have loved to have 2 decent preamps and audio meters in camera, so it would be one less device to carry, operate, power, etc... I don't see how this is being lazy really. This camera is priced so any enthusiast could have one, and just like people do with DSLRs at the moment, they'll be shooting all kinds of projects in all kinds of styles, not just carefully planed fiction narrative projects. I don't understand why people would argue against features that others actually have a need for, if I only shot B&W I wouldn't be dissing the fact that the camera shoots colour. The camera already has sound and XLR inputs, so I might as well hope it will do a good job at it, because as I said before, technically and cost wise, it's not hard to make it sound at least like a $300 portable recorder. The point is for those like me we don't care if the camera has basic sound and I personally wonder why anyone would want this camera if they did. Yes of course if it has good sound thats a bonus but really unnecessary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Andrew Reid Posted January 30, 2013 Author Administrators Share Posted January 30, 2013 I really do believe people need to cut them some slack. It took a company with a backing of millions of dollars (Red) years to deliver their first camera and it was very late. These guys have what, $150,000 from Kickstarter? That is peanuts. They are delivering a camera which does 2.4K from a global shutter for $3000!!! This will be a fine back-up for the Blackmagic where rolling shutter would be an issue on the BMCC CMOS sensor. The image quality from the samples so far look great. The form factor is fine, it is is still a picture making box like all the other cameras. I don't see what is wild and weird about it. The handle comes off and you can rig it up like a DSLR or put it on a tripod. I do prefer the Epic's form factor but there were very few complaints about the original Bolex's form factor, and tons of interesting 16mm stuff was shot with just the handle and nothing else. Bruno, Zach and Xiong 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moebius22 Posted January 30, 2013 Share Posted January 30, 2013 No one talks about this camera. The equipment house here already bought Black Magic. Bolex who? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jocelyn Deguise Posted January 30, 2013 Share Posted January 30, 2013 Nice to hear that this "hypothetical" camcorder is getting an upgrade ! I can't shake the feeling that this camera, when (if?) it's released, will already be made obsolete by whatever GoPro has up it's sleeve for the next NAB. I, for one, would never waste $3000 on a device from a company without a track record, no matter how cool the specs seem to be. Just thinking about customer support and service makes me shiver... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OzNimbus Posted January 30, 2013 Share Posted January 30, 2013 By the time they are ready to produce in masses (if they ever will be), consumer camcorders will be on the level of a sony f55. That's what you call the "Duke Nukem effect." ...By the time that game had been released, the world had moved on. I fear the same fate for this camera. The digital world moves very, very fast. Innovate, or get the fuck out of the way. For almost a year we've been hearing an awful lot about the Bolex, but have yet to see a working prototype. Sure, they've made several engineering changes to the handle. That's impressive as hell. <ok, that was sarcasm> I'd love to see this camera happen, but as of right now, it's fiction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Andrew Reid Posted January 30, 2013 Author Administrators Share Posted January 30, 2013 Engineering samples and prototypes exist. If that is fiction then maybe there's a bit of HAL floating about in space? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OzNimbus Posted January 30, 2013 Share Posted January 30, 2013 Engineering samples and prototypes exist. If that is fiction then maybe there's a bit of HAL floating about in space? Show me links to a working prototype and I will stand happily corrected. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lafilm Posted January 31, 2013 Share Posted January 31, 2013 "Engineering samples and prototypes exist. If that is fiction then maybe there's a bit of HAL floating about in space?" LOL :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Andrew Reid Posted January 31, 2013 Author Administrators Share Posted January 31, 2013 So how do you think they shot this material? With an empty box!? https://vimeo.com/41309513 https://vimeo.com/37930525 https://vimeo.com/53660366 https://vimeo.com/38327634 https://vimeo.com/38286282 Do you think this bunch of engineers sit on Facebook all day with no work to do? What WOULD they do with no working prototype? Why employ them at all? Your hypothesis is fundamentally flawed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OzNimbus Posted January 31, 2013 Share Posted January 31, 2013 From my understanding, all of that material was shot with a Prosilica GX camera... not a DBolex prototype. If I'm incorrect, that's fine... I want to see this camera happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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