RED Scarlet-X or RED ONE MX (full kit) with lens

[enny]

Hi guys looking getting new camera 4k and i am looking at ursa 4k or 4.6 but buying it in Canada will cost me 7k plus other accessories will add up. But i can also go with MX fully loaded with one prime PL red lens 50mm for 10k or scarlet x for 9500 but no lens. I am looking for 7 years camera what would you guys do. i am also planing to rent prime lenses from project to project mostly personal projects

Red Scarlet

RED Scarlet MX - 250 hours - EXCELLENT CONDITION
2 REDVOLT batteries
1 x 64gb SSD Card (REDMAG)
5'' RED touch screen
pelican case
all other cables and accessories you'd expect with the above

 

And Red one MX

RED ONE MX Serial#0127
RED EVF
RED LCD
RED Power Supply Serial#098681
RED Battery Charger w/ (4) Batteries Serial#00319-4
RED Compact Flash 8GB Cards (x6)
RED Compact Flash 16GB Cards (x5)
RED Drive 320GB
Redrock Micro Mattebox 3 Stage Filter Tray for 19mm Rods
Element Technica Breakout Box
Allstar A-Mount with 6 Nikon to A-Mount adapters
Allstar PL Mount to A-Mount adapter
RED PL Mount
Pelican 1610 Case w/ foam (x2)
Base Production Pack:
The Base Production Pack includes:
(1) Universal Mount
(1) RED handle (Right)
(1) RED Bottom Plate
(1) Shoulder Dovetail
(1) Top Mount
(1) Top Handle
(1) RED Cradle (including Battery Plate)
(2) 18'' Steel Rods
(2) 12" Steel Rods

[Jimmy]

That scarlet kit is barebones.... isn't the raven kit a similar price? You'll need more media and power, possibly evf?

[enny]

22 minutes ago, Jimmy said:

That scarlet kit is barebones.... isn't the raven kit a similar price? You'll need more media and power, possibly evf?

yeah scarlet is bare bone but small factor is nice, but mx comes fully loaded and with lens. And i am not sure is scarlet can shoot 120fps

[IronFilm]

I'd never drop a large chunk of change on a camera and expect it to still be relevant in 7yrs.

 

On of many other possible alternatives instead:

Instead buy a Panasonic G7 for a tiny tiny fraction of that amount. Invest the rest. In two years time buy a Panasonic GH6. Three years after that buy a GH8, etc...

[jgharding]

Scarlet is nicer to use, but you'll need to add more kit to that package. It can do 60fps in 2k crop. 4k tops out at 30fps.

The One package is very complete, can do higher speeds (120fps 2K crop) but is obviously even older and bigger.

Both are sill very much relevant. The image still knocks seven shades out of most consumer gear, we're talking 4k raw here. But of course they're big and bulky and not very friendly to the wallet once you start adding bits. you'll have to make the call. I went Scarlet despite the lack of high speed, just because it's smaller and easier to use.

A handheld setup in a cage can vary from 5-7kg though so know what you're getting in to! Good luck!

[mkabi]

4 hours ago, IronFilm said:

I'd never drop a large chunk of change on a camera and expect it to still be relevant in 7yrs.

Not true. Thats like saying that if someone lent you a 10 year old Arri, you won't try it out cause you have a Gh4.

If you can afford it, buy it... 

Some people can afford a Mercedes, so go for a Mercedes... don't be discouraged cause your friend who can only afford a Toyota is telling you to buy a Toyota. Yes. both cars get you from point A to point B.

Also, most people are bogged down because they are unhappy with the current gear that they are shooting with... get top of the line, shoot everything that you want to shoot.... make it meaningful... instead of wasting time looking at gear and comparing gear... its a waste of money if you are going to buy it and put it in your closet to collect dust. Time waste & money waste.

[neosushi]

I have never been a big fan of the scarlet image... have never seen anything from it that really had the magic of the Red One Mx... - and yeah I know it's suppose to be the same sensor and everything... But still it always feels like the Red One MX has this special mojo...

[Nikkor]

Seven years...

[SR]

Ursa would be a no-go for me, given its high frequency of negative reviews from users. So it'll have to be Red. But if it were really up to me, I'd wait a month for the Kinefinity Terra.

[IronFilm]

Hell Yeah wait for the Kinefinity Terra 5K!

[jgharding]

3 hours ago, neosushi said:

I have never been a big fan of the scarlet image... have never seen anything from it that really had the magic of the Red One Mx... - and yeah I know it's suppose to be the same sensor and everything... But still it always feels like the Red One MX has this special mojo...

Well it's not just supposed to be... It is the same sensor! 

[jax_rox]

10 hours ago, mkabi said:

Not true. Thats like saying that if someone lent you a 10 year old Arri, you won't try it out cause you have a Gh4.

If you can afford it, buy it... 

Some people can afford a Mercedes, so go for a Mercedes... don't be discouraged cause your friend who can only afford a Toyota is telling you to buy a Toyota. Yes. both cars get you from point A to point B.

Also, most people are bogged down because they are unhappy with the current gear that they are shooting with... get top of the line, shoot everything that you want to shoot.... make it meaningful... instead of wasting time looking at gear and comparing gear... its a waste of money if you are going to buy it and put it in your closet to collect dust. Time waste & money waste.

Well, considering an Arri from 10 years ago would be a D20 - there would actually be a lot of benefits to using the GH4, depending on what you're shooting. The D20 has a nice sensor and can give you a nice image, sure - but the mucking around to get that into some sort of workable format and workable image is ridiculous. The camera has been discontinued, and even its successor has been discontinued. How easy will it be to find parts if something goes wrong? 

It's actually more like saying 'I'm not going to spend money on a 10 year old camera that's been long discontinued, when I can spend the same or less on a camera that will give me an image that's nearly as good, and be 10x easier to work with, and is newer, so is likely to stay relevant for a bit longer.'

You should only ever consider buying a camera if you can be confident you'll be able to make a return on it within 18 months. The technology moves so quickly these days that a 7 year old camera becomes irrelevant very quickly.

Not to mention, the RED One is already 8 years old. To expect it to continue to hold up in another 7 years is naivety. Would you call the Sony F900 still relevant?

Unless you've just got money to blow (in which case just buy something, why are you asking), you should be pretty certain you can pay it off within 18 months. If you need a camera that's going to attempt to stay relevant for the next 7 years, you're going to need to buy a relatively new, relatively expensive camera now, and even then you'll likely be disappointed if you really can only pay the camera off over 7 years.

--

On the question of RED One vs RED Scaret - the Scarlet is by far a better camera. But the ROne kit is pick up and shoot, whereas the Scarlet one you're going to need all sorts of other things.

If I were you, I might think about something like an FS5 - gives you pretty good quality, soon to give you raw, can have a PL mount put on it, is 4k, pretty new, etc etc. Plus you can put cheap lenses and expensive lenses on it.. I think overall you'd probably be happier. The FS700 has been able to stay somewhat relevant thanks to its raw recording (though it is still only four years old). Otherwise, maybe a second hand F5. You'll probably only get the body, but that's essentially what you're getting with the Scarlet anyway.

It doesn't necessarily have the name recognition of RED, but realistically you're not going to book jobs based on the fact that you own an 8 year old camera. Maybe if you can find the money to upgrade the Scarlet to a Dragon sensor..

[M Carter]

Man, the Red One has made some pretty footage - but I wouldn't spend much more than for a high-end DSLR setup for one - that's just me, but if at some point it needs some repair and there's no parts or service, you're stuck. And that windowed sensor is crazy limiting in many scenarios.

The "investing in a camera" is a personal thing too. I bought a Panasonic Ac-130 like 6 or 7 years ago (roght when it came out) for an overseas gig. It paid for itself in one weekend. I still use the damn thing when a client says "can you shoot this big event/party/whatever" (I just don't say no to a good client, and hey, my day rate to go shoot a company picnic or ribbon cutting? yeah.). And every time, I think "I forgot how kinda badass this thing is". You get every shot, no dicking around. For a small-chip camera, the footage just looks pretty as hell. Who'd-a-thought that after all these years and 4K and full-frame and 1.8 glass and so on? So yes, it was an insanely good "investment" for $4k or so.

But for the cash you intend to spend - if you just can't rent - I'd stay as modern as possible. 4K is great - for some things. After buying 8 terrabytes of drives and still running out of space, I only use 4K for interviews or reframing and for effects work. But I wouldn't give it up, it's kinda life-changing. I'd keep that on your list. But do you need raw and gobs of DR right now? Are you shooting a lot of well-paying gigs or can you wait a year and get by with something and see what comes to market without a big compromise?

If you have time, I'd see how the Ursa mini matures - BM is notorious for firmware making the stuff useable. On paper the thing looks awesome, and it may mature into something great. (And have you seen the NX1 vs ursa mini comparisons? Gulp…) There's no perfect system out there. 

[jgharding]

M Carter makes a good point there: I got one for a film project, as in feature, as it's cheaper than hiring when you include all the testing etc.

So do consider why you want a cinema cam. They are brilliant images and the fact that you can now own them is quite amazing. They are also rather temperamental things that were designed to be used in a professional environment where they can be serviced and so on. Be sure to think it all thorugh!

Scarlet is less likely to go wrong IMHO, but you will need more stuff. At least a v-lovk or goldmount battery plate and batteries, as redvolts won't last, and some more media, which are very very expensive.

One should remember though: only Red have Redcode, and that's still the best for 4K footage. MANAGABLE FILE SIZE RAW MAYHEM!

[Kurtisso]

On May 11, 2016 at 11:46 AM, SR said:

Ursa would be a no-go for me, given its high frequency of negative reviews from users. So it'll have to be Red. But if it were really up to me, I'd wait a month for the Kinefinity Terra.

I've used the Ursa mini and I was not impressed. I like the Red One image more than the Scarlet. The Scarlet package will definitely need more storage. Kinefinity makes some rockin cams.The Terra 5k sounds pretty darn great in concept and specs if you're willing to wait and see. Could be worth the wait!

I'm going to shamelessly/shamefully self-promote now. 

Buuuuut if you don't want to wait, my KineMAX 6K is for sale. It rocks. I don't know if 6K raw and 100 fps @4K raw will be good enough in 7 years because who knows, maybe we'll just plug our brains into computers for infiniteK resolution and time-shifting abilities for infiniteFPS slowmo. 

 

[Cinegain]

Wouldn't people just buy the Terra 6 or 5K for less and get some add-ons themselves? I think that should come out around that price or even less for something new or what am I missing here?

[Jimmy]

4 hours ago, Cinegain said:

Wouldn't people just buy the Terra 6 or 5K for less and get some add-ons themselves? I think that should come out around that price or even less for something new or what am I missing here?

This is available now

[Kurtisso]

5 hours ago, Cinegain said:

Wouldn't people just buy the Terra 6 or 5K for less and get some add-ons themselves? I think that should come out around that price or even less for something new or what am I missing here?

Compressed .krw raw is not uncompressed raw. I don't have a Terra 6k for sale.

Terra 6k is the most comparable. $9000 without EF - kinemount and  kineEnhancer. Add in the proper media storage. Are you sure the price is less? (it's not...)

 If you tally up all the things I am including using the ole innnnnernet I think you will find that number to be more than what I am asking for my virtually brand new wares. And you know, I never said I wasn't open to hearing out an offer.

Cheers.

[Cinegain]

Alright. Touché.

[Laurier]

With the red mx sensor you have a nice look/colors out of the camera , redcode is fantastic in term of data management honestly .

The red one can have a m42/nikon mount for cheap and you can get cheap glass. 

Consumer product are consumer product , today you have a lot for the money, but you still usually have poor codec / dynamic range / colors compared to even older equipement .

 

For still, is use a mamiya ZD , it s a 22 megapixel medium format camera , it s native iso 50, it s slower than any new dslr and it s 10 years old .

But it was more than 15k when released and and paid 2k for it couple of month ago, but in term of highlight handling / image quality / look it s just way better than any sub 3/4k usd camera on the market today.

But that thing is made to be use in pro environment , with flash/lighting equipment ect.

 

If you want something easy to use / fast and your clients are low budget , go with the consumer grade stuff , then upgrade regularly.

If you want to get higher clients invest in entry pro stuff, or second hand high end .

If you plan to shoot fashion / music video I would avoid the red mx and the scarlet because of the lack of 4k slow mo.

Personally I pre ordered a kinefinity terra 5k , with the speedbooster you get T2 zoom and the vistavision look on a native iso 800 camera . raw/pro res and 4k 100 fps .