Canon 1D X Mark II high ISO and colour performance worse than predecessor

[compasiune]

This is a great camera for sure. I am glad that Canon addressed the DR issue at least to a competitive level, which, honestly it is all is needed for most humans. Better AF, 4K (60fps!) dual pix and touchscreen. Great news. A even more refined camera than the 1DX.
From my side:
my old 1DX will still do all is really needed in action photography. I am far more excited about my A7RII capabilities, and I am curios what Sony has to offer next. If the 1DXIII will be our in 4 years, Canon better come out with a novel product seen the pace at which Sony is improving its mirrorless system. For me it is already A7RII 80-90% of the times I grab a body.

[Guest Ebrahim Saadawi]

i agree, worst type of journalism. Not to say Andrew actualy intentionally does it for clickbait but he more like trysts what he's saying. I just don't agree with it. First obvious matter, why the hell are we talkimg stills, and even stills Jpg performance , here on EOSHD? What the 1Dx new sensor can do is a very high quality 4K DCI up to 60p and 120p fullframe readout without aliasing\moiring much like an fs7 (softer though). The video dynamic range is increased and the shadows-to-highlights ratio is very close to c-log in neutral and fine-detail picture styles dialed down. Iso performance is not a7sii level, but extremely high, 12800 video is usable. I think that's what we care about when talk about the 1DXII here. Not JPEG performance. Plus the informstion that the 1DXIi .sensor has moved to an entirely new architecture is not false, it's 100% true. They moved to entirely ON-Chip ADs and dUal pixel sensor pixel arrangement. Until i see a side by side VIDEO performance tobthe 1DX original (:)) and other cameras, I wouldn't announce an article with a title such as. Jst me, though.

[richg101]

3 minutes ago, Ebrahim Saadawi said:

i agree, worst type of journalism. Not to say Andrew actualy intentionally does it for clickbait but he more like trysts what he's saying. I just don't agree with it. First obvious matter, why the hell are we talkimg stills, and even stills Jpg performance , here on EOSHD? 

When you factor in how much of the total cost outlay is dedicated to stills performance; and how much of the video functions have been crippled (compared to an ursa mini, a kine terra, an fs700 etc video camera, or the 1dc for that matter - canon's prehistoric sensor tech needs all the help it can get when we're talking about DR, and without c-log this camera is not going to deliver the goods that the 1dc does; you have to factor in the performance in stills mode.  Anyone buying this brand new for video alone - instead of looking at a preowned 1dc, c300mk1 or c100mk2 is mad.  

[jgharding]

This seems to have very drab colours compared to most Canon in video clips, so this testing is useful in that it proves this is not an illusion! 

For the price of this you could go and buy a proper video camera 2nd hand. I can't see why you'd get it unless you're primarily a stills guy, weddings and so on.

I think it's a sort of last-gasp of their current sensor style. They will HAVE to innovate sooner or later. As soon as Sony fix colour and menu system they're in real trouble.

its clear that Canon engage in "perception management" and refuse review stock to people who have an opinion, and I for one like the alternative voice at EOSHD. They can't stop you buying it in a shop so that's what Andrew does, like the rest of us.

there's no "Andrew Reid edition slider" here, no banner ads for products that are supposedly impartially reviewed.

one doesn't have to agree with everything said in order to appreciate free speech.

[Jimmy]

It is funny reading comments on some stills forums claiming that DPR are biased..... Towards Nikon!

Goes to show that you should just do your own tests and use your own tastes to determine a big purchase like this. There will be bias, or perceived bias, in any review/test etc... We are all shaped by our previous purchases and experiences, eliminating bias is next to impossible.

[DBounce]

1 hour ago, richg101 said:

When you factor in how much of the total cost outlay is dedicated to stills performance; and how much of the video functions have been crippled (compared to an ursa mini, a kine terra, an fs700 etc video camera, or the 1dc for that matter - canon's prehistoric sensor tech needs all the help it can get when we're talking about DR, and without c-log this camera is not going to deliver the goods that the 1dc does; you have to factor in the performance in stills mode.  Anyone buying this brand new for video alone - instead of looking at a preowned 1dc, c300mk1 or c100mk2 is mad.  

I defy you to lock focus with as much ease as you can with the 1DX Mkii with any of those other cameras. You guys are bustin b@lls, does the Ursa Mini come close to the ISO performance of this camera? Is kinefinity weather sealed? As an A7R, A7Rii, A7Mkii owner, I can confirm the A7 series does not have the same level of reliability... it's a prosumer/consumer product. My 1DX Mkii comes today...  if I put it through its paces and it sucks, I'll sell it, but if we're comparing this without using it,  then I'll judge it by the footage I've seen. And so far the 4k has looked quite good. I know it will not need to be babied. No need to worry about a little rain... or a monsoon. I know when I fly it I'll still get the shot... in focus! No overheating! Massive lens selection. Built like a tank. Not a permit camera like many. It's a fantastic all rounder. 

A7Rii

You know the A7RII is a great stills camera, but I can tell you this... set it in burst mode and you will fill the buffer in a few seconds.... then you will wait... and wait... and wait some more... and yet some more... while it writes to the card. Missed quite a few shots that way. And what good is superior ISO performance or better DR, when you've missed the shot? Also,  the jury is still out on this ISO thing. After reviewing some images taken by 1DC Mkii owners, I'm not so sure the A7Rii is better. At least not after eyeballing a few stills i took a 10k ISO with my A7Rii. They did not appear a clean as the Canon. And the noise was not as organic either. Detail also got lost. 

As time goes on we will learn more, but it is unwise to jump to conclusions here.

[BenEricson]

9 hours ago, jgharding said:

For the price of this you could go and buy a proper video camera 2nd hand. I can't see why you'd get it unless you're primarily a stills guy, weddings and so on.

Because this will put out a better image than most "proper video cameras." Straight out of the camera, this will look better than an FS7, it also has 4k/60p, really great auto focus, and the smaller size.

Obviously there are better deals out there, but if you want the top of the line DSLR...

[Ak Ns]

10 hours ago, BenEricson said:

Because this will put out a better image than most "proper video cameras." Straight out of the camera, this will look better than an FS7, it also has 4k/60p, really great auto focus, and the smaller size.

Obviously there are better deals out there, but if you want the top of the line DSLR...

FS7 can shoot 4k60fps in 10bit422, also if u want desired looks straight out of camera is possible and it can shoot beautiful 10bit 180fps in Full hd. except the focussing part 1dxmk2 is no where near comparable to FS7. It excels in every part despite costing the same [1dxmk2 body and Cfast cards]. I assume they both weigh same.

Advantages of FS7:

ND filters

Slog[ extended dynamic range

Low light capability [base iso2000]

10bit 422

12bit Raw support with recorder up to 120fps

Super 35mm sensor

Efficient codec with cheap recordable media 

support for luts 

built in foldable LCD[viewfinder] 

Hand grip for better holding position 

 

 

 

 

[Mattias Burling]

6 minutes ago, Ak Ns said:

FS7 can shoot 4k60fps in 10bit422, also if u want desired looks straight out of camera is possible and it can shoot beautiful 10bit 180fps in Full hd. except the focussing part 1dxmk2 is no where near comparable to FS7. It excels in every part despite costing the same [1dxmk2 body and Cfast cards]. I assume they both weigh same.

Advantages of FS7:

ND filters

Slog[ extended dynamic range

Low light capability [base iso2000]

10bit 422

12bit Raw support with recorder up to 120fps

Super 35mm sensor

Efficient codec with cheap recordable media 

support for luts 

built in foldable LCD[viewfinder] 

Hand grip for better holding position 

 

 

 

 

So you recommend the FS7 as a DSLR for sports photography?

[Oliver Daniel]

3 hours ago, Mattias Burling said:

So you recommend the FS7 as a DSLR for sports photography?

They are comparing two totally different cameras - the 1DX II which is great for those who want high quality video AND stills AND have EF lenses. The Sony FS7 (the most rented camera in the UK at the moment), which is ideal for experienced professionals who need high quality 4k, slow motion, use various lens mounts, like to grade their footage for best results and have an all-in-one package out the box. 

I can see the Canon bashing continues. Doesn't bother me really. The fact that so many people are bitter and frustrated proves that Canon is a wanted entity. Sure I'd like to see more ideas in their product line, but there's so many options, it's not worth spending too much time talking about it because we are spoilt. 

[Guest Ebrahim Saadawi]

4 hours ago, Ak Ns said:

FS7 can shoot 4k60fps in 10bit422, also if u want desired looks straight out of camera is possible and it can shoot beautiful 10bit 180fps in Full hd. except the focussing part 1dxmk2 is no where near comparable to FS7. It excels in every part despite costing the same [1dxmk2 body and Cfast cards]. I assume they both weigh same.

Advantages of FS7:

ND filters

Slog[ extended dynamic range

Low light capability [base iso2000]

10bit 422

12bit Raw support with recorder up to 120fps

Super 35mm sensor

Efficient codec with cheap recordable media 

support for luts 

built in foldable LCD[viewfinder] 

Hand grip for better holding position 

 

 

 

 

Wamt me to list 10+ very important features/things the 1DX/1DC can do over the FS7 tpo? They're diffetent cameras and each one has a list of benefits over the pther, a big list. 

42 minutes ago, Oliver Daniel said:

They are comparing two totally different cameras - the 1DX II which is great for those who want high quality video AND stills AND have EF lenses. The Sony FS7 (the most rented camera in the UK at the moment), which is ideal for experienced professionals who need high quality 4k, slow motion, use various lens mounts, like to grade their footage for best results and have an all-in-one package out the box. 

I can see the Canon bashing continues. Doesn't bother me really. The fact that so many people are bitter and frustrated proves that Canon is a wanted entity. Sure I'd like to see more ideas in their product line, but there's so many options, it's not worth spending too much time talking about it because we are spoilt. 

I think when Canon produces s 3000$ 5D IV with FF 4k30p and a CFAST+CF slots, 120p and dual pixel AF, A HUGE segment of canon bashing will be satisfied

[Nikkor]

12 minutes ago, Ebrahim Saadawi said:

I think when Canon produces s 3000$ 5D IV with FF 4k30p and a CFAST+CF slots, 120p and dual pixel AF, A HUGE segment of canon bashing will be satisfied

With those specs anybody with some brain will say, ok, this is a good camera. On the stills side some better shadows, and that's it. But I honestly doubt it will happen.

[hmcindie]

5 hours ago, Ak Ns said:

FS7 can shoot 4k60fps in 10bit422, also if u want desired looks straight out of camera is possible and it can shoot beautiful 10bit 180fps in Full hd. except the focussing part 1dxmk2 is no where near comparable to FS7. It excels in every part despite costing the same [1dxmk2 body and Cfast cards]. I assume they both weigh same.

FS7 is a great camera. Shot with the FS7 for a new music video and finally got some good looking material out of it (mostly due to getting used to the cine-ei mode and grading the slog). Problem is... it doesn't do stills. We had a very difficult tracking dollyshot and I would've loved to test the 1DxII there.

It seems like people compare the Canon models to every single other camera at the same time. The 1Dx is competing against other fullframe still cameras, not really against the FS7 (though it does excel the FS7 too in a couple of things, autofocus and out-of-the-box look). All of your complaints about 1dxmk2 "not being comparable" to the FS7 apply TO EVERY SINGLE DSLR/MIRRORLESS out there.

At the moment the 1Dx2 completely annihilates the Sony mirrorless competition in everything but price but you probably won't see Andrew saying that even though it's true. 

[Shield3]

Andrew Reid will you PLEASE SHUT UP!  I want the price of the used 1dx to really drop so I can pick up another one.  This isn't helping.  Love, Shield.

[Mattias Burling]

2 hours ago, Oliver Daniel said:

They are comparing two totally different cameras - the 1DX II which is great for those who want high quality video AND stills AND have EF lenses. The Sony FS7 (the most rented camera in the UK at the moment), which is ideal for experienced professionals who need high quality 4k, slow motion, use various lens mounts, like to grade their footage for best results and have an all-in-one package out the box. 

I can see the Canon bashing continues. Doesn't bother me really. The fact that so many people are bitter and frustrated proves that Canon is a wanted entity. Sure I'd like to see more ideas in their product line, but there's so many options, it's not worth spending too much time talking about it because we are spoilt. 

This.

[Andrew Reid]

2 hours ago, Ebrahim Saadawi said:

I think when Canon produces s 3000$ 5D IV with FF 4k30p and a CFAST+CF slots, 120p and dual pixel AF, A HUGE segment of canon bashing will be satisfied

"When" not if? Really?

It's highly unlikely for Canon to do full frame 4K for $3k with CFast cards to support a chunky codec (otherwise why use CFast cards at all), when there is no Cinema EOS camera in that price range or remotely close with a similar spec.

Sorry but on this one you're dreaming Ebrahim.

[DBounce]

All will be revealed soon enough...

 

[mkabi]

2 hours ago, Mattias Burling said:

This.

No. No. No.

Its mainly this, with some minor corrections:

5 hours ago, Oliver Daniel said:

I can see the Canon bashing continuing. Doesn't bother me really. The fact that so many people are bitter and frustrated proves that Canon is a wanted entity we expect too much from Canon. Sure I'd like to see more ideas in their product line, but there's so many and better priced options from them, but it's not worth spending too much time talking about it. Yes, we are spoilt, because there are so many other options from other brands out there. 

2 hours ago, Andrew Reid said:

"When" not if? Really?

It's highly unlikely for Canon to do full frame 4K for $3k with CFast cards to support a chunky codec (otherwise why use CFast cards at all), when there is no Cinema EOS camera in that price range or remotely close with a similar spec.

Sorry but on this one you're dreaming Ebrahim.

+1

I don't know when they started thinking this way. They added 1080p from 5D2 all the way to the rebel...

They had 4K and the cinema line since 2012, since then... only the price of the 1DC just kept dropping, from what? $15000 to $7999? Now, instead of introducing a new DSLR altogether... lets add few features here, take away a few features there, call it a 1DX2 and price it at $5999, perfect! Now the 4K crowd can't complain. Might as well price the 1DC there and call it a day. EDITTED to add: do they even have a R&D or research analysis department?

But lets see... who knows right????

1 hour ago, DBounce said:

All will be revealed soon enough...

 

NICE!

Soon I will be right there too. Only different cams.

[independent]

I'd be surprised if the successor to the 5DIII has both dual pixel af and 4K. 

[Andrew Reid]

18 minutes ago, independent said:

I'd be surprised if the successor to the 5DIII has both dual pixel af and 4K. 

It will be a full frame 80D with moire and no articulated screen probably!