Canon 1D X Mark II high ISO and colour performance worse than predecessor

[Andrew Reid]

That Jimmy is a nob isn't personal, it's an objective fact that can be universally perceived and measured by anyone on the forum!

[richg101]

5 minutes ago, Jimmy said:

I'd choose to run my own tests.

I have zero problem if you test this camera and rip it to shreds, based on your own findings. The above article is just the worst type of "journalism" though... To then have the front to bad mouth the people you are cherry picking your info from and accuse them of sugar coating their findings is laughable. 

You talk of seeking the truth, giving honest opinions.... yet peddle this misinformed, 2nd hand nonsense.

The DPreview tests back up everything Andrew has said here...  Journalism is all about presenting information in a concise package.  DPReview's article is plagued with positivity - if they're not positive they don't get advertising revenue or free cameras sent early.  Andrews article simply points out and opens conversation regarding the less positive facts that are almost avoided by dpreview to best play political ball - brushing under the carpet hastily the fact that the 1dxii doesn't improve upon - infact based on the tests can;t even compete technically against a 4year old predecessor.

 

I like the article because it's brought to light that from a stills point of view my investment in an A7Rii was a good one and from what I'm seeing here canon won't offer anything that will compete for at least a few years.  

[OliKMIA]

9 minutes ago, Tiago Rosa-Rosso said:

And that crap doesn't overheat.

Canon 1Dx II is $6k and 20mpx vs $3.5k and 42mpx for the A7R2. The Canon is also much larger and heavier which helps for heat transfer. Also, 1Dx 4k at 30fps is 500mbps !
In this regard, It would be more reasonable to compare the the A7R2 to.... 80D ? There is no 4k on it. I still prefer having overheating issue and 4K than no 4k at all. There is no problem when you don't even try.

 

7 minutes ago, Jimmy said:

I'd choose to run my own tests.

I have zero problem if you test this camera and rip it to shreds, based on your own findings. The above article is just the worst type of "journalism" though... To then have the front to bad mouth the people you are cherry picking your info from and accuse them of sugar coating their findings is laughable. 

You talk of seeking the truth, giving honest opinions.... yet peddle this misinformed, 2nd hand nonsense.

There is no much to say. Takes 2 minutes to go over DPreview and check by yourself. Given the recent Canon's history of "innovation" on its new release, I don't really need to get the full review.
 

I couldn't care less if Canon was left behind in its 2012 era but unfortunately  I have a vast collection of EF lenses and I'm now stuck with a brand that can't or doesn't want to innovate anymore. What did Canon do for the past 5 or 6 years beside the dual-pixel which is useless when they offer crappy 1080 that looks like 720 full of moire.

The point is not about talking shit, or insulting people but seeing the reality. Since the T3i, 60D, 5Dmk3 and 6D nothing major happened with Canon. Yes the 1DxMk2, the 80D are good camera but so are the 1dx, the 5Dmk3, the 6D and the 60D.

I'm now waiting the announcement of the 5Dmk4 with very little hope given the latest Canon releases but at some point I'll have to make a choice, take my loss and get rid of my EF collection to move to another system. I'll probably wait until 2020 or so.

 

[Andrew Reid]

Maybe it's a cultural difference. Since DPR left the UK for the US they have become much more American in style, which heavily favours positivity, even if it doesn't always reflect the facts as well.

More likely is something else is going on.

You have to admit it is really weird.

[Jimmy]

Ahh, this whacky place!

The 1DXii will soon be in Andrew's collection alongside the XC10 and 1DC ... Yet he'll carry on the rhetoric and call people nobs for pointing out the inconsistencies.

Fair play to the kid... he must sit at home laughing while he types.

[OliKMIA]

DP Review is own by Amazon and they surely have a certain policy with the manufacturers. Yes they have the "think positive" attitude but they are honest and it's easy to read between the lines or see the sample by yourself.
I can't say the same for a vast majority of blogs and other websites that puke advertorials all over the place to maintain their "preferred relation" by distributing constant 3 to 5 stars ratings.

What I expect from a review is to show me all the bad and the ugly, not to sugar coat the reality. And I deeply thank you Andrew for doing that with Canon and all the other, Sony included.
I myself do a little bit of review and testing in a different industry and it's very hard to resist the ambient corruption. It takes courage and that's not easy.  The comfortable position is to get invited, paid and promoted by all the "partners" and this is what most reviewers and "journalists" do because they have to pay the bills at the end of the month and being the white knight quickly close all the doors and turn you into a black sheep in terms of PR.

Long life to EOSHD.com

[mkabi]

I find this to be hilarious.

I don't want to say I told you so... but so many of us... dazzled by the early days of affordable high quality DSLR video, bought into the Canon system.

Many have moved on... I mean most have moved to Sony... others to Blackmagic... etc.

But every once in a while, we always look back, right? Like our first love...

In my strong opinion, just keep your Canon glass and adapt it to other systems... like so many other legacy glass thats out there.

At this point, Canon doesn't deserve to be looked back on anymore... they will constantly disappoint in terms of the DSLR video department.

Not worth it anymore. Even if you still think there is hope for the 5D mark 4, lets say... they are going to put DCI 4K in it... this is 2016. Sony and Panasonic will put out 6K and 8K in their next cams within the next 2 years, at which point you are complaining that Canon haven't caught up to this company or that company - and the cycle begins all over again. Another 8 to 10 years goes by and they finally introduce 8K in their DSLRs, and everyone is already talking and doing 16K. Fruitless to argue... I think Canon is giving up too... I mean they are investing in other companies like that security cam business and Toshiba's medical imaging stuff...

Canon is a profitable company, I'm not going to argue there... but we won't be profiting from them.

 

[Andrew Reid]

46 minutes ago, Jimmy said:

Ahh, this whacky place!

The 1DXii will soon be in Andrew's collection alongside the XC10 and 1DC ... Yet he'll carry on the rhetoric and call people nobs for pointing out the inconsistencies.

Fair play to the kid... he must sit at home laughing while he types.

You haven't pointed out the inconsistencies.

I find that inconsistent with your official line.

That makes you a spineless nob! See?

41 minutes ago, OliKMIA said:

DP Review is own by Amazon and they surely have a certain policy with the manufacturers. Yes they have the "think positive" attitude but they are honest and it's easy to read between the lines or see the sample by yourself.
I can't say the same for a vast majority of blogs and other websites that puke advertorials all over the place to maintain their "preferred relation" by distributing constant 3 to 5 stars ratings.

What I expect from a review is to show me all the bad and the ugly, not to sugar coat the reality. And I deeply thank you Andrew for doing that with Canon and all the other, Sony included.
I myself do a little bit of review and testing in a different industry and it's very hard to resist the ambient corruption. It takes courage and that's not easy.  The comfortable position is to get invited, paid and promoted by all the "partners" and this is what most reviewers and "journalists" do because they have to pay the bills at the end of the month and being the white knight quickly close all the doors and turn you into a black sheep in terms of PR.

Long life to EOSHD.com

They have employed writers who are naturally puppy-like and hipster.

I left!

[ND64]

This flagship DSLRs are mostly used by PJs and Jpeg is very important for these guys. Now look at Canon white balance in  DPR night mode. D5 nailed it, but Canon seems took Sony color, and made it worse than their own 1DX :-)

[Andrew Reid]

Yes they have changed something in the skintones and red channel which I don't like.

Definitely keeping hold of the 1D C now after being on the fence for a bit.

[squig]

I read Jimmy's rants (thanks Jimmy ), then I read Andrew's blog post. Jimmy, you forget to take your happy pills mate?

[DBounce]

2 hours ago, Jimmy said:

Ahh, this whacky place!

The 1DXii will soon be in Andrew's collection alongside the XC10 and 1DC ... Yet he'll carry on the rhetoric and call people nobs for pointing out the inconsistencies.

Fair play to the kid... he must sit at home laughing while he types.

It's a love hate relationship, and I would not bet against you on this one Jimmy.

[Simon Shasha]

4 hours ago, The Chris said:

This one is debatable with large sensor cameras, the original A7r has better DR than the A7rII. Personally I would have been fine with a revised version of the 36mp sensor with all the other updates instead of moving to BSI in the A7rII. Sony's bold claims with BSI in the A7rII turned out to be nothing more than hype. Same goes for the NX1 and its BSI wonder sensor - it was still outperformed by the d7200.

I owned the A7RII and RX100 IV, and found the amount I could recover in the shadows to be pretty amazing - especially when compared to my old A7S, A6000 and D7100. I find BSI sensors have much better blacks and shadows, and more accurate colours and white balance.

[kidzrevil]

Im hoping this makes some fool list his 1dc for like $2000 on ebay so I can jump on that opportunity. Im hoping and praying LOL

[lafilm]

Not taking sides here...and Throwing all the emotions aside, it's not logical that the new Canon 1D X ii -  has zero ISO improvements over it's predecessor.

The cam has 2 brand NEW Digital 6 + chips that are far superior than any chips Canon has ever made.

This guy says the exact OPPOSITE of DPReview - Hmmmm....

https://cpn-cms.canon-europe.com/content/ambassadors/explorers/marina_cano/blogs/blog3.do

[Andrew Reid]

The NX1 gets a bad rap for noise, but at ISO 800 and under it's spookily clean due to the BSI structure.

For 1600 and above you're always going to be looking at full frame for best performance, it's the laws of physics. Although the A6300 and D7200 put in a good performance.

2 minutes ago, lafilm said:

Not taking sides here...and Throwing all the emotions aside, it's not logical that the new Canon 1D X ii -  has zero ISO improvements over it's predecessor.

The cam has 2 brand NEW Digital 6 + chips that are far superior than any chips Canon has ever made.

This guy says the exact OPPISITE of DPReview - Hmmmm....

https://cpn-cms.canon-europe.com/content/ambassadors/explorers/marina_cano/blogs/blog3.do

It's not surprising the Canon ambassador is even more 'positive' than DPR and loose with the facts.

As for the new DIGIC 6 chips, I wouldn't expect them to be that much different to Canon's last top end effort 4 years ago. Probably run a little cooler, which allows 4K 60fps, but also, they don't have to pull much weight due to MJPEG codec and lack 4K H.264, which is far more computationally intensive.

Canon are not in the business of ramping up their costs on a stills body for the sake of better video processing and codec licensing.

[lafilm]

18 minutes ago, Andrew Reid said:

The NX1 gets a bad rap for noise, but at ISO 800 and under it's spookily clean due to the BSI structure.

For 1600 and above you're always going to be looking at full frame for best performance, it's the laws of physics. Although the A6300 and D7200 put in a good performance.

It's not surprising the Canon ambassador is even more 'positive' than DPR and loose with the facts.

As for the new DIGIC 6 chips, I wouldn't expect them to be that much different to Canon's last top end effort 4 years ago. Probably run a little cooler, which allows 4K 60fps, but also, they don't have to pull much weight due to MJPEG codec and lack 4K H.264, which is far more computationally intensive.

Canon are not in the business of ramping up their costs on a stills body for the sake of better video processing and codec licensing.

I definitely hear you on the Canon ambassador. For some reason it's possible they screwed up on the stills side (I was commenting on the stills).

That being said, I have to make a comment about the quality of the video from the new Mark ii.

I was at NAB a couple weeks ago.

In person, this is exactly what I saw.

(with different footage that for some mysterious reason is not on-line anywhere).

Again, not the same footage, but the same result. 

Please view below.

Canon 1D C (cannot) achieve this. Not even close.

 

[Matthew19]

This video looks pretty great to me. Better than any other canon except maybe the 1dc at 4k, : 

 

[independent]

Really interesting lowlight video.

I think we do need a bit more information about the video side, rather than the stills. We'll get it in the next few months.

But the combination of features, the lowlight, weather-sealing, reliability, the 4K, and dual pixel autofocus make this offering pretty attractive, even if other cameras are superior is some categories. 

As far as feature set/pricing, I think the Sony a6300 at $1K, the Sony A7RII at $3K, The Canon 1DX II at $6K, and the Canon C300 II at $15K are probably the most flexible, all-around video cameras at those price points. The mirrorless/DSLR cameras will require more investment to equip them for a real video shoot, e.g., monitoring, audio, rigging, etc. 

The 1DC is great, but I think its more limited...at this point, I think the lack of slow-motion might limit some creative/commercial use, and the lack of continuous autofocus costs you flexibility (documentary work, tight shots, fast turnaround). In other words, the 1DC is a small camera with a high quality 4K video. 

But the BM ursa mini 4.6K will likely give you a superior image at a similar price point (or perhaps even cheaper, after the monitor, audio, and rigging the 1DC will probably require). So if you want to shoot a movie the old fashioned way, and maximize image quality by investing in a higher production, then that 4.6K ursa will probably do really well on controlled tests. 

Even after exhaustive tests, if the 1DC at ~$4K betters the 1DX at ~$6K in terms of absolute image quality overall, I'd still probably prefer the latter for the better features, because flexibility and usability is generally worth more than absolute image, within reason, in my experience. 

I'd rather just get the shot. 

[Ak Ns]

Hi Andrew what is the crop factor in 4k..?