BlackMagic Micro Cinema Update?

[mercer]

1 hour ago, Cinegain said:

But basically, you might as well shoot with the BMPCC... given you have your own workarounds for the battery life and don't need the 60p per se?

I don't know... The 60p alone is worth the upgrade, if you ask me. I'd rather it have a built in screen, but a cheap 3.5 in EVF will do the trick and still keep the real estate small. 

Also, you must have good eyes because I don't notice any of those things.

And it's kinda not cool to nitpick the images Zak graciously shared.

He said they are a couple grabs from a paid gig he is doing. Doubtful his client will see your comment, but still...

[Mattias Burling]

5 hours ago, Cinegain said:

-- If you hawkeye it, the top grab has somehing funny (disco colors) going on with the left zipper as well as the edges of the open space with the jacket (left red, right blueish). Interesting.

Thats the infamous Moire from the HD Blackmagic cameras, so that would be the same on the pocket as well.
The BMPCC/BMCC/BMMCC Moire is sneaky, usually not a problem, but when it strikes its very strong.

[jhnkng]

I picked mine up last week, and I've not had the chance to shoot anything worth showing, but I'm loving the form factor. I frankensteined a rig together out of bits I had thinking I would get a cage or something, but it turned out so well that I'm keeping it the way it is. 

It's basically built on a long Manfrotto plate, with a bunch of rod clamps and 1/4in screws, with a single 15mm rod that runs over the top where I mount my DP4. The DP4 has side 1/4in sockets so I've put a hot shoe screw on one side with a rubber washer which holds it in place via friction, so I can change the angle of the screen with one hand. I also broke out the soldering iron and made an expansion box with an on/off button for stop/start, and two push buttons to control other stuff (I've mapped mine to white balance and shutter angle). I've put a handle on the right hand side and it's really comfortable to use at chest level. I can also mount my Atomos Power Station to the back, which makes for a nicer balance if I'm using a heavier lens. With the Power Station you can even pop it on the shoulder... for a short time (the Power Station sits on the shoulder, there's no padding or anything but it's totally doable for a few minutes at a time).

Hopefully I can get out there this weekend and use this thing!

[mercer]

This monitor looks interesting. It doesn't get great reviews, but the form factor is exactly what I'm looking for. If they made one in a 3.5" model I'd be sold.

 

55 minutes ago, jhnkng said:

I picked mine up last week, and I've not had the chance to shoot anything worth showing, but I'm loving the form factor. I frankensteined a rig together out of bits I had thinking I would get a cage or something, but it turned out so well that I'm keeping it the way it is. 

It's basically built on a long Manfrotto plate, with a bunch of rod clamps and 1/4in screws, with a single 15mm rod that runs over the top where I mount my DP4. The DP4 has side 1/4in sockets so I've put a hot shoe screw on one side with a rubber washer which holds it in place via friction, so I can change the angle of the screen with one hand. I also broke out the soldering iron and made an expansion box with an on/off button for stop/start, and two push buttons to control other stuff (I've mapped mine to white balance and shutter angle). I've put a handle on the right hand side and it's really comfortable to use at chest level. I can also mount my Atomos Power Station to the back, which makes for a nicer balance if I'm using a heavier lens. With the Power Station you can even pop it on the shoulder... for a short time (the Power Station sits on the shoulder, there's no padding or anything but it's totally doable for a few minutes at a time).

Hopefully I can get out there this weekend and use this thing!

Crafty. The rubber washer was a great idea. 

[Turboguard]

Zak, how big are the DNG's in 60fps RAW? Same as BMPCC?

[Zak Forsman]

No you can only shoot 60p using RAW 3:1. So they're a third the size right?

[John Emery]

7 hours ago, mercer said:

This monitor looks interesting. It doesn't get great reviews, but the form factor is exactly what I'm looking for. If they made one in a 3.5" model I'd be sold.

 

I had it, and it's terrible compared to other options!! It is a smart design but poorly executed. Mine didn't flip properly (half of the time the image staid upside down) and they didn't answer to my emails. And it's really low res (I got a MustHD and the difference was huge). I would get a Aputure FineHD V2 if I was buying now, best bang for buck if you don't want a recorder and you like big monitors.

This is my setup...

Attaching the mini plate to the monitor makes the setup fast and easy and it all fits in a small cheap Amazon camera bag.

The best thing is that when you block the tripod head (Mantona 18008) that holds the monitor (MustHD) it's feels like a handle, and it's quite comfy to hold with one hand and pull focus with the other. It's like holding an inverse Bolex D16... I really like it!

All I need is a cage to protect the cameras HDMI input.

 

[Turboguard]

14 minutes ago, Zak Forsman said:

No you can only shoot 60p using RAW 3:1. So they're a third the size right?

700kb?

Could you do 1:1 Raw to another source?

[mercer]

14 minutes ago, John Emery said:

I had it, and it's terrible compared to other options!! It is a smart design but poorly executed. Mine didn't flip properly (half of the time the image staid upside down) and they didn't answer to my emails. And it's really low res (I got a MustHD and the difference was huge). I would get a Aputure FineHD V2.

This is my setup...

Attaching the mini plate to the monitor makes the setup fast and easy and it all fits in a small cheap Amazon camera bag.

The best thing is that when you block the tripod head (Mantona 18008) that holds the monitor (MustHD) it's feels like a handle, and it's quite comfy to hold with one hand and pull focus with the other. It's like holding an inverse Bolex D16... I really like it! All I need is a cage to protect the cameras HDMI input.

 

That's a nice set up... Using the monitor mount as a handle is ingenious... Like a DIY steadicam. I'll probably get the Lilliput 5" monitor and then sell that once the Ikan VL35 3.5" monitor is released. I have a design in my head that will mimic a tilt LCD screen on mirrorless cameras by basically attaching a hinge to the top of the monitor and the other side to the top of the cage so it can swivel up and down 90 degrees directly behind the camera. I want to keep it as small as possible... Especially since a lot of the buttons are a little hard to access... Or so I hear?

16 minutes ago, Zak Forsman said:

No you can only shoot 60p using RAW 3:1. So they're a third the size right?

You can shoot 60p in prores, right?

[gsenroc]

3 hours ago, John Emery said:

I had it, and it's terrible compared to other options!! It is a smart design but poorly executed. Mine didn't flip properly (half of the time the image staid upside down) and they didn't answer to my emails. And it's really low res (I got a MustHD and the difference was huge). I would get a Aputure FineHD V2 if I was buying now, best bang for buck if you don't want a recorder and you like big monitors.

This is my setup...

Attaching the mini plate to the monitor makes the setup fast and easy and it all fits in a small cheap Amazon camera bag.

The best thing is that when you block the tripod head (Mantona 18008) that holds the monitor (MustHD) it's feels like a handle, and it's quite comfy to hold with one hand and pull focus with the other. It's like holding an inverse Bolex D16... I really like it!

All I need is a cage to protect the cameras HDMI input.

 

I'm doing exactly the same with a VS-2 FineHD. It's very nice to use it this way. Your HDMI cable looks nice, where can I find one?

[Zak Forsman]

3 hours ago, mercer said:

You can shoot 60p in prores, right?

yeah. i prefer shooting RAW though. and ProRes HQ and RAW 3:1 are in the same ballpark size-wise.

3 hours ago, Turboguard said:

Could you do 1:1 Raw to another source?

yes, RAW 1:1 is available for up to 30fps, I think. definitely for 23.976 and 24fps.

[mercer]

7 minutes ago, Zak Forsman said:

yeah. i prefer shooting RAW though. and ProRes HQ and RAW 3:1 are in the same ballpark size-wise.

yes, RAW 1:1 is available for up to 30fps, I think. definitely for 23.976 and 24fps.

3:1 Raw and ProRes HQ are similar file sizes? I did not know that. With the 3:1 do you still get the 13 stops of DR compared to ProRes HQ's 10 stops? Also, how is the post workflow with 3:1 Raw? I assume you are using Resolve, but I don't have the strongest of computers, is the Raw easy to process with FCPX?

[Zak Forsman]

Unlike regular RAW, RAW 3:1 requires Resolve, unfortunately. And it does require a hefty graphics card. I just upgraded mine to be able to work without memory errors.

I don't think ProRes limits your dynamic range. It's 10bit so more information is being thrown away. But 10bit is still great.

[mercer]

58 minutes ago, Zak Forsman said:

Unlike regular RAW, RAW 3:1 requires Resolve, unfortunately. And it does require a hefty graphics card. I just upgraded mine to be able to work without memory errors.

I don't think ProRes limits your dynamic range. It's 10bit so more information is being thrown away. But 10bit is still great.

Yeah, sorry. Had a brain fart and confused DR and color bit depth.

[John Emery]

2 hours ago, gsenroc said:

I'm doing exactly the same with a VS-2 FineHD. It's very nice to use it this way. Your HDMI cable looks nice, where can I find one?

I'm thinking of upgrading to a VS-2 for false color mainly. Any flaws so far? 

The HDMI is this...

https://www.amazon.co.uk/CSL-Ethernet-compliant-1080p--Channel/dp/B00NEMIY2M/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1463186321&sr=8-4&keywords=hdmi+cable+0+5m

5 hours ago, mercer said:

That's a nice set up... Using the monitor mount as a handle is ingenious... Like a DIY steadicam. I'll probably get the Lilliput 5" monitor and then sell that once the Ikan VL35 3.5" monitor is released. I have a design in my head that will mimic a tilt LCD screen on mirrorless cameras by basically attaching a hinge to the top of the monitor and the other side to the top of the cage so it can swivel up and down 90 degrees directly behind the camera. I want to keep it as small as possible... Especially since a lot of the buttons are a little hard to access... Or so I hear?

Sounds interesting...

Playing around with the buttons can get a little tricky (mainly because of the size), but I'm sure we'll get used to it.

[gsenroc]

6 hours ago, John Emery said:

I'm thinking of upgrading to a VS-2 for false color mainly. Any flaws so far? 

The HDMI is this...

https://www.amazon.co.uk/CSL-Ethernet-compliant-1080p--Channel/dp/B00NEMIY2M/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1463186321&sr=8-4&keywords=hdmi+cable+0+5m

Sounds interesting...

Playing around with the buttons can get a little tricky (mainly because of the size), but I'm sure we'll get used to it.

Thanks for the link.

The VS-2 is working fine for me so far. False color seems ok and consistant. However histogram is somewhat strange and different than what the Pocket shows, hight light info seems capped and not complete. I haven't tried the histogram with the Micro yet.

Some bad things:

The color of this monitor is bad, it's way too green by default and I couldn't calibrate it to a point that I'm satisfied. I shoot Raw so it still seems ok to me.

Furthermore, for some reason, the shadow/highlight in the monitor is kind of mushy, hardly any detail there. I guess it has something to do with the dynamic range of the monitor or the signal procressing is quirky.

My feeling about this monitor is that it's good for focusing and exposure, the rest is bad. For the price it's quite ok though. They promised for firmware upgrade but the link never works...

[Mattias Burling]

Been offered a Micro and Video Assist for the price of just the Micro. It was tempting at first but I can't see any reason accept 60p to get it over a pocket.

Its bigger (with a screen), more expensive and the form factor isnt for me (never use gimbals or drones).

So you guys that has it, am I missing something? Is the image nicer than the pocket?

[Zak Forsman]

yes, the image is nicer than the Pocket. but marginally so. you'd have to know your Pocket really well to pick up the improvements in the Micro's image. improved rolling shutter, improved color rendition, a little less noise, and truly... that 60p renders beautifully, the motion cadence in general is very refined -- none of that weird double image ghosting you get with DSLRs. my GH4 had it, drove me crazy.

I can understand not liking the form factor if the point and shoot style of the Pocket is closer to the ideal. But I love having "micro brain" that is the size of a rubik's cube, making it extremely versatile. I dont use gimbals or drones either. 

[squig]

6 hours ago, Mattias Burling said:

Been offered a Micro and Video Assist for the price of just the Micro. It was tempting at first but I can't see any reason accept 60p to get it over a pocket.

Its bigger (with a screen), more expensive and the form factor isnt for me (never use gimbals or drones).

So you guys that has it, am I missing something? Is the image nicer than the pocket?

The 5D mk3 raw has a nicer image and more usable dynamic range. 60p and 13ms rolling shutter are the reasons why I haven't sold my micro yet. The form factor does make it handy to have in my bag as a b-cam, but I'm thinking about just buying a 2nd 5D mk3 instead.

[Mattias Burling]

4 hours ago, Zak Forsman said:

yes, the image is nicer than the Pocket. but marginally so. you'd have to know your Pocket really well to pick up the improvements in the Micro's image. improved rolling shutter, improved color rendition, a little less noise, and truly... that 60p renders beautifully, the motion cadence in general is very refined -- none of that weird double image ghosting you get with DSLRs. my GH4 had it, drove me crazy.

I can understand not liking the form factor if the point and shoot style of the Pocket is closer to the ideal. But I love having "micro brain" that is the size of a rubik's cube, making it extremely versatile. I dont use gimbals or drones either. 

 

23 minutes ago, squig said:

The 5D mk3 raw has a nicer image and more usable dynamic range. 60p and 13ms rolling shutter are the reasons why I haven't sold my micro yet. The form factor does make it handy to have in my bag as a b-cam, but I'm thinking about just buying a 2nd 5D mk3 instead.

Thanks for the input guys. It does sound like there is a little bit to gain. But is the size really that much smalle? From looking at pictures it looks pretty much the same size as the pocket and with a screen its bigger.

I will think about it a bit, but its tempting again.